Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 25 2010,09:38)Now the thing that i dont understand. You state that I am right, about that Micah 5:2 doesnt suggest that Jesus was created, yet in the same breathe you say that he had a beginning.Whats the difference?Nevermind for now.

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 25 2010,09:34)7.Its not I who gives credit to Jesus as the creatorbut scritpures that state he created. I mean i dont know what else you want me to say?I want you to show me one scripture that says Jesus “CREATED” anything. And then show me how scripture lied when it says God created everything. And use the prayer in…[Read more]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 25 2010,09:28)6.Mike, Scripture says he is the Beginning. And Micah 5:2 never presents that Jesus had a “beginning” at a “certain” point in time. Even the Context of the Word “arche” represents the Fact that beginnings is not meant to present that Jesus was “caused to exist” but instead that he is “from” distant…[Read more]

SF:Quote 5. Actually Mike, There is only one beginning that started everything else. And that happen in Genesis 1:1Are you sure?  Because Job 38 says different:Job 38:4-7 NIV 4 “Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation?       Tell me, if you understand. 5 Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know!       Who stretched a measur…[Read more]

SF:Quote 4. Actually mike The very first claims you made that eternity was “peotitcs” for antiquity or a real long time ago. than later when shimmer made her post, you changed your mind. And what's wrong with that?  Shimmer showed scholarly thought that fits in with the circumstances, and I happened to think it makes perfect sense.  Why?  …[Read more]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 25 2010,08:52)2.The only reason why dont like when you cut up my posts because you ignore other valid points i made.It seems like you “dropped” “yalad” from your last rampage of posts??/ Sounds like a diversion to me, since you didnt answer my question. Actualy what scripture is saying is that “this Ruler will be born…[Read more]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 25 2010,08:48)The spin on scripture comes from yourself, and your conjecture that this verse implies that “Jesus the Ruler who will be BORN IN THE small bethlahem, whose beginnings/origins comes out from antiquity/Eternity/long time ago”None of this suggest he had a beginning nor that he was created. The Scripture is…[Read more]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 25 2010,09:42)Thats why God was So MAD at people for doing such a dumb thing. this is what Romans 1 refers to. 23And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.The Stupidity of HumanityYeah, one of my favorite all time…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 25 2010,08:47)Jesus, as the Son of God, is the 'extension' of God Himself in the distinct person of the Son, yet that distinct person is inseparable from God.Hi Kathi,That's trinitarian-style gobbledygook and gibberish. Is Jesus GOD HIMSELF, or is he NOT?And I'm trying to hear your song, but for some reason, it's taking…[Read more]

I'm not sure if anyone will buy into your “All the angels helped with creation, but only the prominent Son is mentioned in the credits” scheme.  Aside from the fact that it's not scriptural, you leave a gaping hole in it:  Why was Jesus the “prominent Son” in the first place before he came in the flesh?The following is the same scripture and q…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 25 2010,08:58)Mike,I think that the trouble you are having is in understanding that the Son humbled Himself to the Father and took on the form of a servant.So, was He always a bond-servant of God's or did He take the form of a bond-servant?  He wasn't emptied before He emptied Himself.Hi Kathi,Was Jesus raised back to…[Read more]

Quote (Baker @ Oct. 25 2010,10:04)…..Micah is an instants that you can see the difference.  Christ is standing in the strength of the LORD.  Almighty God……..Peace and Love IreneHi Irene,Beautiful!  You get the whole reason for the thread!  I believe that this is definitely a scripture that no trinitarian or “Jesus is God” believer can arg…[Read more]

I don't know about any “conundrums” as of yet.  But I do know the first hurdle you will have to jump is this one:JA:Quote Where you say that Jesus created 'everything…' it is not speaking of the sentient creatures, the Angels, the animal, Mankind? Again, you mind is slipping…First, I never said Jesus “created” anything at all.  We have but O…[Read more]

I'm waiting……………

Yes JA,Both Kathi and SF, who are NOT trinitarians, have trouble with Jesus being a separate being who is other than AND lessor to his God.mike

Let me expand on my thought Kathi. If Jesus has to shepherd the flock in the strength of his God, then Jesus is clearly someone OTHER THAN AND LESSOR TO his God, right?And this passage is about a time to come yet. We do not all live securely right now. This is about when God's Kingdom will be on earth, IMO. So this is AFTER Jesus has been…[Read more]

Hi Kathi,This was the question I asked:This Christ is clearly someone OTHER THAN and LESSOR TO his God. Is there anyone out there who can read verse 4 and still think “Jesus IS God”?Do you have an answer?mike

Kathi,Let's stop playing word games, okay? Do you think Jesus, as the Son of God is:A. An individual being who is the Son of God?B. The same exact being as God Himself?mike

Just answer the post, big guy.

Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 25 2010,07:29)Mike,I'm not saying that the Son 'reflects' the glory of God but IS the actual RADIANCE OF the glory of God and it is creation (not the Son) that reflects that radiance (the light of Christ).  The 'radiance' is the light from the light source…the 'light of light.'Read your bolded words above, Kathi. The…[Read more]