Kathi:  But none of them say that Jesus was made, sorry.

They actually do when you allow the scriptures to teach you instead of the other way around.

“the firstborn of every creature” 

“the beginning of the creation by God”

“God created me as the first of his works”

“before the mountains were made, I was given birth”

“his origin is from a…[Read more]

Jodi: So how do you address the fact that Jesus sits on an eternal throne according to the FLESH, where David foresaw that his flesh would not see decay?

Jesus’ flesh didn’t see decay.

Jodi:  He appeared to many and said he was not a spirit but of flesh and bones.

He was not a spirit at that time, but still had flesh and bones.  He was raised f…[Read more]

Berean: Mike

It refers to Jesus and not to Jerusalem
Jesus is our justice
And nothing else.
May God guide you.

It refers to Jesus in Jeremiah 33:16?  Show me.

In the meantime, which god are you asking to guide me?  There are, after all, myriads of myriads of them.  Are you requesting guidance for me from the Most High God of gods who created the…[Read more]

Kathi: Mike,

If neither of the two persons were considered “made” then it would be wrong to add the word “other.” Since the word “other” is not in the text, that demonstrates that neither person was made.

Great.  So now we just go back to those scriptures I posted earlier that clearly say Jesus was made, and it becomes clear that all OTHER thi…[Read more]

Berean: BROTHERS AND SISTERS

LET US GO NO FURTHER THAN WHAT THE SCRIPTURE SAYS

FORMALLY DECLARE.

JESUS IS OUR JUSTICE

Jeremiah 33
…15In those days and at that time will I bring forth the seed of righteousness to David; and he shall execute justice and equity in the land. 16 In those days Judah shall be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell saf…

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Mike:  As I’ve already pointed out, in your scenario, the original cell represents the Father.

Kathi:  That would be impossible for the original cell to only represent the father since the meaning of father requires the existence of an offspring. The original cell would either represent the father AND the son or the potential father and son (as…

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Mike:  Kathi, can you give me just ONE scriptural reason why Jesus absolutely CAN’T be the first creation of his and our God, Jehovah?

Kathi:  Here is ONE scriptural reason:

John 1:3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

Okay, let’s compare…

Acts 4:24

When they heard thi…

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Kathi: My answer: To provide a real life example of something that demonstrates how through the asexual reproduction  process of binary fission, the simplest parent/offspring relationship which, according to a first and only generation, demonstrates that the age of the substance in both is identical in age and type. No one can say that the son ca…

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Jodi:  I’d first like to say a correction is needed by what you said, “Jesus IS a man who was foreordained by God”, so maybe we don’t actually agree, if you do not believe that Jesus IS still a man?

No, Jesus is no longer flesh and blood – for those things cannot enter nor inherit the Kingdom of God.

And no, I don’t believe that words that Jehov…[Read more]

Kathi: …did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped…

Mike asked:You posted that, Kathi.  What do those last words mean to you?
There is the begetter and the begotten, both identical in form and type, different in relationship.

Identical?  Scripture please?

Kathi:  Now are you gonna admit that the cell theory portrays two identic…

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Kathi:  If God spoke through Moses, that proves that Moses existed, etc. To state that all things were made through the Son, that proves that the Son existed while all things were made through the Son.

Excellent!

Kathi:  Understand? Two wills united as one united will still realizes two distinct wills, but both are in agreement.

Two wills necessitates two persons.  Two persons necessitates creators – not creator.  Now go re-read the prayer in Acts 4.  The apostles clearly prayed TO a single Creator who make the heaven, the earth, the sea, and eve…[Read more]

Lightenup: I propose that the original, in the case of an eternal source, is either the eternally existing father and son where the son is existing but not yet begotten…

Why would you propose something like that?  Scriptural reason?  Or personal?  “Today I have begotten a son who already existed from eternity inside of me.”  Hmm.…[Read more]

Lightenup:  And I will dwell in your midst, and you shall know that the LORD of hosts has sent me to you.

Two different persons.  The LORD of hosts has sent someone other than the LORD of hosts.

Berean: Amen

Words’ S song (Héritage singers)

Because of love He left His throne
And made this Earth His home
He did it willingly
For you and me
With heaven left behind
He came to save all mankind
From sin and shame
He could have walked away
But instead He chose
To stay upon that tree
And take a crown of thrones for me
Because of lov…

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Lightenup: Good words Berean!

This passage is so wonderful:
Philippians 2

Be Like Christ

…did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped…

You posted that, Kathi.  What do those last words mean to you?

Gene:  Mike…. I think you and Jodi do agree I also agree with you both.

We all agree that Jesus was a man who was foreordained by God.  Many different scriptures make it clear that Jesus existed prior to this though – and so you and I and Jodi agree on some things, but not on others.

Berean:  Edj

Where you have seen one verse

that say that it is By crucifixion THE LORD MADE THE WORLDS ?

I AM WAITING 👤. ….

 

Ed:  Hi Berean,

“the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world” (Rev 13:8)

“Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born,
and for this cause came I into the world” (John 18:37)…

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Ed: Hi Mike,

I’m glad to see you’re back posting again!

What ever happened to Pierre?

Thanks, Ed.  Pierre was suffering with pancreatic cancer for years, and I think he finally succumbed to it.  He was on another discussion forum with me and Dig4Truth for a while, and then just “disappeared” a couple of years back.  I believe he has passed…[Read more]

Berean:  Heb.1…

Who(Jesus Christ) being the brightness of his glory(of God the Father), and the express image of his person(of the Father)

Heb 1:  God (one entity) spoke to us THROUGH mere mortal men in the past.

God (one entity) spoke to us THROUGH his son and servant (Jesus) in these latter days.

God (one entity) appointed this servant (…[Read more]