Hi Danny,

53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?
54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:
55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall…[Read more]

Hi DT,

As according to Isaiah 45, God had declared the end from the beginning, in that declaration was a man who would come and execute God’s will, who would do all of God’s pleasure and it was unto salvation for Israel and as both Isaiah and David speak it was salvation for all nations of people.

God promised Abraham that through his seed all…[Read more]

Danny,

Jesus answered saying before Abraham was, I AM.

Jesus did NOT say, before Abraham was, I WAS.

This should be one of your first clues that you are forcing the text to say what it does not.

Good Morning Danny,

Yes, John 8:58 is quite a popular passage people like to give as proof of pre-existence.

I am fully aware of this passage and read it through clearly given truths and within the context of the chapter.   Having correct interpretation of a passage comes through applying scripture with scripture, applying simple logic is h…[Read more]

Hi DT,

I have not found one scripture in the bible that actually substantiates there are wicked celestial messengers rebelling against God nor play any part of human life on earth.

This is one very telling truth about angels from the bible,

Luke 20:35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the…[Read more]

Hi DT,

ang’-el-os in the NT is used to speak of human messengers ALSO.

According to Strong’s the word means messenger and could be applied to both celestial messengers OR HUMAN messengers. 

a messenger, envoy, one who is sent, an angel, a messenger from God

Matthew 11:10 For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger…[Read more]

Hi DT,

I think a good starting point is looking at definitions.

As for “Free Will” – the ability or discretion to choose; free choice, unforced choice.

I most definitely believe that people are given the freedom to make their own choices. I would be much happier if people just said we have “free choice”, then I wouldn’t have a…[Read more]

Hi All,

2 Peter 2

1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be…[Read more]

Hi Berean,

When it comes to the prophetic VISION that John had we know that there is no literal dragon, no literal beasts, right? So why do you insist on making the dragon and his MESSENGERS/angelos be in literal heaven? How does this even make any sense when this is prophecy and you argue that in Isaiah 14 that your Lucifer, which actually has…[Read more]

Hi DesireTruth,

Thanks for joining this thread!

Does seem like some clarification is in order.

Hebrew word “ra”

bad, evil
bad, disagreeable, malignant
bad, unpleasant, evil (giving pain, unhappiness, misery)
evil, displeasing
bad (of its kind – land, water, etc)
bad (of value)
worse than, worst (comparison)
sad, unhappy
evil (hurtful)
bad,…[Read more]

Hi Danny,

Thanks for your reply and looking at the content of Daniel more closely.

You say that doesn’t mean he  was a “good accuser”, but scripture doesn’t show that he was a wicked rebel spirit entity against God either. On the contrary, he was able to be in the presence of God, he asked God for permission and he followed God’s instructions.…[Read more]

Hi Berean,

YOU: Hey Jodi
Who tempted Eve in the Garden of Eden?

ME: I believe scripture throughout the bible gives us the understanding that the serpent in Genesis 3 is an allegory, there was no literal serpent in the garden. 

Genesis 2:5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for…[Read more]

Hi Danny,

John 6:69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God. 70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil (diabolos/slanderer) 71 He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.

John 8:44 Ye are of your father…[Read more]

Hi Berean,

the old serpent, the slanderer/deceiver, the adversary.

the CARNAL MIND is at enmity against God, it is not subject to the law or indeed can be. What are the works of the flesh, what do people do following after the imagination of their own hearts?

Eph 2:3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulf…[Read more]

Hi Berean,

You provided passages from 1 John 3 and John 8 that contain the word “devil”.

As provided a number of times now,

DEVIL = DIAOBOS

=SLANDERER/false accuser/liar/DECEIVER

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there…[Read more]

Good Morning Gene,

Excellent point that it was Cain who was a murder and a liar from the beginning. Looks like this post was from Berean actually, though Danny would have likely brought up these passages as well.

I find it fascinating that Berean highlighted “when he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of…[Read more]

Hi Danny,

Thanks for your reply keeping the discussion going.

Maybe I have missed it, I am not aware to what your understanding is exactly regarding unclean spirits interchangeably in scripture called devils?

I am not at all in error and let me provide some clarification and further scriptural support along with common sense. 

Mark 9:17 And…[Read more]

Hi Danny,

James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: 14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. 15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. 16 Do not err,…[Read more]

Good Morning Danny,

James 2: 18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

The word devils…[Read more]

Thanks Gene!

I remember debating this topic several years ago with a number of members, which you too might likely recall.  I hope the debate can continue, just wish I had more free time to study and post like I use to. I’d like to go back to some of those old posts and relook at them, might save me some time!