Hi DavidYes, I'm still here – you said you'd come back to this, so I was biding my time! Sorry for the confusion, I should have told you what I thought the story was I'm very interested in the verses you use to prove that a limited number of people go to heaven, and also in your interpretation of the verses that I raised.I do have some thoughts…[Read more]

http://www.christadelphia.org/pamphlet/israel.htmThis is an article that addresses the return of natural Israel to their land, and their future repentance. Romans 11 could be no more clear

Quote (david @ Feb. 08 2006,07:17)REVELATION 3:21“To the one that conquers I will grant to sit down with me on my throne, even as I conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne.”ISAIAH 66:1“This is what Jehovah has said: “The heavens are my throne, and the earth is my footstool. Where, then, is the house that YOU people can build for me,…[Read more]

David,I agree with almost everything you say about Christians being a spiritual Israel, as opposed to natural Israel. But the whole point is, that one day natural Israel is going to repent. How could Romans 11 possibly be more clear? What about the all the Old Testament prophecies that necessitate natural Israel living forever in the land? And the…[Read more]

Finally, I just want to quote the following from wikipedia, which I assume has the respect of most people that are going to read this. Quote The concept of heaven was allegedly imported into Judaism from Zoroastrianism, perhaps by the prophet Daniel through his exposure to the Zoroastrian Magi of the court of Darius I. The belief in heaven appears…[Read more]

3) Will the capital of the kingdom be literally Jerusalem, in literal Israel?I hope it's plain by now that the answer to this is emphatically yes. But does literal Israel still have a part to play in the plan of God?—————————The apostles thought so:Quote “When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, <…[Read more]

2) Where will Jesus be in the kingdom – heaven or earth?Much of the evidence for this has already been discussed above. In summary:God's purpose is with the earth. If that is where God's purpose is, surely that's where we would expect to find Jesus when the purpose has been fulfilled.Jesus was, as is, heir to the promises to Abraham, Isaac and…[Read more]

1) Where will the kingdom be – heaven or earth?I believe that God's purpose is primarily with the earth:Quote “But as truly as I live, all the earth shall be filled with the glory of the LORD.” (Num 14:21)“For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not i…[Read more]

I guess there's a couple of different issues at stake here:1) Where will the kingdom be – heaven or earth?2) Where will Jesus be in the kingdom – heaven or earth?3) Will the capital of the kingdom be literally Jerusalem, in literal Israel?These overlap quite a lot, but they're subtly different. I'll post about these seperately.

Hi DavidQuote (david @ Feb. 07 2006,22:40)Sammo, speaking of Heb 11, you say:Quote “Moreover, verse 40 tells US that the promises that all the faithful people of the Old Testament looked forward to are the same promises that WE look forward to – and that we're all going to get our promise at the same time.”But if you look, you will see two gro…[Read more]

Quote (Adam Pastor @ Feb. 07 2006,22:16)The heavens and earth will be “new” because they will be reborn, regenerated, restoredHence, just as saints are “new” creatures after rebirth …(2 Cor 5:17) Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.So it will be for the creation…[Read more]

Hi DavidThanks for your reply. Don't have time to do justice to your posts right now, but I promise I will come back to them.But something I'd like you to think about from Hebrews 11 – Hebrews being the book that you're drawing many of your ideas from.Quote 39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:40…[Read more]

Quote (liljon @ Jan. 31 2006,20:36)do men go to heaven yes. Also there is life after death. http://www.bible.ca/su-extinction-refuted.htmHi liljonYou might have waited until I had presented some of these passages before linked to a website that refuted them, but never mind Quote Abused Text #1Jn 3:13 says, “And no one has ascended into heaven, but…[Read more]

Hi DavidQuote (david @ Jan. 31 2006,20:09)Several scriptures point to the time when the meek will inherit the earth and the wicked will be removed. (Mat 5:5; prov 2:21,22, ps 37:9-11)But while the Bible speaks of a “new earth,” it also speak of “new heavens.” (Is 65:17; 66:22; 2 pet 3:13; Rev 21:1)M’Clintock and Strong’s Cyclopaedia (1891, Vol…[Read more]

Hi David, liljon – I'm busy today, but I promise I'll come back to your posts in the next couple of days.ThanksSam

It's all in the article I linked to. The usage of the word “worship” has changed over time.

I appreciate your attitude, but I think you need to be a little more critical of the website you posted.Quote (Scripture Seeker @ Jan. 31 2006,07:57)Doesn't Scripture make it extremely clear?Absolutely not. If you had never heard of Christianity before and picked up a Bible, do you honestly believe that you would come to the same conclusion as…[Read more]

I don't believe in going to heaven when we die – I believe that we are dead until Jesus returns to earth, when the dead are raised and judged and God's kingdom is established in Jerusalem.More at http://www.theplan.co.nz/resources/4.html

Hiya SultanI can't commit a lot of time to this, so it makes sense to link to other people's articles – trust me, I've done the work myself as well. The theme of a new creation in the NT is solid as rock, trust me – there were quotes about this is the first article I linked to.So far as Colossians 1 goes, the point is that Jesus is the firstborn…[Read more]

Quote (Sultan @ Jan. 25 2006,21:38)Quote (Sammo @ Jan. 25 2006,14:56)“In the beginning was the word”… – read Genesis 1 More here.I found this an interesting read. The one area where I find contradiction to the Bible is”Christ was certainly God's spoken word in action – and therefore His representative on Earth – but that was all. He did not pre…[Read more]