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[liljon]

Jesus is God otherwise thomas wouldnt have said so in John 20:28.

[liljon]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 22 2006,22:29)

Hi kenrch, Were these verses truly CHANGED? Or do the other versions honestly reflect alternative manuscript writings? KJV enthusiasts love to suggest that they have been altered, but usually not. NIV is another story at times.

True, you can't assume its always a change unless you prove it first.

[liljon]

Bible.ca shows the deception of the SYBTT booklet including the ECF quotes.

[liljon]

Are there any that say he was created. (Rev 3:14 have diff translations)?
Plus in John 8:58 he says he is eternal.
Also his name was the Eternal Father and even if it isn't ALL things were made thorugh him
John 1:3, Col1

[liljon]

Jesus was crucified on a cross. An inscription was found in 42 Ad.

[liljon]

The part about the ECF has no value at all because they misquoted and misrepresented every one of them. They also later on misquoted Ignatius

[liljon]

If Jesus was a spirit he would be deceiving thomas by manfested fake temporary bodies with nail holes in them.

Plus Jesus promised to resurrect his own body in John 2:19

[liljon]

wednesday will not work and simple looking at the gospels will show this .Jesus repeatedley said he would rise THE THIRD DAY.
http://www.bible.ca/d-3-days-and-3-nights.htm
Esther 4-5 will show that three days and three nights doesn't nescarily have to be 3 full twenty four hour days.

[liljon]

Jesus wasn't in the grave three 24 hours periods!
Luke 13 says he would reach his goal THE THIRD DAY. If he had stayed for 3 24 hr periods we would have been raised on The fourth.
Wednesday crucifixion is too early just by looking at the gospel accounts.

[liljon]

Jesus did not die on wednesday. It should be obivious from reading the gosples.
Luke 13:32 "Behold, I cast out demons and perform cures today and tomorrow ,and the third day I reach My goal."

http://www.bible.ca/d-3-days-and-3-nights.htm

Also

150AD JUSTIN: But Sunday is the day on which we hold our common assembly, because it is the first day of the week and Jesus our saviour on the same day rose from the dead. (First apology of Justin, Ch 68)
150AD JUSTIN: And on the day called Sunday there is a gathering together in the same place of all who live in a city or a rural district. … We all make our assembly in common on the day of the Sun, since it is the first day, on which God changed the darkness and matter and made the world, and Jesus Christ our Savior arose from the dead on the same day. For they crucified him on the day before Saturn's day, and on the day after (which is the day of the Sun the appeared to his apostles and taught his disciples these things. (Apology, 1, 67:1-3, 7; First Apology, 145 AD, Ante-Nicene Fathers , Vol. 1, pg. 186)

[liljon]

Proverbs is clearly allegorical and we all know wisdom is not a person. The holy spirit is a person in many places in the bible and spoke audibly to real people in a historical setting. To say that wisdom or anything else personified disqualifies the holy spirit from being person is not logic.

[liljon]

the spirit himself speaks
Acts 11:28 And rising up, one of them named Agabus, foretold by the Spirit…
Acts 13:2 Now as they were ministering to the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, “Now separate to Me Barnabas and Saul for the work which I have called them.”

[liljon]

http://www.bible.ca/trinity/trinity-holy-spirit.htm
The holy spirit is a person

[liljon]

The point im making is that Jesus is being called YHVH and so is the Holy spirit.

[liljon]

Romans 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and you believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved.

10 For with the heart one believes resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses, resulting in salvation.

11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him shall not be put to shame.”

12 For there is no difference between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord of all is rich to all who call upon Him.

13 For “whosoever shall call upon the name of the LORD shall be saved.”

14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear apart from a preacher?

Jesus is LORD
2 Cor 3:17 Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.
and so is the Spirit.

[liljon]

my point was that in the past and still today some christians practice things that are pagan in origin but teachings like immortal soul, trinity were not borrowed from paganism.

[liljon]

sultan, just because you say it is so doesn't make it true.

David,
Jesus was crucified on a cross http://www.truthnet.org/Christianity/Apologetics/newtestament10?
Also
Immortal Soul was not borrowed from paganism but was taken from the bible. The Trinity has its foundations within scripture.
You have given no proof of christinizing beliefs but only of practices.

[liljon]

sultan, how many gods? ONE not three. they are the same God. Also similarity doesn't mean copying. They are many other similarites in pagan religions.

[liljon]

There was already acceptence for the trinity and the son being equal essence in the christian community before nicea.

[liljon]

Whether cross or stake jesus died for us but evidence destroys the myth that jesus was on a stake. Also the trinity is not three gods so what does pagans worshipping 3 gods (and tons more) have to do with anything.

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