Is 1:18 wrote:Quote You and I are clearly at opposite ends of the christology continuum and are unlikely to convince each other of anything…but for the sake of others, who may be undecided, I will answer…Agreed.  We need not traverse the circle again – at least not for now.   I would like to respond briefly to your concluding thought t…[Read more]

OK, Is 1:18, we haven't done this dance in a little while, so I'll go 'round the circle one more time with you.   Honestly, I don't get the distinction you are making.  Let me try to simplify this as much as possible.Case 1:Quote Prophecy:“Thus saith YHWH, In this thou shalt know that I am YHWH: behold, I will smite with the rod that is in mine h…[Read more]

worshippingjesus wrote:Quote Blind Leading the Blind! Great!  I presume by this comment that you are an enlightened one.  That being the case, can you help me with the verse that I asked Is 1:18 about at the end of my post?1 Corinthians 8:5-6:”For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many l…[Read more]

Greetings Is 1:18 and Adam Pastor!Interesting debate you are having here.  I am sure you won't be surprised, Is 1:18, but I side with Adam Pastor on this one.  What amazes me though is that you, Is 1:18, seem to be a bit blinded to the shortcomings of your position, despite a couple of people pointing it out to you.  Against my better judgment, I…[Read more]

Nick,What you have affirmed is that the prophets “got it wrong” and that the scriputres are unreliable.  According to the book of Samuel, YHWH says to David:”When your days are fulfilled and you rest with your fathers, I will set up your seed after you, who will come from your body, and I will establish his kingdom.”Nick says:”Scripture also…[Read more]

Nick wrote:Quote Hi WIT and Adam,Do you discrimate between the Righteous and unrighteous dead?I believe Jesus does. That is why he said God is the God of the Living and how Abraham rejoiced to see his day.That may be also why “death” is cast into the lake of fire before death itself is defeated as the final enemy in 1Cor 15. “Death” here may be…[Read more]

Nick wrote:Quote Hi WITDo you think then that these angels can be saved? Was the message of salvation also for angels? Where is it written?1 Peter 3:18 doesn't say anything about salvation.  One can preach, or proclaim, good news or bad.Now here's a question for you:Do you believe that the human spirit goes to “prison” or to YHWH at death?

epistemaniac wrote:Quote yep… that difference of opinion re our spirits living on after death is creating quite a different perspective on things…. thats ok for me, the clincher on this doctrine are the following passages:(2 Cor 5:6-8 NASB)  Therefore, being always of good courage, and knowing that while we are at home in the body we are…[Read more]

Nick wrote:Quote Hi WIT,Was Lazarus deadOr asleep?Or both? I believe that Lazarus was literally dead.  However, in the eternal scheme of things, one could think metaphorically of Lazarus as being asleep, because we will all be “reawakened” during the resurrection.Nick wrote:Quote Hi WITIYou say”If someone is both dead in a tomb and alive…[Read more]

Nick,In my view, spirit is the breath that YHWH gives us that causes us to be alive.  When we die, that breath leaves us, and our bodies live no more.  Thus, when Y'shua committed his spirit to YHWH on the cross, he immediately breathed his last, (Luke 24:36).  The word “spirit” has other meanings, and are used in different ways in scripture, bu…[Read more]

epistemaniac,Ah!  I see the problem now.You said:Quote as far as number 3 goes, then to be consistent in your reasoning, you would have to say that so too when a person dies and their spirit lives on, they must be 2 different people, clearly, this is not the case.The problem is that I don't share your presumed belief that when a person dies their…[Read more]

I wasn't for a moment offended by what you wrote.  I like a good pun as much as the next fellow, and I can tell that you aren't being hateful towards me.We are just having a spirited debate, and a little levity on occasion can be refreshing.  

epistemaniac,I see that you are back and as feisty as ever!  Despite being on opposite sides of this debate, I still appreciate your presentation style.  You are clear and concise in your beliefs.Aside from some peripheral matters, (which we can certainly discuss if you think it necessary), your response to my “dim”-witted observation is t…[Read more]

epistemaniac,The most relevant post to you is on page 13 of this discussion thread.  It is my first post after your last post on that page.Sorry to hear that things aren't getting much better for you.

epistemaniac,I am sorry to hear about your condition.  I pray that you find some relief from the pain soon.Also, I posted my thoughts in the other thread, because it wasn't quite pertinent to this one.  But, now that we have already started discussing its subject matter, I will repost it below for reasons that will soon become obvious.Quote (…[Read more]

Quote (epistemaniac @ July 28 2006,10:01)Quote (Cubes @ July 28 2006,01:12)YHWH died on the cross to satisfy YHWH? Last I heard, he was going to scrap all of Israel and start over again with just Moses!  Now he decided to have us kill him so that he can forgive us for killing him and redeeming us all back to glory?  Gluey fly trap stickiness on t…[Read more]

epistemaniac,Greetings!  It has been a long time indeed!  I have read much of the discussion over the past few days, and I must say that I admire your willingness to engage in this debate.Nevertheless, I do strongly disagree with much of your logic and many of your conclusions.  You have written far too much in the last few days for me to re…[Read more]

seminarian wrote:Quote Sorry Whatistrue but MY question proceeds yours.Answer mine first as that is the topic of the question I FIRST POSEDregarding John 17:5 and not the other that you are trying toinsert and deflect attention to.Fair enough.  I presume then that you are going with option #1 in my last post which was:Quote Now read John 6:51-60…[Read more]

Seminarian,You miss my point.  My understanding of John 17:5 is similar to my understanding of John 6:51-60.  Neither passage is strictly literal in meaning.In other words, your question is based on a false premise.  Your question is the equivalent of me asking you:Now read John 6:51-60 and tell me how does someone receive eternal life without li…[Read more]

seminarian wrote:Quote I asked Adam from the Pasture… .Interesting personal insult.  Is this part of your gospel?seminarian wrote:Quote More false teachings from an even more false prophet.  They are so delusional that they don't want anyone to see thier leader's death certificate.  Do you know why?  Dr. Paul Wierwille taught that if you bel…[Read more]