Hey WJ,For clarity on Acts 20:28, let's see what one of the early church fathers, Irenaeus, quoted in Against Heresies, Book III

“I know that ye shall see my face no more. Therefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all. For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God. Take heed, therefore, both to y…

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Hey WJ,Will reply later, but wanted to point out one verse. I hate to say it, but many times we see that many Trinitarian supporting verses have issues. Acts 20:28 is one of them. The ASV says “church of the Lord” and many Bibles make notes that “many manuscripts say 'church of the Lord'” (NIV, HCSB, AMP, ESV, NCV). So one has to wonder who…[Read more]

To all,Some seem to be hung in a loop over the Sabbath. Can anyone provide scriptural evidence that the Sabbath is on Saturday? Or that the 1st day of the week (Sunday) was the 1st day that God started creation? I ask this because the Bible only speaks of 6 days of “work” and 1 day of “rest”. No mention that I know of that the 6 days start on…[Read more]

Not3,Yes, he was the Son of God by birth. But my thought is that the logos did not become flesh until the baptism. Unless the logos is also the Holy Spirit! Now this only “works” if you think that logos signifies something other than a “plan”. There are too many verses that support Yeshua having some sort of existence IMO to deny the “plan”…[Read more]

Hey, does A.C.L.U stand for “Anti Christ Lives in Us?”

WJ,Hehe, yeah, we get “heated” in our debates, don't we? We both feel strongly about who Yeshua is to us, but in the end, I think we can agree that he is Master, Savior, Lord of lords, King of Kings, Lamb of God, Son of God, Messiah, and certainly our Lord.I certainly think that both of us, regardless of the difference in the level of divinity of…[Read more]

Quote (epistemaniac @ April 16 2007,13:27)ps… Jesus is here called “Lord of Hosts”…”LORD OF HOSTSA name or title of God frequently used in the Old Testament, always translated “Yahweh of Hosts” (‏יְהוָֹה צְבַאוֹת‎, Yehōwāh çebhāʾōth) in the American Standard Revised Version, since Yehweh, never ʾǍdhōnāy, is used in this phrase. Evidently the…[Read more]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 07 2007,11:11)Quote (t8 @ Aug. 07 2007,21:04)Quote (Cult Buster @ Aug. 05 2007,22:11)That's very sweet t8.However, this one verse alone has you stumped.Isa 9:6 For to us a Child is born, to us a Son is given; and the government shall be on His shoulder; and His name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty…[Read more]

Ken,That is why I believe that the logos became flesh not at the birth of Yeshua, but at the baptism. We know some things: (1) You listed verses that speak of ascension and descension (2) the Gospel of John does not speak of the birth but intersperses John the Baptist with the logos prelude. (3) When does God Himself call Yeshua His Son — at the…[Read more]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 07 2007,17:43)Dont waste your time. The word “Begotten” is not found in scriptures referring to the Son before his natural birth.So wait…if they call the Father the unbegotten God, and the Son the begotten God, don't we have 2 Gods? Because obviously one is not the same as the other. Hey, didn't God say he does not…[Read more]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 07 2007,16:18)Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 07 2007,15:56)Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 06 2007,18:56)Mr steveYou have never seen me say the “logos” is eternally begotten.I believe the 'Logos” which was with God and was God is not the spoken logos. The Logos that was God took on the likeness of sinfull flesh without…[Read more]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 07 2007,16:15)Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 07 2007,16:21)Check out this guy :P. From Prototokos

Colossians 1:15 describes Jesus Christ: “He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.” Lately, some have said that firstborn here means “preeminent.” Undoubtedly it can be used as such, but its more…

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Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 07 2007,16:10)Doubting the translators and major translators again. In reality, I don't know so much that I doubt the translators as much as I doubt Trinitarians view of John 1:1. I can leave it as “God” and still know that “logos” is not my God. I don't worship words and reason.Quote This is what people do when the…[Read more]

Steve,I find it odd that the OT is chock full of the phrase “word of the LORD”. There are 255 verses with this phrase. It was how people knew God, because they could not truly know the invisible spirit God. So they knew Him through His creation (“And God said”), they knew Him through His prophets and judges (who were called “gods”), and they knew…[Read more]

Steve,Philo of Alexandria was a 1st century Jew. He pretty much developed a doctrine on logos in relation to God. You can read what has been posted about him Here. Many scholars feel he influenced many of the NT writers, particularly Paul and the writer of John's Gospel. I've read alot of his writings so far and the similarities are astounding. I…[Read more]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 07 2007,13:46)kejonnBecause Yeshua laid the foundation of the world and not “a thought or a plan”. Because “a thought or a plan dosn't have life.And because of the other pronouns sorrounding the “His, Him, Hes in John 1 are invariably used in relation to a person.You mean “autos”. Yes, it can be translated as “he” or…[Read more]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 07 2007,11:26)I suppose God borrowed the name “Word of God” from Philo? Rev 19:13And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.Nah, “word of God” is used in the OT too  . But I've pondered this name in Revelation. Many scholars seem to say that the final Gospel of John…[Read more]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 07 2007,10:20)And your few translations you mention like the NWT are in opposition to all the major translations on biblegateway and Blueletter.com.You and kejonn seem to be aligning with the NWT and watchtower a lot lately.And you are started to sound like CB  . I guess this is a weak attempt at “hurting our…[Read more]

Quote (t8 @ Aug. 07 2007,04:31)Christian apologist Justin Martyr (c 150) identified Jesus as the Logos. He portrayed Jesus not as “the Maker of all things” but as “the Angel of the Lord”, subject to the Maker of all things.Justin Martyr got the concept of logos being and angel from Philo

And even if there be not as yet any one who is worthy to be…

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michaels,Good to hear. Consider this my last communication with you because you wrongly attempt to rebuke me because I listed verses as they are translated into English. Just one last note to you however. If “I am” is truly YHWHs name and it is blasphemous to use it, why did Yeshua never rebuke those who used “I am” in in his presence? Or if…[Read more]