Quote (Stu @ Dec. 22 2009,14:33)I don’t know what Gandhi might have accomplished against Saddam Hussein.  He was assassinated befire the question arose.  Who knows what might have happened if the war criminals Bush and Blair had allowed the UN to continue in their process?  They didn’t exactly give diplomacy a chance to run its course, did they?…[Read more]

Quote (Stu @ Dec. 22 2009,14:19)BDQuote What do you mean how do you get the knowledge from God? You study the creation just like you are doing now: Well that knowledge, gained from ‘studying the creation’ says that Darwin was right.  You must have some other source of god knowledge that says he was wrong.  This is not a matter of inter…[Read more]

Quote (Stu @ Dec. 22 2009,13:55)Quote Nor take life – which Allah has made sacred – except for just cause. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, we have given his heir authority (to demand retaliation or to forgive): but let him not exceed bounds in the matter of taking life, for he is helped (by the Law)Wouldn't you say that 'just cause' is pretty…[Read more]

Quote (Stu @ Dec. 22 2009,13:30)BDWhat is your god’s attitude to knowledge that does NOT ‘light the way to heaven’, or show the 'oneness' of allah, but tends to lead people not to believe in such doctrines?The scholars held in the ‘highest esteem’ are the religious ones today. Presumably other scholars have had to submit to allah, so whatever…[Read more]

Quote (Stu @ Dec. 22 2009,13:18)Quote (3) If a man kills a believer intentionally, his recompense is Hell, to abide therein (For ever): And the wrath and the curse of Allah are upon him, and a dreadful penalty is prepared for him.  ( An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #93)But if he kills a non-believer, well that is a different matter.Stuart Nor take…[Read more]

Quote (Stu @ Dec. 22 2009,13:03)Quote To submit does not mean not to question in-fact submission requires constant inquiry for the benefit of the proper application of knowledge.You seem to think that Submission is a sort of blindness but instead it is for proper Guidance, it is always those who do not submit to knowledge that are blind and deaf…[Read more]

Quote (Stu @ Dec. 22 2009,12:54)People do resign on principle, and institutions do not collapse.  What kind of situation would require you to see all of humanity as unworthy of your assert?Regarding protection of community, is the first equation in your head protecting community = killing outsiders?  That would seem to be the attitude of the i…[Read more]

Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 22 2009,12:49)Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 22 2009,12:27)have echoed throughout the history of Islam and incited Muslims to seek knowledge wherever it might be found.Hi BD,If this were true then why are they not allowed to get knowledge from Christians or Jews?Ed JOf course they, are have I not openly accepted your mathematical…[Read more]

Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 22 2009,12:10)Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 22 2009,11:53)“Thou shalt not kill”Hi BD,Are you that unfamiliar with the Bible?If it were translated today it would say…Thou shall NOT commit premeditated criminal Homicide.We murder animals for food; the bible is not talking about war killings either. God blessEd…[Read more]

Quote (Stu @ Dec. 22 2009,11:37)There is plenty of Abrahamic scripture that says I was not meant to know things, and will not be allowed to know.  Ask people here what their scripture says about the 'knowledge of men'.  I think you will find yourself in the minority if you believe that god is said to want people to have knowledge.  The con ar…[Read more]

Quote (Stu @ Dec. 22 2009,11:39)Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 22 2009,11:09)If a person believes in what was given to Muhammad which includes believing in Jesus isn't that salvation coming through Muhammad by way of Jesus and further still by the grace of God?So don't the Jews have the right approach then?  Cut out both middle men.StuartYes the Jews…[Read more]

Quote (Stu @ Dec. 22 2009,07:20)The difference between my existence and the existence of your god is that there must be something (calling itself Stu) encoding concepts in a common language.  The probablility of the internet just putting up random letters and chancing upon sentences that are on the same subject as your sentences is just too…[Read more]

Quote (Stu @ Dec. 22 2009,06:58)Re apostacy as an ethical move:  I think your examples illustrate what I was claiming:.  I think a teacher who feels the school system is corrupt SHOULD stop being a teacher!  Or do something pretty active to change it.  We could debate the ethics of Henry VIII but essentially he didn’t like it so he let his feet…[Read more]

Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 22 2009,06:36)Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 21 2009,12:55)Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 20 2009,19:32)Quote (Stu @ Dec. 20 2009,17:32)Quote Why is the Bibles center Chapter, the smallest Chapter of the Largest Book? Huh?StuartHi Stuart,Have you ever heard of a fractal?Chapter 117 illustrates fractal consistency concerning… “GOD The…[Read more]

Quote (Stu @ Dec. 22 2009,06:15)BD I should be clearer about the ugliness of gods: it is specifically that a creation will necessitate being incomprehensible and therefore inquiry and discovery will ultimately hit a wall of magic that cannot be penetrated.  This is a personal reaction to creation myths: it is my aesthetic response that things…[Read more]

Quote (karmarie @ Dec. 21 2009,18:53)BodWhy do you waste your time trying to change an athiest? An athiest USUALLY will not change, untill some actual proof is given, ….if an apple is infront of them, they know theres really an apple there, Take Santa claus, we tell our kids “santas coming!” they believe its santa delivering the presents, this…[Read more]

Quote (Stu @ Dec. 21 2009,16:16)BDQuote To be honest, this is what I have been saying all along. The essense of God is a Quality within a person and not a proclamation. When this Quality is with someone it is a reward within itself therefore many Sufi mystics have stated that “Lord, if I follow you simply to enter heaven send me to hell”So there…[Read more]

Quote (Stu @ Dec. 21 2009,17:30)Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 21 2009,10:43)Quote (Stu @ Dec. 21 2009,07:40)BD if all the atmospheric oxygen disappeared we would be in danger instantly.  If all bodies of water vanished we would be in strife pretty soon.  A lack of food would begin to kill us within weeks.  If love and human company deserted us we wo…[Read more]

Quote (Stu @ Dec. 21 2009,17:21)BDI do believe in personal responsibility, so when an islamist says that he is doing something in the name of islam I associate with him all people who also claim to do things in the name of islam, which muslims do routinely and far more vehemently than christians in my experience.  All muslims are responsible for…[Read more]

Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 20 2009,19:32)Quote (Stu @ Dec. 20 2009,17:32)Quote Why is the Bibles center Chapter, the smallest Chapter of the Largest Book? Huh?StuartHi Stuart,Have you ever heard of a fractal?Chapter 117 illustrates fractal consistency concerning… “GOD The Father”=117Despite God's enormity he is concerned with the seemingly…[Read more]