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[SHN]

P.S. In the last above paragraph I forgot to add a sentence in between "became flesh (through Jesus) and dwealt among us." and "to say that would be the same as saying the ten commandments…."

The missing line is: " Most translate this as Jn 1:14 says that Jesus is God but,……."

[SHN]

Global,

I have just read your scriptures that you believe enforce that the Father, Son, and Holy spirit as being one God. Indeed, each scripture you gave, and each account of Christians A.D. until 100 A.D. (Barnabas, Hermas) ALL, every single scripture, actually SEPARATES the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. It is so blatant. I am not sure where you got your belief that Isaiah 48:16 translates "me" as YHWH. EVERY SINGLE COMMENTARY I"VE READ, calls the sender YHWH, and me as either the giver of the prophesy or indeed the Messiah. Either way, it does NOT translate to YHWH!! That is a false translation! (refer to Hebrew word for me in that passage. Also, Barne’s, Adam Clarke’s, Wycliffe, Holman’s, Jameisson faucet and brown, etc. commentary’s).

I really need to know where the Son or Spirit are ever referred to as YHWH? That is basically what I"m looking for. I.E., scriptural proof that the Son and Spirit are YHWH?? When I say, "By witness of T8, Global, and Sandi" I am clearly speaking of three separate witnesses (where 2 or 3 are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them, Matthew 2:18) and this is the reason for the pattern throughout the New Testament (58 that you list) of the three, Father Son Holy spirit, as a whole witness to Jesus Christ and what and who he is and represents. If these were indeed one, it wouldn’t be a whole witness (where 2 or 3 are gathered).

You also kept referring to the "Arians" dis-belief of Jesus being YHWH, as similar to the Jews dis-belief. Like I said before, God is calling me to search this out and this is all new to me. But what an insult. The Jews do not believe that Jesus was God’s Son, or that salvation comes through Jesus, how can you compare the two? (Acts 16:31 "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and ye shall be saved." 1Corinthians 16:22 "if any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema marantha[excommunicated from divine judgment]." Acts 15:11 "but we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, we shall be saved, even as they." 1 cor 10:17 "for we being many, are one bread and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread." John 15:7 "if ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, you shall ask what you will and it shall be done unto you." etc. etc.) So you are, indeed, our brother whether you like it or not. But to compare a brother, to one who denounces your Lord, Jesus Christ, is not a good thing!

Scripture definitely separates God, Son, Spirit, but you say that this verifies them being one? That’s what I need scripture for.

I once told someone on this site, that Jn 1:14 is a description of the Word (God) becoming flesh (in Jesus) and dwelling among us. To say that would be the same as saying that the ten commandments (the word written in stone) was God, and we should be worshipping those tablets. The old testament is a witness of the word’s nature through oral representation, the new testament is a witness of the word’s nature by living (flesh) representation…all a witness of the divine nature…NOT!! the divine One Himself (but His NATURE, through His law and then His Son).

Hope this helps understanding.

God Speed.
Sandi

[SHN]

Thank you, T8, I agree. The scripture "seek ye first the kingdom of God, and His righteousness, and all these things will be added unto you., Matthew 6:33" Is very profound. It is saying if all you do, is put the pursuit of His kingdom and His righteousness as your only pursuit, all of your needs will be met. "there is no other endeavor worthy of our time."

Take care, Sandi

[SHN]

Dear, Dear brothers T8 & Global,

Definition of Polytheist, let’s see, Poly means more than one and theos means god So Polytheist is one who believes in more than one God. How hard is this to humor a bloke and give the definition to him? But my word, Global, T8 is saying that he DOESN"T CARE FOR MEANINGS OF MAN’S WORDS, HE IS CONSTANTLY SEARCHING MEANING TO SCRIPTURAL WORDS. WHERE IS "POLYTHEIST" IN SCRIPTURE, OBVIOUSLY HE DOESN’T CARE WHAT OTHERS CALL HIM AND HE SURELY IS NOT WASTING HIS TIME DEFENDING HIMSELF TO MAN, HE ANSWERS TO GOD. (I.E. IF ONE WANTS TO CALL HIM A POLYTHEIST, HE LOOKS AT HIMSELF AND DECIDES WHETHER THAT’S TRUE, AND ANSWERS TO GOD FOR IT IF IT IS). who THE heck CARES???? YOU KNOW DARN WELL THAT T8 worships Yahweh and that is it!! QUIT BEING RIDICULOUS!! (both of you). Never, ever, ever has T8 said that in our restored state of SONSHIP (i.e. divine nature) that any of us will ever be worthy of worship. He worships one.

You, dear Global, on the other hand, can’t get off of your kick of avoiding questions by distracting the conversations back to "are you a polytheist? Hm, are you are you are you." Goodness, NOOOOOOOOOO, he’s not. There. Now answer my questions as to "WHERE DO YOU EXPLAIN HOW YOU GET YOUR THEORY THAT JESUS AND THE FATHER ARE DIFFERENT PERSONS, BUT SAME GOD" AND I PRAY THERE IS SCRIPTURE TO BACK THIS UP!

HARUMPH TO BOTH OF YOU.

~~Sandi~~

"The pursuit of this spiritual birth is the only endeavor worthy of your time on this planet. Seek ye first the kingdom of God, and His righteousness, and all these things will be added unto you."

[SHN]

GLOBAL,

Could you refer me to the posts in which you explain that Jesus and the Father are two different persons, same God? I didn’t see them, and I wasn’t aware of scripture stating such.

Thanks for Your time,
Sandi

[SHN]

In response to T8’s discussion with you Global,

Why is it so hard to understand that there is more than one god (lower case g) If there weren’t, what is the point of the first two commandments?? Does T8 worship any of these? I have never seen T8 give the glory to any of these "gods" , but only to the Living God of the Bible. Even we and satan and Jesus is referred to as "gods". But only because of the supreme maker of us. And so all of our, and I see all of T8’s, glorification should go to HIM. You must admit that scripture is FULL of reference to other gods. What is so hard to see about this?

In Christ,
Sandi

[SHN]

Global,

Would you please answer my question, how it is that if Jesus is God, how he is constantly praying to the Father. The most questionable moment, being from His last visit to Gethsemene, to the cross where He cries, "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me." I am so anxious for an explanation to this question.

Thank you for your time
In Christ, Sandi

[SHN]

Dearest T8,

Thank you for your reply! I agree that I will be blessed, because when the Father reveals Himself to you, your blessings become "anything from Him". In other words, though the world may see me as not very blessed in this world, or just a little blessed….they have no idea the blessings my heart receieves each day, moment that HE shares HIMSELF with me. My blessings are abundant, because I count HIM as THE blessing.

What’s more, you hit the mark in my situation. I am becoming a "heretic" as some would say, in the eyes of my family and friends…JUST FOR QUESTIONING THE MATTER!! Though it affected me deeply at first, I am so full of Joy that the Lord chose me to share Himself with…I don’t really mind. I know HE loves us all, but HE is taking me aside and revealing the "MYSTERY" to me! Praise Him for it! Thank Him, Thank Him!

God bless You and Yours,
Sandi (SHN)

[SHN]

Dearest Brothers T8 & Global,

I am 27 years old, and have been a Christian all of my life.  I have always believed in the Trinity doctrine.  I have recently been asked by God to search out even this doctrine.  Until now, I NEVER even thought of questioning this doctrine, after all, John 1:1 & 14 says it all.  But the Lord asked be to give these Christians some credit, and at least LOOK at what THEY have to say about the verses regarding "Jesus is God."  Which, in turn has led me to your posts.  They have been helping me a lot, and I thank you both for them.  You see, if we always agreed, we would never grow.  God is ripping my "foundations" out from under me, and replacing them with only HIM as a foundation.  One of those ingredients to my foundation has always been "Jesus is God."

I hope that my perspective on your postings my help, Dear Global.  What I see T8 is saying, is exactly what Paul is saying.  He is saying there is only one Divinity, that is our Heavenly Father, YHWH.  Now through our eventual transparency (sanctification), His divinity will shine through us. (which is the Kingdom message taught from Matthew through Revelation).  Just as you, Global, must believe as a trinitarian…that it is only THROUGH JESUS that we are sanctified…that doesn’t mean that you are God.  That means that you have the image of God…IMAGE OF GOD…through the transparency He has given you so that HE may shine THROUGH YOU.  (but it is always Him that is the light, you are just the bulb that He uses, He is the electricity that brings the light to the bulb).  So that is what T8 is saying, yes we will be LIKE GOD  (as I am like my father, I have his blood, I come from him), but how can we actually be God?  

Now I have a question for you, Global.  How do you explain verses like "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me"  I am confused as to the trinitarian explanation of so MANY of these verses, where Jesus separates himself from the Father…is He God or isn’t He?  IF so, how can He be asking HImself…(and why for that matter, God knows why!) why HImself has forsaken Himself???  Have always wondered about this one, and just explained it, "Well in this part of Jesus’ tribulation, he was Jesus the human" but how can that be?  He is either God or He isnt.

Thank you both for your generous open-ness.  I pray that God will use you to help me in this trying time in my life.

Peace Be in Your Hearts

SHN

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