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[The Word’s Watchman]

Hi Anthony,

Moses was called a god too. Does that make him God? No

Sarah called Abraham lord. Does that mean she thought he was God? No

Maybe it’s just a Hebraism? Yes

Being the unique Son of God is by no means ordinary.

[The Word’s Watchman]

Hi Anthony,

If Col 1:15 is interpreted plainly how it’s written in KJV, then I would understand this that Jesus is the first to be born of every creature.

Are you implying that Jesus was born before all creation? What do you think being born means? How could he be born before creation? To be born means to come through the womb of a woman, doesn’t it. Do you think he was born before creation?

Mark 10:6  But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.

Could Col 1:15 better be understood that he is the firstborn of God over His creation?

[The Word’s Watchman]

Jesus began at his birth. Jesus the first born of all creation – you have to know Jesus wasn’t BORN before all creation. Adam was the first man and Abel was his first son. Maybe this BORN before all creation means something else? In fact it does, he is the first born of the new creation. The holy spirit, this new man, the Christ in you, is created in you. Jesus is the first to rise from the dead to die no more.

Eph_2:10  For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Eph_4:24  And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Col_3:10  And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

Eph 3:8  To me, the very least of all the saints, this grace was given so that I might proclaim to the gentiles the immeasurable wealth of the Messiah
Eph 3:9  and help everyone see how this secret that has been at work was hidden for ages by God, who created all things.

Anthony,

To answer your question, no I have never heard of the lost world books. Unless you are talking about Jurassic Park, then I’ve seen the movies.

[The Word’s Watchman]

Nick,

Not sure how you were able to imply anything contrary to baptism from what I wrote, but your antagonism is noted.

Anthony,

There’s over 1800 errors in KJV; words have been added to the text to deify Jesus. This isn’t hidden knowledge anymore. I’m sure if you Google scriptures added and/or changed to the Bible it be easy to see. (Johannine Comma, Matt 28:19, 1 Timothy 3:16, many more)

 

Allow me to further explain the fallacy people make when interpreting the first chapter of John. Most people come to conclusions based on deductive reasoning. If all you had was John 1:1-14 then you could conclude that Jesus is God. But we have more text than that. The fallacy made is a mathematical axiom that goes like this.

Jesus = Word

God = Word

therefore Jesus = God

Yes they are both the “word”, but they are not each other. People use this reasoning only having only parts of the whole. Let me give you another example and you can see where the logic falls apart.

Apple = fruit

Banana = fruit

therefore Apple = Banana

Yes they are both “fruit”, but they are not each other.

The writer of the gospel also gives us an illustration within the text of using the same word to give different meanings. The word “word” in John 1:1&14 can have more than one meaning. Just like John 1:10, the word “world” has more than one meaning.

John 1:10  He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

The word “world” speaks of the created world, and the people of the world. Same word just different meanings.

[The Word’s Watchman]

God’s Word is an expression of himself. He’s not some single entity that can can be perceived or grasped with the five senses. He uses Words to express who He is so we can understand, he also uses His creation as a teaching ground. He’s in His creation, He’s in His Word but He is not those things himself. Jesus is the expression of who God is manifested in the flesh, ie His image/likeness/character, in the five senses realm so we could absolutely know and understand His unfathomable Love. We see God’s expression of Himself in the person of Jesus Christ. We understand this through the written pages of the bible which contains words.

We have Christ in us, which means the anointing in us, not Jesus in us. Christ is the title given to him as the anointed one of God. When you get born again and get that gift of holy spirit, you too are anointed. How do you get born again? By hearing the Word and believing. His Word which is spirit (life giving), is from God who is Spirit.

 

Rev 19:13  And he (Jesus) was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

 

 

[The Word’s Watchman]

Jodi,

I believe the scriptures.

1Co 15:44  It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Co 15:45  And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [Jesus] was made a quickening spirit.

2Co 5:16  Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. 

 

Jesus was of David, not through actual seed or paternal linkage, but in Matthew it records of his Kingly order through Mary his mother. The word husband is likely a bad translation  and should be father of Mary not husband of Mary. In Luke 3 it says Joseph is of Heli, not Jacob like in Matthew. Joseph, Mary’s espoused husband became Jesus step father, but no hanky panky before conception.

In like manner to Matthew 1:1, “Jesus son of David”, we’re all seed of Abraham through believing. Mary’s lineage came through the kingly order. But no paternal linkage to Jesus.

Mat 1:1  The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham. (Not literal Son’s)

Mat 1:16  And Jacob begat Joseph the husband (father) of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

Mat 1:20  After he had thought about it, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream. “Joseph, son of David,” he said, “don’t be afraid to take Mary as your wife, because what has been conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. (Conceived from God, no man involved)

Rom 4:16  Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

[The Word’s Watchman]

Jodi,

The he is Jesus. vs 9 says “but we see Jesus”. Vs. 15 he, Jesus, delivers those for fear of death, remaining verses point to Jesus.

The point is, he didn’t take on the bloodline from Adam, like everyone else on the planet. I’m not saying he was some mystical god being. Yes he had flesh and blood but only took the flesh part from Mary, not the blood part from a human man passed down in the spermatozoa. In order for him to be the offering for us, he had to be pure. Jesus was a human being with flesh and blood just like every other human being brought in to this world, the difference is his blood didn’t come from corruptible man. No other sacrifice was sufficient, whether human or animal, because it is all corrupt.

Heb 9:14  How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Heb 10:4  For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

Heb 10:12  But this man [Jesus], after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
Heb 10:14  For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Heb 9:22  And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

1Jn 1:7  But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

After he was resurrected, he was given a new body. Even his own disciples didn’t recognize him. We too shall get new bodies.

2Co 5:16  Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. 

1Co 15:50  Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

1Co 15:53  For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Php 3:21  Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

2Co 5:21  For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew (ginosko) no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

It’s through the perfect unadulterated blood of the lamb Christ Jesus that we are able to be cleansed and sanctified and brought in to the presence of the Holy Father.

[The Word’s Watchman]

Eph_2:2  Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Eph_2:3  Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Gal 4:3  Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:
Gal 4:4  But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

Children are not born sinners because of their works doing evil deeds, but are born sinners inheriting the corruption via the blood line, thus all men die. Jesus didn’t have to die and could have lived forever, however he chose by his own freewill to do the father’s will and lay down his life for the brethren, and ultimately the world. He was tempted as all are to sin but chose not to.

This has been discussed before. Jesus was born of a woman, in the womb like any normal human. However, his father was God who made Jesus in the womb of Mary, as there wasn’t any sperm from a man for conception, it takes sperm and an egg to make a baby. He did not inherit the corruption/sin that is passed down to the child through the bloodline via a human father. Life of the flesh is in the blood. This is how Jesus could be born sinless, because he didn’t have the sin corrupted blood that comes from man. Jesus took the flesh part, but not the blood part. That’s why his blood could be shed for us, be cause it was untainted.

Heb 2:14  Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

Mat 27:4  [Judas] saying, “I have sinned by betraying innocent blood.” But they replied, “What do we care? Attend to that yourself.”

[The Word’s Watchman]

Jodi, Gene,

Have you ever heard of the idiom of permission? Below is an article and short teaching on it. I’m not a Hebrew scholar or from the middle East, so maybe someone on here can tell me if it’s valid, why or why not. When I consider the Word as a whole, I believe it has validity and answers a lot of questions.

https://www.revisedenglishversion.com/Romans/9/18

http://eternallyblessed.org/archive/idiom-of-permission-2139

1Ti 2:3  For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4  Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
1Ti 2:5  For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

1Co_1:24  But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

1Co_7:15  But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.

Being called is an invitation. All are called/invited, both Jews and non Jews. Who will answer? If God wants all men to be saved, then why does he destroy them, harden their hearts, just to destroy them? Why does the God of the OT seem angry and vengeful and wipes people out, but in the NT they speak of Him as Love and Light? Has God changed? I don’t believe that he has. It could that be there is a devil who comes to kill, steal, and destroy, John 10:10, and that God permits him to.

One of my favorite movie quotes.
<p class=”title style-scope ytd-video-primary-info-renderer”>“The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince the world he didn’t exist”</p>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnGo6Qm0Wt8

[The Word’s Watchman]

Jodi,

We are not innately good, thus needing a savior. No one is righteous in themselves. My righteousness is of Christ, it’s fruit I produce via the holyspirit, because of God and His spirit, and not my behavior/works.

Jos 24:15  And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

Deu 30:19  I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

We choose.

God’s foreknowledge

Rom 8:28  And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
Rom 8:29  For whom he did foreknow (prosginosko), he also did predestinate (proorizō ) to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Foreknow = prosginosko = pros and ginosko

Predestinate = proorizō = pro and orizo

Pros is before or towards. Like in John 1:1. The Word was with (pros) God, already predetermined.

1Pe 1:19  But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
1Pe 1:20  Who verily was foreordained (proginosko) before (pro) the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

This is part of the trap that trinitarians fall in to is the pre-existance of Christ. Sure, we all pre-existed, in the mind of the eternal God where time has no end or beginning. He has foreknowledge. Ephesians says we’re presently seated in the heavenlies, but we’re not there yet.

Mat_25:34  Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

 

The Clay

Rom 9:3  For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
Rom 9:4  Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

Rom 9:23  And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared (proetoimazō) unto glory,
Rom 9:24  Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? 

proetoimazō = prepared beforehand

The context of this section in Romans is that God Chose Israel (the clay) to bring about his promise of the messiah and inclusive benefits. He had/has foreknowledge on the out come, just a the potter chooses to mold the clay, God chose Israel to bring salvation to the gentiles to provoke the jews back to him.

Grace

Rom 9:15  For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Rom 9:16  So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

God chose to have mercy on the Jews and the gentiles, it was his choice. But our chose to receive it.

Rom 9:21  Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

Rom 9:24  Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

Rom 9:30  What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
Rom 9:31  But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
Rom 9:32  Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
Rom 9:33  As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Rom 10:1  Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
Rom 10:2  For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

Rom 10:3  For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

Rom 10:8  But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Rom 10:9  That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 
Rom 10:10  For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 10:11  For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Rom 10:16  But they (Israel) have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

Rom 11:1  I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
Rom 11:2  God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,

Rom 11:11  I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

Rom 11:25  For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:26  And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27  For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Rom 11:29  For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
Rom 11:30  For as ye in times past [Gentiles] have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
Rom 11:31  Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
Rom 11:32  For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
Rom 11:33  O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

God foreknew what would happen in Isreal, that’s why he had a plan since before the foundation of the earth, he planned to bring about the promise of the messiah through the people of Israel because he knew the results already. He knew about the gentiles as well so that it could be made available to all who call upon his name and believe.

Eph_1:4  According as he hath chosen us in him before (pro) the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Eph_1:5  Having predestinated [proorizō] us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Eph 1:9  Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
Eph 1:10  That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
Eph 1:11  In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

1Pe 1:2  Elect according to the foreknowledge (proginosis) of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

The law was a school master to bring us in to Christ. It shows us just how incapable we are, before it came in enslaved us proved how insufficient we are, thus needing a savior. We have to by our own freewill choose to believe and do the works of the law, or believe and have the faith of Christ being freed from the lay. As for me and my House, I choose to believe in the Grace made available through Christ.

Gal 3:23  But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Gal 3:24  Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

[The Word’s Watchman]

We too are God’s Word.

2Co 3:2  Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:
2Co 3:3  Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

Jesus read the OT scriptures pertaining to him, and said, “hey God’s talking about me”. When we read the Word, we should say “hey, God’s talking about me, I am a child of God too!” It is Written! We tell satan to go to hell, he has no power and authority over us anymore because of the accomplished work of Christ, Christ is lord! He paid the price, we’ve been redeemed!

[The Word’s Watchman]

Hi Jodi,

I by my own freewill am choosing to type this message to you. The doctrine you speak of is fallacious predestination. If we are all predestined, and God is a dictator controlling us robots, then there is no need to believe His Word, we’re just puppets on a string. There’s no need to renew our minds, it would be futile. What would be the point of reading and studying the Bible if we had no control over our own will? Why would we need to confess Jesus as Lord with our mouth’s and believe in our hearts that God raised him from the dead in order to be saved? If it’s already predetermined then there’s no point in any of this. There are plenty of records in the Bible where God told people to do something, then they decided to do it their own way. Sometimes it worked out, sometimes it didn’t, sometimes it took them longer to reach the promises, because the by their own freewill tried to do it their way. Abraham, Moses, Israel, David, Jonah, just to name of few. God is most merciful, gracious, and most of all fair, because we all have the right to choose to believe. This is the every day struggle we all must deal with as humans, the struggle Adam and Eve had; Will we believe God’s Word or someone else’s word?

 

Anthony,

Psalms 8 is the figure of speech called personification. You could say Jesus Christ is God’s Word personified. Similar to the Rock, the Bread, the Door, the Way, the Light, he’s not literally these things. He’s literally a human being born of a woman. Again, the Bible is book of literature that expresses the Mind of God; he uses natural terms that we’d understand to express spiritual truth’s. Symbols, parallels, type’s, analogies, colloquialisms, allegories, anthropaptheia, anti-personifications, irony, idioms, so on and so forth.

 

[The Word’s Watchman]

Gene,

You have freewill, it comes from God. You decide whether to believe or not believe, it’s your choice. As Jesus chose “not my will but your’s”. Accusing God of evil is one of the greatest tricks the devil uses to deceive people. As mentioned, not everyone was fully aware of the devil and his kingdom until Christ exposed it. I’m not aware of anyone casting out devil spirits before he came, recorded in the gospels. The gospels show what’s really going on behind the scenes, that satan has people bound, that’s why they devil spirits trembled when they saw Jesus, he cast them out. Satan had the power of death, sickness is death in part, this is why Jesus came to destroy him. Satan is the counterfeit god, if he can get folks to blame the true God for the death and destruction he causes, then he’s won over that person. God is Light and in him is no darkness at all. Darkness is the absence of light.

God gave satan freewill, but he sought his own will, and God permits him to do what he does because He is just. God knows the future and knows who will believe and who will not. Prophesy is fulfilled because God already knows the outcome, not because he made it happen by force. Believers walk in the fulfillment of prophesy, God already knows the outcome. God knew satan would rebel, he knew we’d need a savior and had a plan all along, he knew Jesus Christ would be that savior since before the foundations of the earth fulfilling that plan. He knew whether you would believe, since before the foundations. Again the spirit realm is not bound by space and time, tough concept for us linear thinkers.

 

Anthony,

Some reply’s are too literal. Jesus wasn’t literally the Rock in the OT, it’s figurative. He’s not literally, Bread from heaven, we don’t literally eat his flesh and drink his blood, it’s symbolic. We aren’t literally the body of Christ, it’s allegorical. God uses figures of speech to express spiritual truths. He’s Spirit.

[The Word’s Watchman]

Jodi,

I believe satan is a real evil spirit who took a third of the angels with him from God’s presence because the Bible tells me so. It’s not yen and yang. And, I have a TV and can see what’s behind the curtain pulling the strings.

2Co 4:4  In whom the god (satan) of this world (aion=age) hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the    image of God, should shine unto them.

2Co_11:14  And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

He’s the god of this age because Adam, who originally had dominion, transferred it to him when the devil convinced him and Eve to follow his word instead of God’s. This is how he’s able to offer power and kindom’s to Jesus in Luke 4. Same applies to us, when we follow any other word other than God’s, we essentially give up our rights.

Luk 4:1  And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,
Luk 4:2  Being forty days tempted of the devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered.
Luk 4:5  And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.
Luk 4:6  And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it

Evil spirits do exist. This is why we need discerning of spirits. 1 Corinthians 12:10… to another discerning of spirits;

I understand the Hebrew idiom of permission. Hebrews were not to even mention other god’s, so they, as Muslims do, attribute everything to God.

Exo_23:13  And in all things that I have said unto you be circumspect: and make no mention of the name of other gods, neither let it be heard out of thy mouth.

God does not do evil. He is Light, in Him is no darkness at all – He is Love. But He’s also just, and permits evil. He doesn’t violate free will. Satan asked God to consider Job, satan attacked Job and his family. Yes God created evil, he created everything. But it is a result of the fallen world we live in and that we have sickness and death, whether a direct attack from satan, or indirectly because of the fall. Religion is always trying to blame the person for being sick or causing their calamity.

Jas_1:13  Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

Job 1:10  Hast not thou (God) made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
Job 1:11  But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.

Job 2:6  And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life.

OT didn’t give credit to satan and his kindom, not sure they fully understood. Jesus Christ exposed who the true author of death is. Satan is the accuser of man, Christ took the full punishment/judgement on our behalf. He’s the mediator, our defense. Legally we are justified, not by our works but by his.

Heb 2:14  Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him   that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 

Rev_12:10  And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the      accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

Rev_12:4  And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

Satan’s fall is recorded…in different ways. God use the natural, to express a spiritual truth, He uses the haughty kings as illustrations figuratively of satan and his pride, which to your point, yes this is our human challenge too, because we’re born into a fallen world with as servants of sin and by nature the children of wrath. Eph 2:3. He says dragon, snake, serpent, leviathan, all figurative of satan. This is why many pagan religions have snakes, it’s prevalent in the world’s society, even in the caduceus medical symbol, as he is god of this age orchestrating the chaos you see on the news each night as we’re systematically lied to by the prince of the power of the air.

Isa 14:12  How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer (day star), son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isa 14:13  For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

Christ now has the title of day star. 2nd Peter 1:9. Reclaimed it from satan. Paid the price for us all.

Eze 29:3  Speak, and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, Pharaoh king of Egypt, the great dragon that lieth in the midst of his rivers, which hath said, My river is mine own, and I have made it for myself.
Eze 29:4  But I will put hooks in thy jaws, and I will cause the fish of thy rivers to stick unto thy scales, and I will bring thee up out of the midst of thy rivers, and all t      the fish of thy rivers shall stick unto thy scales.

Isa_27:1  In that day the LORD with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea. (see Job 41 also)

This is why we need salvation, and someone to stand in our behalf. Because we have an accuser and he is satan. He causes sickness death and destruction and is a liar and the father of them.

Joh_10:10  The thief (satan) cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Attached is a picture of the promised seed crushing the head of the serpent (Gen 3:14). God’s Word was written in the heavens, before it ever made it to print. A lot of the heavenly visions are illustrative of the zodiac. The Hebrews knew this, but much has been lost. Much has been hijacked into false religions. Biblical astronomy, not to be confused with counterfeit astrology and pagan fortunetelling and “your sign”. Nothing is without purpose.

Job_9:9  Which maketh Arcturus, Orion, and Pleiades, and the chambers of the south.
Job_38:31  Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion?
Amo_5:8  Seek him that maketh the seven stars and Orion, and turneth the shadow of death into the morning, and maketh the day dark with night: that calleth for the waters of the sea, and poureth them out upon the face of the earth: The LORD is his name:

[The Word’s Watchman]

Anthony.

We see [horaō] God when we do and keep His Word. We have all existed in the Mind of God since the beginning. Where does the eternal mind start and end? Jesus saw what the writers wrote from God’s Word about Him. I’ve never heard any Christian that doesn’t believe the trinity, think “he was just a man”, by no means was he. But I also don’t think he is some mystical being with super powers, existing not existing, 3 in 1 and 1 is 3 in different forms at different times making 1 a 3 (Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva) (Zeus, Athena, Appollo) triad.

Humans are linear thinkers, and we struggle with the concept of eternity. That’s why Revelation has been so hard for many to interpret, because it shows us that things have happened, are happening, and will happen; and make it tough to distinguish. ie. Satan has already been kicked out of heaven, he’s currently reeking havoc on earth, yet Revelation presents it as a future event, but likely happened in Genesis; likewise, the lamb Jesus Christ has already presented himself to God on our behalf, but in Revelation it hasn’t happened yet. We’re seated in the heavenlies, but not realized yet. Point is, “It is Finished”, just not realized in our earthly linear view. See it from the spiritual side, when someone gets born again/from above, they get the holy spirit of God, a token of what is to come, the spirit dwelling in us, God’s Word in his Temple ever residing in fellowship with Him and Christ, satan is kicked out and doesn’t leave without a fight, but God wins. That’s a current present reality, but hasn’t fully began to manifest itself until the Return of Jesus. Heaven is not a physical geographical location somewhere beyond the universe, as most perceive, but a realm, or dimension if you will. It’s not bound by time and space as we know it.

To See

horaō – Can be used as seeing with eye balls, or used as to perceive and understand. pending the context of sentence and surrounding passages.

optomai – To literally see with the eye balls, where we get optometry.

 

Jude 1:4  For there are [presently] certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Jude is saying there are currently, those who were before ordained to condemnation, presently deniers of God and Jesus, crept in to their fellowship. God brought them out of Egypt.  Vs. 5 is absolutely referring to Lord God.

[The Word’s Watchman]

Anthony,

Luk 3:38  the son of Enos, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God. 

Rom 5:14  Nevertheless, death ruled from the time of Adam to Moses, even over those who did not sin in the same way Adam did when he disobeyed. He [Adam] is a foreshadowing of the one who would come.

God is Spirit, He has to manifest himself in the natural realm  in concretion and use natural terminology in His Word for us to understand him. To Moses, an angel appeared, but it was the voice of God that spoke.

Exo 3:2  And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.

Exo 3:6  Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

Act_7:30  “After 40 years had passed, an angel appeared to him in the flames of a burning bush in the desert near Mount Sinai.
Act_7:31  When Moses saw it, he was amazed at the sight, and when he approached the bush to look at it, the voice of the Lord said,
Act_7:35  “This same Moses—whom they rejected by saying ‘Who made you ruler and judge?’—was the man whom God sent to be both their ruler and deliverer with the help of the angel who had appeared to him in the bush.

The fullness of God’s prophetic Word concerning the promised seed was personified in the person of Jesus Christ. It was as if God was manifesting Himself to communicate to us His Love, in the natural realm in the person of Jesus Christ. But Christ has his own mind, his own will, but decided not to do it, rather he did the Father’s will. God is not separate from His Word, but His Word does not encompass all of He is. He’s bigger than that, He’s in His creations, sons, angels, council [sod].

In Revelation, the lamb is clearly presented before God, The Ancient of Days in Daniel, and not the same entity. Plus, when all is said and done, Jesus gives it back to God, he can do that because God have him all rule and authority, the same dominion that Adam had but delivered to Satan who is figuratively representative of a snake, dragon, etc… Understood as such from understanding God’s Word written in the heavens/sky/stars as Draco. God’s spirit realm is communicated to us in terms we carnal can understand by using figures of speech. We now have what Adam lost, in the person of Christ, God’s Word made flesh.

Isa_45:21  Explain and present a case! Yes, let them take counsel together. Who announced this long ago, who declared it from the distant past? Was it not I, the LORD? And there is no other God besides me, a righteous God and Savior; and there is none besides me.

If God and Jesus were God, then God would be beside himself. Trying to incorporate the trinity is like reasoning with schizophrenia. Keep the simplicity that is in Christ.

 

[The Word’s Watchman]

Cheers Jodi,

It’s so unfortunate that when people make Jesus to be God they miss their potential of who they are and can be. If he were God, then I don’t suspect that what he accomplished would be something to behold. But as he was like us, he read the scriptures and new the promises of God from the law and the prophets were to and for him; if we could only believe this too to that degree, what great things His kids would do. But we see through a glass darkly.

(ISV)John 14:10  You believe, don’t you, that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own. It is the Father who dwells in me and who carries out his work.

John 14:12  “Truly, I tell all of you with certainty, the one who believes in me will also do what I am doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.

John 5:19  Jesus told them, “Truly, I tell all of you with certainty, the Son can do nothing on his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing, What the Father does, the Son does likewise.

John 5:30  I can do nothing on my own accord. I judge according to what I hear, and my judgment is just, because I do not seek my own will but the will of the one who sent me.”

[The Word’s Watchman]

To add to Jesus receiving holy spirit at Jordan.

Act 10:37  That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached; 
Act 10:38  How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him. 

 

After Pentecost

Act 11:15  And as I (Peter) began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them (Gentiles), as on us (Jews) at the beginning (Pentecost). 
Act 11:16  Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. 
Act 11:17  Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God? 

[The Word’s Watchman]

Gene,

I like Micah 5:2. Haven’t picked up on that one before. However, it says “his going forths” are from old. Concordances’ suggest that means his descent, or origins, are from old/everlasting. This fits with the whole of scripture as God is His father from whom he descended from. Doesn’t necessarily suggest he has existed forever. Do you have further insight on this verse, your suggestion the Messiah existed before he existed, at his birth?

[The Word’s Watchman]

Nick, Yep.

TC,

You referenced your own argument as mine (#833878 <span class=”bbp-admin-links”>REP)</span>, but that is what you said, then you argued against your own statement. Then you started calling me names – how Christian of you, thanks. Let’s not get offensive or offended, we’re just sharpening each other.

Please provide verses of Holy Scripture that say Jesus Christ was born with holy spirit, and I’ll believe them, no assumptions just scripture. If one could get born again of holy spirit as you say John and other prophets did, then there would be no need for Jesus and we could just all be born of the spirit – did they get to choose like we do? We too are referenced as God’s temple, yet were not born with holy spirit.

Again, spirit upon conditions before Pentecost, spirit unconditionally after Pentecost. Getting born again is God Creating His Spirit in you (Col 3:10). Create means to bring in to existence something that didn’t exist. GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT, created seed in MARY to bring about the flesh man JESUS who became the THE CHRIST anointed of GOD at Jordan fulfilling prophecy.

ISV – Col 3:10  and have clothed yourselves with the new nature, which is being renewed in full knowledge, consistent with the image of the one who created it. 

ISV – Eph 4:24  and to clothe yourselves with the new nature, which was created according to God’s image in righteousness and true holiness. 

No one suggested the baptism of John brings the holy spirit. As you said, John and the other OT prophets had the same spirit, but, being born again of the spirit wasn’t available until Pentecost, that’s the whole point of Pentecost and the birth of the church, that’s why Jesus told his disciples to tarry/wait, so he could send another comforter. He taught them how to receive the holy spirit in John 20:22, but it wasn’t fulfilled until Pentecost.

Act 2:1  And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 
Act 2:4  And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Act 2:18  And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: (prophecy fulfilled at Pentecost, not before) 

ISV – Joh 3:7  Don’t be astonished that I told you, ‘All of you must be born from above.’ (Born again)

ISV – 1Pe 1:23  For you have been born again, not by a seed that perishes but by one that cannot perish—by the living and everlasting word of God. 

Pentecost is the fulfillment of prophecy of the outpouring of holy spirit for all who believe and call upon the name of Jesus the Christ and get born again. This was not available until then. Yes, previously they had holy spirit as God chose whom he would to speak/execute his Word, but it wasn’t available for just anyone to choose and receive until Pentecost (50th day after Passover-completion of harvest). If there is proof of being born again otherwise, please provide the scriptures that directly say that so I can examine.

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