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[GeneBalthrop]

Keith……I completely disagree with so-called “free Will salvation”., everything works through “cause and effect”.   God the Father is the “cause” of all salvation.  IMO

Peace and love to you and yours Keith……..gene

[GeneBalthrop]

DT, what do you do with this scripture……> Jer 17:10…., “I the LORD search the (heart) , I try the reins (mind) , even to give “every” man according to his ways and according to the fruit of his doings”.

GOD THE FATHER EVEN TRYS PEOPLE BEFORE THEY ARE EVEN BORN,  just as he did in the case of Jacob and Esau. Saying,  to Rebekah, “two nations are in your womb, and two manner of people, shall be separated from bowels, and the one expletive shall be stronger then the other people, and the elder shall serve the younger.

Now as the apostle PAUL brought out clearly, this was said “before they were born”, neither had done good or evil yet.  SO THIS SHOWS, us that God does choose people’s faits before they are even born.   So where does you “self willed” righteousness fit in that DT?

Cloud Esau, have repented and changed his destiny? , I think not, neither can you or I on our own, change our hearts or our minds.  Only God the Father can do that. IMO, EVEN JESUS SAID YOU CAN’T EVEN COME TO HIM, “UNLESS” THE FATHER DRAW YOU”,  AND it is obvious you aren’t drawn to him , by the very words of your own mouth.

Again I say to you, “if you reject the messenger, you are also rejecting the one who sent  him”.

peace and love to you and yours DT………gene

 

[GeneBalthrop]

DT, you said…….You claim to be “filled” with the “spirit”, do you still sin? If so, how; doesn’t the spirit lead you like it lead the Jesus?

DT, show me where I ever said I was “filled” , with Holy Spirit. I said I have the Holy Spirit, (the spirit of truth) Abiding in me, that is how I know you are not of the truth , in rejecting Jesus Christ and the Apostle Paul, and the whole New Testament,

I am not perfect yet, but the spirit of God that abides in me, is working for that goal, just as it says,  ” for he (God) works in us, both to Will,  (cause us to desire) and do of his (God’s) good pleasure’.

Jesus was right,  if we “lust” after a woman,  we are commuting adulatory with her in our hearts, so you are guilty of committing the act , (in your heart)> if you do it in your heart you will do it .  …..“so a man thinks, so he is”.   That is also written.  God judges not only our actions but also our hearts, as in the case of Cain, God know before Cain committed the act , what Cain would do. Think about that  “O” WISE ONE.

Peace and love to you and yours DT……..gene

 

[GeneBalthrop]

DT…….Jesus and Paul were “ALL”, about mastering sin, and showed us all how that is accomplished.  It wasn’t them that created the “quick fix”, that was fallen so called “CHRISTIANITY”, that created the “quick fix”.
Jesus and Paul, showed us all “the way” to overcome sin, and it’s the exact same way they did, by the exact same power, the power of the Holy Spirit from God the Father, that enables us to “OVERCOME”  OR “MASTER” , sin.

Your belief of “self empowerment” through “self will”,  to overcome sin is a complete “false teaching”,  Tell me have you completely over came you sins?,  I highly doubt it.  If you haven’t yet then why not?,  seeing you believe you can “self will”. your own way out of sinning?. Let’s see how that works for you in the end.

THERE is,  “only one way” to overcome sins, and that the exact “way” Jesus , demonstrated to “all”.  There is no other “WAY”.   Jesus did not pay off our sin debt that is true, we all must “REPENT”, BUT, JESUS SHOWED US ALL THE WAY, TO TRUE REPENTANCE AND  LIFE, He is the good and “FAITHFUL” Shepard,  sent from God to guide us, “his sheep”, to eternal life, by showing and “DEMONSTRATING”  to us the way to have that right relationship with God the Father, and it’s no different then his relationship with God is.

Peace and love to you and yours DT……….gene

[GeneBalthrop]

Berean…..if you can’t read the text and see that is exactly what Jesus was telling them, them you simply are blind to the truth, IMO.

Peace and love to you and yours Berean………….gene

 

[GeneBalthrop]

Proclaimer……YES……Jesus said the ….“greatest commandment ” Is to love the lORD your God , with “ALL” your heart, “ALL” your mind, “ALL” your soul, “ALL“ your strength, and the “SECOND” is like unto it,  (but it is not the same). “You shall love , your neighbor as yourself “.

On these “TWO” hung “all” the law and the prophets”.

A door has ” TWO” hinges, they both support the door, but they are not the exact same hinge.  There is a first hing and there is a second hinge they both work to support the same door , so it is with the love of God, the “FIRST LOVE IS THE LOVE FOR “the LORD OUR GOD ,the “SECOND LOVE IS THE LOVE FOR YOUR NEIGHBOR,  Jesus and the rest of man kind,  They are similar, but are not the ” THE EXACT SAME.

That was the fall of the church at Ephesus in revelations.  They replaced Jesus as their “FIRST LOVE”, and was rejected for doing that, and told to repent or their candle stick would be removed.  We need to make sure we don’t make that same mistake or we also will be rejected at the return of Jesus>

Peace and love to you and yours  Proclaimer…….gene

 

 

 

[GeneBalthrop]

Keith……true, good post, and we must all remember also, Jesus said…..“the words I am telling you , are not “my” words, but the words of him who sent me”. Another words,  (God’s the fathers word’s )

We all must all come to obey God the father just like Jesus did. God the Father must alway be our, “first love” , Jesus and everyone else our “second love” , as Jesus letter to the Ephesians at Ephesus shows, . Rev 2-4

peace and love to you and yours Keith…….gene

[GeneBalthrop]

DT, Can’t believe your so ignorant that you ask such questions,  it only shows how much you truly do not know what scriptures say.

1….”FAITH IS,  the substance of things hoped for, (how) by the “EVIDENCE” of things not seen.  You need to get your own “proof” that God does actually exist, and is involved in you life. Without that you have only “suppositions” gained by hear sayer, as it appears you now have, by your words.  You don’t seem to have proven God is actually in your life yet.

2…..God in scripture says,   “Be you “HOLY” , because I am holy, be you “PERFECT” because I am PERFECT”. 

DT, you seem to have very little retention of scriptures, why is that?

peace and love to you and yours DT…….gene

[GeneBalthrop]

DT, you said…….> “Finally you say, “Jesus came as a flesh human” – so, he’s divine?!? What you’re saying doesn’t make sense, explain exactly what did the Jesus “DEMONSTRATE” that mankind was to follow? He told everyone to keep the law.

Please make sense of it.”

Me…..How does being born as a flesh being make you Devine? I don’t believe Jesus was Devine at all, if that were the case he could not have “DEMONSTRATED” how human flesh could live perfectly .  He had to be “exactly” as we are, in ever sense, in order to demonstrate, to us all how to have a right relationship with God the Father, it is all based on “FAITH” in God, we must all come to that “exact same “FAITH” Jesus had, by the “EXACT SAME WAY the “man” Jesus did, through the working of the SPIRIT OF GOD, just as it says. ……> “for He (God) Works “IN” us both to “WILL” and do of “HIS” ( God’s), good pleasure”.

That is what Jesus “DEMONSTRATED” to us “ALL”, WHAT “FAITH” IS REQUIRED  TO PLEASE GOD THE FATHER’S “WILL”.  we must all come to give up our lives (the way we live) to the “will” of God the Father, by the exact same spirit working in Jesus Christ our lord.

 Just as the apostle PAUL said..…>“till we “all” come in the unity of the “FAITH” , and the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a “PERFECT” man, unto the measure and of the stature of the, “FULLNESS” of Christ”.

REMEMBER what Jesus said,  ….> ” he that will save “his life” (the way he lives) , will lose it, but he that will lose his life (the way he lives)  for my sake, will save it. ”

Those are true words and applies to us all,  we must all come to be,  “exactly” like Jesus was, in our “FAITH”,  In God the Father , that’s what it takes to become a Joint heir with Jesus .  Hope this helped you better understand.

peace and love to you and yours DT………gene

 

[GeneBalthrop]

DT, you said…….You say the Jesus prophesied of his own death for the sins of others; I’ll ask again, when did God change his mind and say the innocent can take on the guilt of the wicked?

Jesus whole life was for the sins of others, meaning all of mankind, he “DEMONSTRATED” to USA all, what is required OF  us “ALL”  to have a right relationship with God the Father, it requires our whole being to love and obey God the Fathers Will, as Jesus did,  It is in that “SENSE”, he died for us all, not that he himself , Paid off anyone’s  sin debt,  we must all, “repent” and cease from signing, and come to live “Exactly” , As Jesus did, and that is what will takes away our sins. JESUS CLEARLY SAID …… > we are to “love the LORD our God with “ALL” our hearts, “ALL” our soul, “ALL” our minds, “ALL” our strength”.   
Jesus came as a flesh human being to “DEMONSTRATE” TO US ALL WHAT IS “REQUIRED” OF US ALL.  SO IT IS IN THAT “SENSE” , HE DIED FOR ALL, get it? 

Just as Paul said,  Eph 4:13……> “till we “all” come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a “perfect” man, unto the measure of the stature of the,  “FULLNESS” of  CHRIST.  Get it?

peace and love to you and yours DT……….gene

[GeneBalthrop]

DT……If you can’t tell that the Old Testament and the New Testament agree with each other you’re not even close to understanding scriptures.  Your efforts of trying to divide them  and saying they disagree with each other is wrong, There are some mistranslations in both texts, but  by far,  they agree with each other, IMO.
Jesus said he did not come to destroy the (books). Of the law or the prophets, but to fulfill them.

Nothing wrong with being a critical thinker, I believe I am a critical thinker also, I weigh most everything I hear and read,  by the Spirit God has given me,  because the “spirit of truth” gives us the power to discern the truth from a lie when we read or hear it.

Your evil work of trying to say the old and new testaments disagree with each other, only shows  me what spirit is working in you, and trust me, it is not the Spirit of God, that causing you to think like that DT, IMO.

peace and love to you and yours DT……..gene

[GeneBalthrop]

Jodi, amen to that also.

peace and love to you and yours Jodi……..gene

[GeneBalthrop]

Jodi……“AMEN” to that.

peace and love to you and yours……..gene

[GeneBalthrop]

DT, you said…….>”How can the Jesus “freely” lay down his life when it was preordained from the beginning of time for him to do so? What choice did he really have? Was he going to defy the spirit that was in him?”

You seem to lack understanding of the power of God WORKING IN THE MINDS OF PEOPLE, with your reasoning then, HOW can “anything” be “preordained” , what is prophesy if not a set of preordained events, carried out by the power of God?  When scripture  said, “he knows the end from the beginning”,   what does that mean to you?  Sure God knew from the beginning what he had planned and what Jesus would do, being lead by his  Sprit to put his complete “Faith in God’s, Will for him.  God knew what the man Jesus would do before he ever came into existence, and not only that but what everyone of us do and will do, why is that so hard for you to understand?  Is God not “all knowing”? 
Does scripture not say,  “for he works “IN” us both to Will and do of “HIS” good pleasure?”  (Cause and effect)  everything works that way, God caused everything to come into existence, he “causes” those he chooses to walk in his ways,  by the spirit he puts “in” them.

As far as God calling “his people” goes, “all people are God’s people, rather Jew or Gentiles”. All the earth and everything in it belongs to him and he does with it as he so chooses.  That was Paul’s overall point,  and he was completely right.  IMO

peace and love to you and yours DT……..gene

[GeneBalthrop]

DT……Your lack of knowledge of the New Testament as well as the old is obvious to me. So let me then quote the scriptures,  you say I didn’t quote, about Jesus sacrificing himself ok.

JOHN 10: 17-18…..> “therefore does my Father love me, because, I LAY DOWN MY LIFE, that I might take it again”.

verse 18…>.  “No man takes it from me, but I lay it down “OF MYSELF” , I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it up again, this commandment have I received “from my FATHER”. 

NEED MORE, I can produce them if you wan’t, so tell us where did I or anyone here say God  “MURDERED” JESUS. To say that is simply “a LIE”.

DT, I have not been a member of any church for over 60 years now, I have read and studied the scriptures myself and the Spirit I received from God the Father brings them into my mind the “spirit of truth” tells me when I hear the truth or when I hear a lie. That’s how I know you are not of the truth.
But  just as I said,  you will simply ignore the truth or divert or just skirt around it. Face it DT you’re not interested in   “The truth” ,  but your own self made form of religion, just as the Jew’s of Jesus’ day were.   sad! Repent!

peace and love to you and yours DT……….gene

 

 

[GeneBalthrop]

DT……Jodi would have answered you the same way, why?, because she has the “SPIRIT” of God abiding “in” her.  You on the other hand don’t, and that why you flip flop around our responses by simply asking different questions every time we “answer” your questions. I Answered your question to Jodi, and instead of answering the scriptures I gave you, you simply ignore them and shift to something else, that I can show you doesn’t change a thing I have posted. You simply bait and switch every subject we answer of yours.
You remind me of the old adage, “you can’t catch a rabbit in a bier patch”, But in your case it would be a snake.

Every question you ask in your last post I and can and did answer in the posts,  “for those who have eyes to see”.   But in you case that doesn’t seem to apply, why is that? Is it because you have rejected the whole,  New Testament, and even much of what is written in the Old Testament   It appears ?, IMO,   There can never be an agreement  with you, you simply “bait and switch”,  and by that,  skirt around everything , dialoging with you is “futile”.  

Peace and love to you and yours DT……….gene

[GeneBalthrop]

DT,  you said…”HE murdered his son for the “transgressions of others”, like a bull on an altar? On what plane does that make sense to you? There is so much wrong in what you said. Isn’t murder, murder and called a sin? Are you saying God can sin? Still waiting for when God changed and said the innocent can be responsible for the actions of the guilty”.

Me….GOD NEVER MURDERED HIS son Jesus,  that decision was always up to Jesus,  But God did want or “willed” for him to have enough “FAITH”  in him,  to offer his life as a sacrifice, for, (because of), the sins of the world.  Jesus said clearly himself he had the power to lay down his body and to restore it again,  he also said that he could call down 12 legions of angels to come to his aid if he wanted to.  What Jesus did was to “DEMONSTRATE ” to us all, his “FAITH” in God the father,  Just as Abraham demonstrated his “FAITH” IN God,  by willing to offer up his son in obedience to the command or “WILL” , of God.

There was no murder ever committed by God, it was all a voluntary  sacrifice on Jesus’ part. That is why he is “exalted” above every creature in heaven and earth, because his “FAITH” in God the Father caused him to pored out his “SOUL” unto death.

Jesus proved his commitment to the “Will” of God, by his “Faith”,  the same thing is required of all of GOD’S,  “faithful” children. We must all come to put God the Fathers “WILL” ahead of our “WILLS”. 

Peace and love to you and yours DT………gene

 

 

 

[GeneBalthrop]

DT,  you said……Me: HE murdered his son for the “transgressions of others”, like a bull on an altar? On what plane does that make sense to you? There is so much wrong in what you said. Isn’t murder, murder and called a sin? Are you saying God can sin? Still waiting for when God changed and said the innocent can be responsible for the actions of the guilty.

Me….GOD NEVER MURDERED HIS son Jesus,  that decision was always up to Jesus,  But God did want or “willed” for him to have enough “FAITH”  in him,  to offer his life as a sacrifice, for, (because of), the sins of the world.  Jesus said clearly himself he had the power to lay down his body and to restore it again,  he also said that he could call down 12 legions of angels to come to his aid if he wanted to.  What Jesus did was to “DEMONSTRATE ” to us all, his “FAITH” in God the father,  Just as Abraham demonstrated his “FAITH” IN God,  by willing to offer up his son in obedience to the command or “WILL” , of God.

There was no murder ever committed by God, it was all a voluntary  sacrifice on Jesus’ part. That is why he is “exalted” above every creature in heaven and earth, because his “FAITH” in God the Father caused him to pored out his “SOUL” unto death.

Jesus proved his commitment to the “Will” of God, by his “Faith”,  the same thing is required of all of GOD’S,  “faithful” children. We must all come to put God the Fathers “WILL” ahead of our “WILLS”. 

Peace and love to you and yours DT………gene

 

 

 

[GeneBalthrop]

Jodi…….Good post, Couldn’t have said it better myself.

peace and love to you and yours Jodi……..gene

[GeneBalthrop]

Proclaimer…….Good subject,   The Bible is full of “Metaphors”,  from Genesis to Revelations, hundred it not thousands of them.  For instance in Genesis in the Garden is mentioned the (tree) of the knowledge of good and evil.  We have to understand that a tree is that which bares fruit of some kind from (the self). God was simply telling them , if they “eat”, (take to  the self),  (as what a person does when they eats something),  to produce the from the self,  the knowledge of Good and evil, they would ultimately die. God was simply warning Adam and Eve, not to do that, which as we know they rejected,  and as a result died.
The word “eat” used there means,  to take to one’s self. Jesus also used that ‘Metaphor’ many times and also the Metaphor “drink” , which means the same thing (to take to one’s self) . Jesus used the metaphor “tree” also several times.  The better we understand “METAPHORIC” language used in our scriptures,  the better we can UNDERSTAND them. Even all the parables are given in “metaphoric language “. This is a very good subject for us all. IMO. Hope others will add more to this subject.

Peace and love to you and yours Proclaimer……..gene

 

 

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