Mike,If you are willing then I would point out that 2 Corinthians 12:1-4 does not stat that the man Paul knew viewed the third heaven  it literally states he was caught up into the third heaven and then later caught up into paradise.  I therefore assure you that he entered heaven as that is the result of being caught up.  I cannot say whether he…[Read more]

Irene,I wish to go over the wording of first sentence in 1 Corinthians 15:50Quote 1 Corinthians 15:50King James Version (KJV) 50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.You keep stating it states “enter” and it does not.  The word is “inherit”.  It also does n…[Read more]

T8,I do not believe you correctly understand the scriptures you cite and so I do not believe you understand what is true.   When I see scriptures that Jesus is the son of Abraham, David, and Mary then it becomes obvious that he did not exist before they did and so I am convinced those that believe in preexistence do not properly believe is…[Read more]

Irene,What a son of God is, is important to preexistent because you seem to believe that Jesus is the physical son of God. That is clearly not so as God is spirit and Jesus is the primary son of his spirit and not of his body (as if he had one).John 4:24, John 1:12-13, and Romans 8:15 all show what a son of God is. You should already realize…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 04 2011,09:07)Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 03 2011,00:08)The man could also be forced to mary the woman if the father decided to.Kerwin,That was the whole point.  A man could rape a woman against her will, and the BEST she could hope for was that he married her.2 Samuel 1314 But he refused to listen to her, and since he was…[Read more]

Mike,You wrote to Marty that:Quote Scripture doesn't record the transformation Jesus underwent as he ascended into heaven. But he left the earth as flesh and blood, and we know those things cannot inherit God's Kingdom.I want to point out to you that scripture does not record angels tranforming either.

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 05 2011,10:29)Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 04 2011,00:25)Pierre,The work of Jesus the Son of God is not done as he still is the mediator of the new covenant.  As the mediator he still must be a human being as he is mediating between his brothers and his God.Please see that Marty made the point that those that believe are…[Read more]

Quote (Pastry @ Aug. 05 2011,00:47)Scripture say that there is a natural body and there is a Spiritual Body….. Who knows what the difference is?  They are not the same, because it says and there is…1Cr 15:42   So also the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:   1Cr 15:43   It is sown in dis…[Read more]

Quote (Pastry @ Aug. 04 2011,19:59)Quote Irene,I believe that what I stated means the same thing but I used different words.  If it does not then I am not catching the difference between a human body and a flesh and bone body. Please let me know if you know of such a difference.Kerwin!  I did not say flesh and bone, I said flesh and blood body.  …[Read more]

Quote (942767 @ Aug. 04 2011,22:16)Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 03 2011,16:12)Quote (942767 @ Aug. 03 2011,09:59)Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 02 2011,14:27)I'm not going to let you slink away from this, Marty.  My DOG was born, and is also a creation of God.So why couldn't Jesus have been born, and also be a creation of his God?  You know, he's not only c…[Read more]

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Aug. 04 2011,22:41)Quote (942767 @ Aug. 05 2011,03:16)Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 03 2011,16:12)Quote (942767 @ Aug. 03 2011,09:59)Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 02 2011,14:27)I'm not going to let you slink away from this, Marty.  My DOG was born, and is also a creation of God.So why couldn't Jesus have been born, and also be a creation…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 05 2011,11:13)Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 04 2011,22:46)Since this is how the conversation stands I do not see how going through the scripture line for line is beneficial for understanding who Jesus is at least until we have resolved the groundwork I mention above.You don't have to know right now, Kerwin.  I know the outcome.…[Read more]

Quote (Pastry @ Aug. 05 2011,00:33)Quote I believe there are some scriptures that some believe infer that Jesus a Spirit being but I do not see them the same way.  At this moment that is a distraction from the issue of whether you agree that Jesus is a son of God's spirit?Kerwin!  Jesus is the firstborn of ALL CREATION.  That means that He ex…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 05 2011,09:20)Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 03 2011,22:36)Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 04 2011,08:37)Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 02 2011,23:09)Colossians 1 King James Version (KJV)13 who(The unity who directly unified with God through the Spirit of God) hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of…[Read more]

To  all,In the account of Baalam and his ass we are taught that the mule saw the angel and avoided him several times before God opened the eyes of Baalam.    Since God opened his eyes it is clear that the angel was present but Baalam could not see him until he had the eyes to see him.    We also learn that the ass could not speak until God open…[Read more]

To all,Here are some scriptures about angels to be considered.Quote Numbers 22 King James Version (KJV)21And Balaam rose up in the morning, and saddled his ass, and went with the princes of Moab. 22And God's anger was kindled because he went: and the angel of the LORD stood in the way for an adversary against him. Now he was riding upon his ass,…[Read more]

Quote (Pastry @ Aug. 03 2011,21:23)Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 03 2011,16:42)Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 03 2011,07:40)Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 01 2011,23:44)Paul wrote he was unsure whether a man entered the third heaven in body or out and if he was as sure as you insist then he would not have said he was unsure.Hi Kerwin,Flesh and blood cannot inherit the…[Read more]

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 04 2011,06:58)Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 04 2011,18:02)Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 02 2011,23:42)You state you do not know of any accounts it scripture that show angels with flesh and bone but both Irene and Pierre admit there are.Did Pierre and Irene become inspired scripture writers when I wasn't looking?    Perhaps an actual s…[Read more]

Quote (Pastry @ Aug. 03 2011,21:32)Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 02 2011,15:54)Quote (Pastry @ Aug. 01 2011,12:50)KerwinCol 1:15   Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:   Col 1:16   For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, or dominions, or pr…[Read more]

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 04 2011,08:31)KerwinQuote Pierre,Do you understand why those that fall short of God's glory and afterwards become his sons are said to be adopted?If you understand that then you should understand what I mean by natural. is Glory of God the same thing than natural ?can you make what is heavenly down to men s level and call…[Read more]