……..and by “SCRIPTURAL”, I mean, “Do these two scriptures themselves depict Jesus as someone OTHER THAN and LESSOR TO God?”mike

No Kathi,The NIV has it right in this case:11 All kings will bow down to him       and all nations will serve him.In fact, all major translations render it as “bowed”.  (NET, NIV, NASB, NLT, BBE, NRSV, KJV, NKJV. The NWT has “prostrate themselves”.)Did you forget that “proskuneo” CAN mean “worship”, but can also just mean “bowed down”?  [Read more]

Hi Kathi,You taunted me about all the times Jesus was “worshipped” after God perfomed a sign through him. Then you listed them……..great work! Now I have a game maybe you would like to play so your work wasn't for nothing. Let's start at the top of your list and go down, passage by passage, and using only scriptural information, try to…[Read more]

Quote (Baker @ Oct. 31 2010,06:01)That is making me rather sad………Peace and Love IreneMe too Irene.  I go through feelings of pity, sadness, and sometimes anger with her.It's frustrating to watch someone take scriptures meant to say one thing, and twist them into saying we have two Gods.I hope to see your input on my “Pre-existent Scriptural…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 31 2010,04:26)Mike,The 'traditions' of men claim that Jesus was equally God as the Father and always existed as a distinct person along with the Father.  I am not agreeing with the traditions of men.Again, you're leaving out words.  You probably REALLY meant to say:Mike,The 'traditions' of SOME men claim that Jesus was e…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 31 2010,04:19)Do you not understand that I am not a prophetess claiming NEW things but agreeing with OLD understanding?Hi Kathi,You left out two words at the end of your sentence.  Here, let me fix it for you:Do you not understand that I am not a prophetess claiming NEW things but agreeing with OLD understanding………OF MEN? mike

Hey Irene and Pierre,Will you folks help me with a project?  I'm starting a “Pre-existent Scripture Data-base” thread for us to referrence in these discussions.  I don't want any “chit-chat” on the thread, just post the scripture, complete with Book, chapter and verse.There are too many of them to keep track of in my head, and I find more all t…[Read more]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 31 2010,02:51)They can't even realize that all the scriptures they use can be taken in many different ways , that is why all the confusion exists,In actuality Gene, it is you guys who MUST take the scripture in a way opposite to what it really says to keep your doctrine. Thus begins the “confusion”. When it CLEARLY…[Read more]

Kerwin:Quote Mike Boll,Your interpretation of Philippians 2:6-7 ignores the context since Paul is using Jesus as an example of how the attitude of believers should be.  Form in verse is thus speaking of righteousness.  Context does not indicate what made in verse 7 means but we know from scripture Jesus was formed in his Mother's womb. Listen K…[Read more]

Kerwin:Quote It is not that hard to answer as Jesse the father of David called David his Lord as David was appointed King and not Jesse.Where is that in scripture?  And you miss the point Kerwin, just like the Pharisees.  The whole point of Jesus bringing this topic up was to show them that the Messiah was NOT the literal “son” of David, but s…[Read more]

No……..I don't see it. Tell me how I answered my own question. Or better yet, just DIRECTLY answer the DIRECT question I asked you. mike

Kathi:Quote THe point of this exercise was to demonstrate that the people were recognizing Jesus as coming from God and able to do the supernatural acts…they were seeing Him as a KING from heaven and not just another earthly king and they were responding in worship towards Him.No Kathi.  Like Nicodemus told Jesus, they were becoming convinced…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 31 2010,03:45)He doesn't have anyone worshiping Him as the Father but as the Messiah, Son of David, and the Son of God who the Father considers as much a part of Himself as His own Outstretched Arm, as His own Word, and as the radiance of His own glory.Hi Kathi,But are we to worship things OF God, or just God Himself? And…[Read more]

Quote (Baker @ Oct. 31 2010,01:38)Good Scripture, I find it amazing, in spite of it all , some still will worship Jesus.  In most Churches all you hear on Songs is Jesus, Jesus, Jesus…… chanting His name…..not any better the Catholic Church and the Rosary.Mat 15:9   But in vain they do worship me, teaching doctrines the commandments of m…[Read more]

Luke 4:8Jesus answered, “It is written: 'Worship the Lord your God and serve him only.' “Not one pen-stroke Kathi.

Kathi,NO ONE ever “Worshipped” ANYONE in front of the Pharisees in a “godly” way without something being said.Paul was a Pharisee who was turned to Christ.  And I showed you where he told the Jewish council that he only worships the same God they worship.Paul knew the difference between God and His Son.  He knew which ONE of them to worship.  …[Read more]

David……….Kathi's calling you!

Ezekiel 34:24 NIV I the LORD will be their God, and my servant David will be prince among them. I the LORD have spoken.Is this clear enough Kathi………….and SF, if he ever shows up. Jehovah will be their ONLY God.  But Jesus will be “prince among them”.  Do you see the contrast between them?  Only ONE of them is “their God”.peace and love,mike

Kathi,I'm done with the games for a while.  You are sounding like Gene explaining John 17:5: “Jesus was saying he wanted the glory that God had foreordained for him.  The glory that had just been sitting around in heaven waiting for him ever since he was a thought in God's head before the creation of the world.”This is exactly how I used YOU as a…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 30 2010,15:29)So if you still don't think that the Pharisees even minded at all that Jesus was given credit for opening the blind man's eyes, let alone worship, you are the one that is needing some wet clay, my friend.Really Kathi,And after reading this, and knowing how much of a thorn Jesus was in the Pharisees' sides, you…[Read more]