Mike,

Oh geez…

regarding your post:

LU:  Do you think that a member of a unity cannot serve that unity of which they are a member of? A pastor is a member of the body of Christ, a unity called the church. The pastor also serves the body of Christ, the unity of which he is a member of. This is simple.

Simple?  More like “simple-minded”. Will…

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Mike,

You said: No they don’t. That is a poor translation…

I used to think that too but reading the early church father’s writings, they quote it as the “Lamb slain before the foundation of the world” from what I remember so I go by that.

That doesn’t imply a continual slaying, Mike. I take it as a future event, the Son would become incarnate and…[Read more]

Mike,

You asked:

LU: Shoot me, I don’t care… The apostles prayed to YHVH, the unity of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit…
And do all three of those entities comprise ONE SINGULAR “Sovereign Lord” in your doctrine?

The prayer was to the Sovereign LORD (YHVH) and all three members, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit make up the fullness of the one So…[Read more]

Mike,

You quoted this:

“The arm of the Lord” is an idiom for “God’s great power” (as exemplified through Jesus’ miraculous signs). This response of unbelief is interpreted by the author as a fulfillment of the prophetic words of Isaiah (Isa 53:1). The phrase ὁ βραχίων κυρίου (Jo braciwn kuriou) is a figurative reference to God’s activity…

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Mike,

Regarding this:

LU: You can pray directly to Jesus…He is YHVH our Righteousness…  It’s ok.
Mike: It’s also apparently okay to pray directly to the city of Jerusalem, who is also YHVH our Righteousness.

Jeremiah 33:16

In those days Judah will be saved, and Jerusalem will dwell securely, and this is the name by which it will be called: T…

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Mike,

You have so many posts just to me, it seems you “need me” to answer you, ha. (its a joke no need to debate it 🙂 )

You said:

Mike: These claims are so very weak that they don’t even deserve a response.

LU:In other words, you can’t debate that.

Mike: As if my son somehow GAVE me the power and authority to be a father or create him.

LU:Are y…[Read more]

t8,

You can pray directly to Jesus…He is YHVH our Righteousness. He loves it when we talk to Him! It’s ok.

Acts 7:59 While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.”

1 Cor 1:2

2 To the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be his holy people, together with all those ever…[Read more]

Mike,

You said:

No, that doesn’t work. If they are praying TO a unity that involves both the Father and the Son (w or w/o the Spirit), then by identifying “a member of that unity” as the holy servant OF that unity, they then are essentially identifying him as a servant of HIMSELF.

Once again, the pastor is a servant to the church, a unity of be…[Read more]

Mike,

You said:

Do YOU believe YHVH’s arm has a mind and a will of its own?    Surely you refer to John 12:38.  The Trinitarians who produced the NET Bible say this…

“The arm of the Lord” is an idiom for “God’s great power” (as exemplified through Jesus’ miraculous signs). This response of unbelief is interpreted by the author as a fulfillment o…

[Read more]

Mike,

You said:

“…the Son made all things in heaven and on earth…”   No.  Jesus is the holy servant of the One who made the heavens, the earth, the sea, and everything in them.

“…the Son was slain before the foundation of the world…”  No.  That is a very poor translation.

Jesus is the holy servant of YHVH, the unity of which He is a member of.…[Read more]

Mike,

You asked:

Kathi, has Jesus ever GIVEN any power, authority, or revelation TO his and our God?

Mike, without having the position of creator, YHVH would not have the authority as the creator, so giving YHVH the position of creator is also giving YHVH the authority as the creator. Also, without having the position of father, YHVH would not…[Read more]

Mike,

You asked:

When has Jesus GIVEN power, authority, position or revelation TO his and our God?

My answer:

When he (the Son) was begotten before the ages he gave the YHVH who beget him, the honor of the position of being a father.

When the Son made all things in heaven and on earth, he gave the YHVH who beget him, the honor of the position…[Read more]

Mike,

Do you believe that YHVH and his “ARM” aka “YHVH our Righteousness” are in disunity? Yes or no?

Mike, not quite…

You said:

Okay, so your understanding is that the apostles prayed to a unity of the Father and Jesus, but then identified Jesus as the holy servant OF the unity of the Father and Jesus?  Is that right?

If your response there said this:

Okay, so your understanding is that the apostles prayed to YHVH, the unity of the Father,…[Read more]

Hi Mike,

You have been gone for a while and I know you were interested in this quest regarding the prayer in Acts 4 so I am pasting my post to yo from back then so you don’t miss it:

Mike,

You asked:

The prayer mentions the creation, right?

1. Did Jesus’ apostles pray to the one who created the heavens, the earth, the sea, and everything in t…

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Hi Carmel,

You would do well to read this thesis on the subject of 2 Cor 4:4. I do think you would not consider satan as the god of this world any longer. No need to keep that discussion going with me until you have read that thesis. I am convinced that satan is NOT the god of this world in Paul’s…[Read more]

Hi Pilgrim,

You said:

I have started reading the thesis you sent by a link. It being 384 pages long I won’t be replying anytime soon. In any event I don’t see the value in continuing dialogue on this particular subject as you obviously have a set your mind the interpretation of the text.

Haha, yes it is a long thesis, and as I said…very tho…[Read more]

Thank you to Pilgrim, t8, and Carmel for discussing 2 Cor 4:4 with me. I’ve wrestled with the passage and I stand on my initial belief. This thesis written by a man for his doctorate provides this conclusion (one would be hard pressed to find the subject more thoroughly examined):

In conclusion, then, I submit that the most likely meaning that m…

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Hi Pilgrim,

You said:

In 2 Corinthians 4:3 Paul is saying that “if the gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are LOST”. Now Jesus said “I am not sent but unto the LOST sheep of the house of Israel.” (Matthew 15:24) and again “For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was LOST.” (Luke 19:10). So the context of 2 Cor 4:4 is in relat…

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