Kathi:Quote Mike,Someone could be the firstborn of ten children but nine of them could have been adopted.  Get it.  It doesn't mean that the firstborn was adopted does it?But it does mean the firstborn is a part of the “group of those ten children” doesn't it?Kathi:Quote Yes, it does and this proves it:Col 1:16call things have been created t…[Read more]

Quote (martian @ Sep. 21 2010,03:00)I have dealt with your scriptures on Phil several times.If Jesus being in the form of God proves his pre-existence then according to that “truth” so did Adam. The word “image” as in created in the image of God means form. Adam was created in the form of God.As to his being in the likeness of men so am I?  Did I…[Read more]

Quote (martian @ Sep. 21 2010,02:25)As far as us not understanding every reason why God does a thing, that is true. However, God is just and fair as you have pointed out. He would not send an example and command us to follow in like manner then give that example knowledge or experiences (not available to us) that impact the way he did things. That…[Read more]

Hi Kathi,I had it reversed.  You implied that maybe these men you quote were the laborors God sent and akin to the 70 Jesus sent out into the world first.  THEN I posted the scriptures that show the apostacy was already present in the apostle's lifetimes.  In my mind the posts were the other way around……I'm sorry.  Kathi:Quote Mike, you sai…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 20 2010,15:33)So, do you have this knowledge or not Mike?  You seem to flip flop.  On one thread you will post this verse and with your post to me here, it is as if you are totally unaware.Now, does the verse speak of two involved or one, Mike?  One God and one Lord=two persons.I have the knowledge I gained from the sc…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 20 2010,14:45)if the phrase was 'heir of all creation' would you insist that meant He was part of all creation?  If not, then why is it different with the word 'firstborn?'Really Kathi?  If the verse said “Black”, then I would believe “Black”.  But it doesn't…..it says “White”.Kathi:Quote This verse could mean the be…[Read more]

Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 20 2010,14:44)mikeyou see how Kathy uses certain of your comments were you show the folly of some thinking to someone else and cut it and paste it to twisted the faith you preach in Christ,Hi Pierre,Yeah, I noticed.     I posted it to show that just because these guys were EARLY church fathers doesn't mean they weren't a…[Read more]

Kathi, In Acts 4, Peter and John pray to God.  This is the first line of their prayer.  Tell me, who do you think THEY thought the Creator was?24When they heard this, they raised their voices together in prayer to God. “Sovereign Lord,” they said, “you made the heaven and the earth and the sea, and everything in them.Your early church fathers s…[Read more]

Kathi:Quote Mike,Where did I ever say that because Eusebius said it therefore it is?I apologize, for you did not say those words.  What I meant, and what I should have posted, was “You ACT LIKE if Eusebius said it……”Kathi, I'm tired and have no patience for these word games tonight.Scripture says in two different places that Jesus is a part…[Read more]

Okay Gene, Finally something to work with…..let's do it.Quote You mean like the (SEED) of the women Shall brise the Head of the serpent.Yes, Jesus was the seed of Eve ACCORDING TO THE FLESH.  Tell me how that says he didn't also pre-exist his flesh.Quote You men like the scripture where Moses said GOD would raise up a “PROPHET” Like Him from…[Read more]

Quote (Baker @ Sep. 20 2010,10:51)Mike! All I am doing on this tread is laughing….. To ignore all those Scriptures simple makes no sense. And then for Gene to put the trinity along side with the preexsisting is crazy. He did that we me too. Since I came out of the Catholic Church and taught all of our children their doctrines, I know that…[Read more]

Quote (barley @ Sep. 20 2010,00:47)Mikeboll,The scriptures say that God killed Uzziah, but that is a Hebrew idiom.  A figure of speech.  It is the idiom of permission.  God permitted it to happen.   It is the devil who has the power of death.So the angel that slaughtered 185,000 Assyrians was one of Satan's demons, not an angel that God sen…[Read more]

Quote (barley @ Sep. 20 2010,00:20)You have not been taught the simplest of truths about God's loving care for us. Well now you have some of these basics.I would advise you to learn about God's wondrous care for you before you venture out into subjects you have not yet been instructed in.barleyIsn't that a little cocky and arrogant of you? Who…[Read more]

Quote (barley @ Sep. 20 2010,00:20)I am sure you have some. But as Gene clearly pointed out and I concur, your focus is too narrow. You only see what you want to see. You see only one branch in a forest full of trees.And that's exactly what I think about you guys. “You're wrong and I'm right” is not going to get us anywhere.Scripture,…[Read more]

Quote (barley @ Sep. 20 2010,00:20)MB,Since JC was the offspring of David does that not imply that 1.  David preexisted Jesus Christ?2.  Jesse who was David's father preexisted David by one generation?3.   Jesse preexisted Jesus Christ by two generations?Hi barley,1.  Yes2.  Yes3.  Well, not 2 generations, but Yes that Jesse pre-existed Jesus…[Read more]

Quote (barley @ Sep. 19 2010,23:26)Genesis 3:15,  Jesus Christ was foretold.  David was not.  Jesse was not.   Jesus Christ is the central figure of our salvation, not David.  David knew this, even before JC existed.  David believed in a future (to him) savior that was foretold of long before David existed.  Yet David was told that the savior…[Read more]

I'm going to start calling you “Repeat”, Gene.  That's all you ever do.Gene:Quote Mike………What martian has said is right brother if you put all scripture together concerning the Man Jesus you should see clearly that Jesus never preexisted his berth on earth except in the For Knowledge and Plan God.Aren't those last 10 words of Phil 2:7 a…[Read more]

Quote (shimmer @ Sep. 20 2010,09:07)Good verses there Mike, as Nick would say…the apostasy started early.Hi Shimmer,It's clear that you got the point I was making.    The apostacy started while the actual apostles were still alive, and continued to the point that some of us consider Mary, a mere human, as the mother of our God…. a God who is s…[Read more]

Quote (barley @ Sep. 20 2010,00:20)God knows that I need a mode of transportation that will allow me to get to where He wants me to go in a manner befitting an ambassador for Christ.       You need a car, but the disciples were told to take no money, no walking stick, no food……not even sandals!  But God knows you NEED a car!   More latermike

Kathi:Quote Mike,Eusebius certainly did say that the Son and the Father were the creator so therefore, the Son was not a creation.  You say, “Eusebius said it, therefore it is.”  I say, “Scripture said it, therefore it is.”  Do you not see the difference?Kathi:Quote C'mon Mike, you know that the way Jesus is the Son of God is different than the wa…[Read more]