@Nick,

You: “But knowing there are faults does not mean we are fit to be a judge of scripture.”

Me: I’m not “judging” scripture, I am pointing out the corruption of the translators; if the tenses, plurality, or the punctuation is changed anywhere, the meaning can be changed and a bias inserted. The fact the translators of the KJ changed t…[Read more]

@Berean,

Nothing in your reply have you proved or explained anything; pointy fingers, pointing at existing words, does not offer proof or an explanation to what the words are trying to convey. Am I suppose to translate pointy fingers to mean Jesus? Explain how these verses in Isa 42:1-4 (first “servant song”) ARE a reference to Jes…[Read more]

@Gene,

Have you read Isaiah Chapters 41-65 yet? Please read this section of Isaiah all the while paying attention to who the “servant” is. If you don’t we will continue to go in circles and I am not a fan of merry-go-rounds.

Using the handful of translations I use on a regular basis, KJV translates verse 2 in the future tense, while the other…[Read more]

@Gene,

Do a search on the four “Servant Songs” of Isaiah – Isaiah 42:1–4; Isaiah 49:1–6; Isaiah 50:4–11; and Isaiah 52:13–53:12 is what you will come up with. Did I come up with these as being “songs”, NO. The Jewish and Christian scholarly did, I’m just repeating what they have said. Theses “songs” are taught in both Judaism and Christianity…[Read more]

@ Jodi,

There is no logic involved in what I wrote; I’m simply using rules of grammar and associating the pronouns to who is speaking or being spoken of. This is why it’s extremely important to know who is speaking where in this “song.” I applied your line of thinking that the “our”, “me”, and “my” refer to the apostles (apparently speakin…[Read more]

@Gene,

You: “I don’t recall you ever telling us who it is “specifically” speaking about. Please tell us and explain to us how you reached that conclusion. You’re contradicting our assumptions, but not telling us who it is talking about then. ”

Me: This makes me sad (post #943966 & #943990) I spent an appreciable amount time writing and explain…[Read more]

@Gene

You still haven’t specified who is speaking where in Isa 53. KJV is one of a few versions that specify a future tense in verse 2 and I have already established the KJV is corrupt because it does change the tenses of words and thus changes the meanings of what is being conveyed; hence needs to be thrown into the trash bin of history.

You…[Read more]

@Carmel,

Your writing format is to difficult to follow and I don’t have time to read one liners and decipher what you’re trying to say, try paragraph format, it’s how the rest of the world actually writes.

YOU: Paul used the word “SCRIPTURE”.

It is not enough proof that he was definitely referring to the Old Testament!

Since the word SCRI…[Read more]

@Gene,

The verse doesn’t say “when” he poured…; it says “because” he poured. This conjunction ties into the first part of the verse, “Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong” BECAUSE “he poured out his soul.” What was given Jesus from the many and what did Jesus divide with the strong?…[Read more]

@Berean,

You still cannot ignore the fact that what Jesus compared himself to was destroyed because it was made into an idle. So for you it is just the “pole” that matters.

HOWEVER!!!! You have failed to respond to what I said to you concerning Acts 8. What is your response to the blatant manipulation of the OT? This only one example, I can give…[Read more]

@Carmel,

YOU: WHAT CONVINCED YOU THAT PAUL REFERRED TO THE OLD TESTAMENT?

ME The only scripture available to them in the 1st century was the tanach, the Jewish writings that we today call the “old testament.” What we call the “new testament” didn’t get canonized and become the “new testament” for almost 400 years after Jesus, thus wasn’t “scri…[Read more]

@Gene,

You are not commenting on the rest of the verse; God “crushed” him “to see if his soul would offer itself in restitution” as in a “guilt offering.” You can’t leave that off, because then we’re “cherry picking” the words to make them fit an ideology. If the servant was to offer himself as a “guilt (asham) offering”, that means the servant d…[Read more]

@Carmel,

I Corinthians 15:3-4 are the verses in question; Paul stated “according to scripture” (meaning this is in the OT) and it’s the claim “the Messiah dying for the sins of mankind” and “being buried and raised on the third day.” I am asking for the verses in the OT that support Paul’s statement.

If what Paul states isn’t in the OT, we hav…[Read more]

@Jodi,

Thank you for answering my question of who is speaking where…finally! I will respectfully disagree with your interpretation of who is speaking in Isa 53:1-9 (don’t include verse 10 in this dialogue, verse 10 belongs with 11-12). If you are going to say Isaiah is prophesying what the apostles are going to say speaking of the crucified o…[Read more]

@Berean,

I would recommend what you do is compare the Acts 8:32-33 passage to the OT passage in Isa 53:7-8 and tell me they’re the same. The Acts passage has been modified. Seems a bit naughty to change what Isaiah relayed from God.

Isa 8 “By oppression and judgment He was taken away;”

Acts 33 “In humiliation His judgment was taken away;…[Read more]

@Gene,

It seems Christianity must push/inject Jesus into Isa 53. Is God speaking in verses 10-12 thru Isaiah? If yes, then this response MUST be referring back to the previous section of this chapter. If no, then who is speaking? I am a little perplexed to why most (thank you Jodi) won’t answer who is speaking where in this “song.”

We keep sayin…[Read more]

@Gene,
@Berean,

We can go off on another tangent with Isa 49:1-6 (the second Servant Song); however, we still haven’t finished with who is speaking in Isa 52:13-53:12. It’s as if everyone keeps dodging the question; let’s focus like a laser beam on this ONE topic so we can move on.

@danny,

What an exemplary display of “Christ like” love!

Remember, you have choice to participate in the conversation or ignore it; I can’t make that decision for you.

Have a great day!

@Berean

You don’t read the end of the book, you start at the beginning, and to understand this “ending” one must understand the “beginning.” All must be put into context. Who is speaking where in this “song”? Once we have this established we will move on.

Also, who is the “servant” spoken of starting in chapter 41? If you are unsure, please…[Read more]

@Gene

@Berean

You aren’t listening to my words; nowhere have I implied Israel died for anyone’s sins. Go back to some previous posts and re-read. You and Berean are trying to merge two separate ideas – what I am reading in this passage and what you believe the passages states.

You still haven’t told me who you believe is speaking in the follo…[Read more]