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[Maranatha]

Quote (seekingtruth @ Nov. 29 2009,15:53)

I have read many of the lost books and some appear to be off the wall but some seem quite sound. For what its worth I use these writings to gain more understanding of scripture, but never to override them. My opinion – Wm

Very true….I would never try to override them. I just thought it was so interesting to see the very first prophecy of Jesus dying for our sins.

[Maranatha]

Quote (theodorej @ Aug. 22 2009,08:42)

Quote (Maranatha @ Aug. 22 2009,06:31) I guess not many people actually hear God's Voice…or if they do, they don't BELIEVE it is Him. Point is-IF God tells us that He is going to heal us, and to stop taking our medication in FAITH, then are we going to keep taking it and suffer? Or are we going to step out in FAITH and believe what God is telling us?  We can learn a lesson from the Israelites….. My pastor told us a story not too long ago.  He spoke about a man calling who had never been to our church.  He said that he needed prayer, but did not go into detail about his problem. He got to the church, and he was crippled-he could not walk without a walker.   My pastor was kinda freaked out, and said that he really didn't have much faith that God was going to do anything with the man…. Yet he prayed over the man's legs…..and he made a KEY POINT…he told the man to step out IN FAITH and to try to walk. The man ended up not only walking, but he went up and down the steps and jumped up and down!!!! God CAN heal…but we cannot LIMIT him by our own lack of faith. Greetings M….Did it ever come to mind that…maybe it is not Gods voice you are hearing…in addition faith is some thing you clearly need to understand….every time somebody buys a lotery ticket,they are convinced they are going to win…that is the kind of faith that exists on a grand scale today among many so called christians….God helps those who help themselves….

First off, you seem to be implying that I was making up the story about God healing that man through my pastor. This was a true story, if I did not mention that.

Also, I was not the one who said they heard God's voice telling anyone to stop taking medicines. But IF I heard God telling me that, I would know that He confirms what He says, and I would do my very best to step out in faith and EXPECT a miracle.

What sort of church do you go to? If they don't believe that God CAN heal today, and that God DOES speak to us today, then you need to find a different sort of church.

When I was a teenager, I had a serious problem in my legs. Severe pain. I was on crutches sometimes, and could not walk. Doctors could not figure out what was wrong,but they thought it was related to my diabetes, like severe neuropathy.

I walked in a new church (NOT on crutches btw), and I sat down and listened to the sermon, in severe pain, yet trying to hide my pain. In the middle of the sermon, the pastor, who did not know me from Adam….yelled out…”There is someone in here who God said He was going to heal!!”

I looked around to see who he was going to go to….and he walked straight up to me and laid his hand on me, and everyone around laid their hands on me and I was HEALED right there!!

The pain never came back!

So what would have happened if that pastor heard a Voice in his head saying “Walk up to that girl and lay hands on her because I am going to heal her”, and he IGNORED that voice, thinking it was not God??

I would probably be in a wheelchair right now!!

I praise God that there are still people out there who have enough faith to step out and BELIEVE when they do hear God's voice.

Again. I did NOT hear God telling me to stop any medicines. But IF I heard His voice, I would know that He is faithful to do what He says, even if it is not right at that moment.

[Maranatha]

Quote (karmarie @ Aug. 22 2009,22:07)

Why are you fearful, you of little faith? Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me. My eyes shall be upon the faithful of the land, that they may dwell with me     “Today, if you hear his voice,    do not harden your hearts”   O unbelieving and perverse generation,” Jesus replied, “how long shall I stay with you? How long shall I put up with you? … “Because you have so little faith. I tell you the truth, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live. Your faith has made me well

Touche'

I think I posted about my pastor. He had walked a member of the congregation out to their car and they talked awhile.

The member mentioned that he had cancer and was scared.

My pastor expressed his condolances, and walked off. As he was walking off, he heard God's Voice telling him to go back and pray for the guy-that He was going to heal him.

He walked back, laid hands on the man where his cancer was, and he literally FELT God healing him.

The man went back to his doctor a few days later, and there was NO sign of cancer after they did more Xrays. The doctors were totally baffled.

We HAVE to have faith.

[Maranatha]

Quote (Cindy @ Aug. 23 2009,07:07)

Maranatha  Are you not interestimg in what mt Husband has about Hell.  I agree with Him. Just tell me if you want to or not, so I don't keep the teread going. Irene

I don't mean to be rude, but no, I'm not really interested in it. I know what the bible says about hell. Sorry for my late replies to everyone's posts, but I visit several other groups online.

[Maranatha]

I guess not many people actually hear God's Voice…or if they do, they don't BELIEVE it is Him.

Point is-IF God tells us that He is going to heal us, and to stop taking our medication in FAITH, then are we going to keep taking it and suffer?

Or are we going to step out in FAITH and believe what God is telling us? We can learn a lesson from the Israelites…..

My pastor told us a story not too long ago. He spoke about a man calling who had never been to our church. He said that he needed prayer, but did not go into detail about his problem.

He got to the church, and he was crippled-he could not walk without a walker. My pastor was kinda freaked out, and said that he really didn't have much faith that God was going to do anything with the man….

Yet he prayed over the man's legs…..and he made a KEY POINT…he told the man to step out IN FAITH and to try to walk.

The man ended up not only walking, but he went up and down the steps and jumped up and down!!!!

God CAN heal…but we cannot LIMIT him by our own lack of faith.

[Maranatha]

Quote (Cindy @ Aug. 19 2009,18:55)

Maranatha!  God personally has never spoke to me, however I feel Jesus present and I ask Him, and He tells me, if I want to do something or not.  Also I have two good friends that died and afterwards I felt their present for a short time.  My best friend and I had many conversation about how it would be when we die.  She and I don't like pain.  So after She did, I wads sitting ab myself in my Bedroom and thinking of Her.  The whole room was filled with Love, which I never  experience before or again.  I asked Her how was it?  Her reply was not to bad.  She died of Cancer.  This happened twice with another friend.   God is so good and no matter what will happen to you know, be assured that we will one day have NO MORE PAIN, NO MORE SORROW. Only the truth will be taught. Scriptures tell us:”  Eye hath not seen and Ear hath not heard prepared for them that Love Him.”   Bless you and good luck with all.  Looking forward to seeing you and others on Heaven Net one day soon, I hope. With all my Love Irene

That's wonderful how God gave you peace after your friends died! Isn't He wonderful? I have had similar experiences with Him myself.

I had the exact same thing happen when my grandmother died, many years ago, when I was young. I believed it was my grandmother coming back to visit.

I don't believe it was actually your friends or my grandmother who came back from death to visit you though-but I do believe that God was letting you know that they are OK. The Bible teaches us that once a person dies, they do not “come back” to visit people.

I have also read that Satan and demons can disguise themselves as someone who has died, to confuse the person, and make them want to consult mediums so they can contact their deceases further, which would lead them into turning away from God. I don't know…..

But I do know that God will give us comfort when our loved ones die-and I believe that the “feeling” that you and I got that it was our friends/grandmother was NOT them actually coming back to us, but it was God putting their memory in our mind, and giving us that sense of peace and love so that we can know that He had them safely in His arms.

YAAHH!!

I have heard God's Voice, several times over the last couple of years. Once I was crying and worshiping Him, and I clearly heard “Come. Come to Me”

It was deep in my soul, and it was most certainly not my own thoughts at all-it was totally different, and I knew, without a doubt that it was God talking to me. He wanted me to give my burdens to Him.

Another time I kept hearing “Believe” deep in my soul, for several days. And then I was driving down the road, and not thinking about anything, and I heard “I will pour out my blessings on you, if you just believe”

I most certainly could never have come up with those words on my own, and since I felt complete peace when I heard them, I knew they were from God.

He speaks to us through other people too, although we have to trust that person, and to check it against scripture. He will confirm it again, another way, so we can know it is from Him.

One time I had my pastor pray over me, and he told me that God said to tell me that He wanted me to “be His Mary” and to spend more time worshiping Him.

I left right after that, and went to the door, where I ran into a friend of mine. She said….”I strongly feel that the Lord wants me to tell you something…..He wants me to tell you that He wants you to be His “Mary” and to worship Him more!”

It was bizarre! I stood there with my mouth hanging open, and I asked her if she had been standing there listening when the pastor was praying over me. She said “No-I just got here…”

So I KNEW that was from God, because of the confirmation, and because it lined up with scripture-of course God would want me to worship Him more.

God does speak to us in many ways….but we have to continually seek Him with all our heart. There's a verse in the OT (can't remember where) that says that God's eyes roam to and fro over all the earth, searching for those who's hearts are loyal to Him.

How neat is that? He's looking all over the world, to rest on people who truly seek Him!

Sure gives me motivation to worship and seek Him more!

Have a blessed day!

[Maranatha]

Quote (942767 @ Aug. 16 2009,13:19)

Hi Maranatha: You say: Quote My pastor says that after we are saved, we should never ask God to forgive us when we sin.   He says that we are already forgiven for past, present, and future sins under the blood of Jesus.  He says we should acknowledge the sin to God, and then thank Him for Jesus dying for our sins. This is what the scripture states: Quote 1Jo 1:6   If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:   1Jo 1:7   But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.   1Jo 1:8   If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.   1Jo 1:9   If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. As Christians we are to strive to obey the commandments that have come from God through our Lord.  We do not practice sin wilfully, but if we do sin, and we will, we must acknowledge our sins and ask him to forgive us with a repentant heart. Part of the Lord's prayer is asking Him to forgive us of our sin as we forgive those who have sinned against us. Love in Christ, Marty

Yes, I brought that up to him too. He said that those verses are talking about our INITIAL sins, before we asked Jesus into our hearts. Yes, we repent of those sins and ask forgiveness, and Jesus cleanses us.

My pastor is saying that AFTER we are saved, we are to simply take those sins to God and acknowledge them, and REPENT, but that we don't have to ask forgiveness, because those sins have already been forgiven when we asked Jesus into our hearts the FIRST time.

I'm the only one who was struggling with this. lol One strong Christian lady said that she was upset with his teaching, and she went home and opened up every concordance, commentary, and every other study aide she had, and went all through the Bible trying to find someone who asked forgiveness AFTER they were saved, and she couldn't find one.

I'm still asking forgiveness myself, but part of me is thinking…..”Jesus DID forgive my future sins, as well as my past sins….” so I'm still confused.

No, my pastor was most certainly not saying that we have no sin-he is saying that our sins have already been forgiven-past, present, and future ones. God knows when we are going to sin, but He has already forgiven that when we ask Him into our hearts-my pastor said to say something like….

“Father, I have sinned, and I acknowledge my sin to you, but I am so grateful to Jesus for dying for this sin!” or something like that.

He was saying that if we ask Jesus to keep forgiving us over and over, whenever we sin, it is like telling him that Him dying on the cross was NOT good enough to cleanse us of our FUTURE sins, only the ones that we had before we asked Him into our hearts.

[Maranatha]

Quote (Cindy @ Aug. 18 2009,15:54)

Maranatha!  Sorry if I upset you.  But at one time after I was diagnosed with Lupus and the Doctor wanted to put me on Steroid, I refused.  I knew what that Medication could do to a person.  I went to our Minister of the W.W, Church of God and the Elder of that Church laid hands on me several times and my Faith is strong, I thought maybe God would heal me.  I also had Asthma very badly.  That at times helped and took away an attack.  However as I got older, from being around the Bakery which we owned, the flour dust turned my Asthma into C.O.P.D and I am on 24 hour Oxygen.  I also have Diabetes and take Insulin.  It is now 31 years since I was diagnosed with Lupus.  That is a miracle, cause most die after 15-20 years after onset.  That is so great that I was able to meet all our Grand- Children and one Grandson is married and another is Engaged to be married.  What a blessing that is.  Right now we don't go to any Church.  Our believe is ant- trinitarian.  Those Churches that don't believe in that doctrine are mostly Sabbath Keepers.  We believe that we are under Grace and we can keep any day we wish, according to Paul. I feel that we have Gods Holy Spirit and every day is Holy to me. Well I did not want to preach to you and I wish you all the best and hope you will be healed. Peace and Love Irene

Yes, you have had many health issues, just like I have. I've had insulin dependant diabetes (Type 1) for 33 years myself, and have had a low blood sugar of 11. I should have been dead, but God kept me alive for some reason. I have no clue why, but I know that He knows best.

I have had many people pray over my diabetes too, but no one has prophecied that God said He would heal me of that, and I don't care…..the struggles I have with my mental issues are far worse than taking a few insulin shots every day, believe me, and I believe that my diabetes may someday be a HELP, rather than a hindrance. So it does not bother me.

You still are not comprehending the difference though, in what I am posting.

IF God spoke through a good, spirit-filled Christian person and told you to stop taking your medicines, and that He was going to HEAL you…..would you stop them, in faith?

Or would you ignore Him?

This is just a hypothetical question. lol

I have HEARD God speak to me. I was in a bad car wreck many years ago, and my car went over a cliff and flipped 3 times. As I was screaming, I clearly heard Him say…”Not yet-your time is not yet”.

I felt an immediete PEACE-like angels had carried my car to the ground. My car was completely totaled out and I did not have a scratch on me!

I KNOW when I hear my Father's voice……and IF He spoke to me and told me to stop taking a medicine, because He was going to heal me- then I would stop taking it…..but NOT before I heard Him telling me to stop.

There's a difference.

[Maranatha]

Quote (Cato @ Aug. 18 2009,02:53)

Quote (Maranatha @ Aug. 15 2009,08:42) We need to trust in the Lord FIRST, and pray to Him FIRST.  If He leads us to a doctor, then fine.  But He IS perfectly able to heal us all by Himself, WITHOUT a doctor. I know that sometimes God heals people immedietely.  Other times He heals them later, over time.  But we must NEVER believe that He is UNABLE to heal us, or that we should go to a doctor without consulting God FIRST, in ALL things. I have gone through deliverance before, and I literally felt the spirits leaving me.  Because of my weak faith, they did return a few days later…but the point is, they did leave.  I have a friend who was HEALED from Bipolar disorder, by his faith ALONE.   I KNOW God can do this! Why on earth would I want to go on a medication (IF I could afford it) that would cause me to be suicidal, violent, and gain 100+ pounds,etc. etc.? Why do you put God in a box and try to limit what He CAN do? I certainly don't limit God.  I merely state that God tends to work through creation rather then around it.  God along with hearts to pray, gave brains to think and arms to work.  You have a condition that effects how you deal with issues of religion and you want to rely on the area where your perceptions are afflicted for the sole source of your cure?  What would happen if all the farmers started praying for crops instead of working their fields?  Yes God could make food appear like mana, but why?  I am not saying don't pray, I pray everyday myself, what I am saying is that we must also use the tools we are given and not rely on supernatural intervention. If your spouse has a heart attack are you going to give CPR and call a doctor, or are you going to pray for guidance on what to do?  Pray yes but act and pray! Also there are a variety of non-pharmaceutical treatments for OCDs like yours.  Also there are places that provide free help in many areas.  You have the ability to post here so you have internet access, do the research.

You have completely twisted around what I said.

Of course I believe in medicines and doctors. I have Type 1 diabetes, and if I did not take my medicine, I would die.

BUT. If God spoke to me and said to stop taking my insulin, He was going to heal me, then why on earth would I call Him a liar and doubt Him and keep on taking it?

My friend was on medication for some kind of condition in her back or shoulder. Nerve pain or something. She was on a lot of medications. Anyway, one day God spoke to her and said that He was going to heal her. He told her to stop taking her medicine and take communion every day for 40 days, and He would heal her. She stopped taking it, and a couple of days later, Satan attacked her horribly, but she still did not take her medicines. God healed her at the end of 40 days!

My point is, is that God spoke through this guy, and He said that He was going to heal me. He did not say when. It could be years from now, I don't know. But He did say it. God knows how much this is limiting my Christian growth, and I know that He is building my trust up in Him and that WHEN He lets me know that He has healed me, then I will believe it.

But no-I certainly would not just stop taking medicines without God telling me not to.

I consult Him about EVERYTHING. He is my Father and I love Him and He knows what is best for me.

[Maranatha]

Quote (Cindy @ Aug. 16 2009,11:36)

Quote (Maranatha @ Aug. 15 2009,08:49) Quote (Cindy @ Aug. 13 2009,13:50) Marty!  That makes no difference.  Even if you just thinking in your head and cussing God out, it still is sinful.  Jesus on the Sermon on the Mount magnified the law and it counts. All you have to do is being angry with your Brother, and that is some time only in our minds and we sin, if we do that.  We have  murder in our hearts.   Peace and Love Irene Irene, are you saying that you believe that God is going to send me to Hell because of a disorder that I cannot HELP that causes these thoughts?  My Husband has written an Article about Heaven and Hell.   That's like a Christian who develops Tourette's syndrome-they cuss out loud for no reason at all…yet they can't help it.  Yet that person may have perfect faith in Jesus. That is saying that it is our WORKS that earn our salvation, isn't it?  I mean…you are saying that only a person who has PERFECT, CHRISTIAN thoughts will go to Heaven, not someone who has a disorder, but has great faith. Is that what you mean? No that is not what I mean.  By Faith we are saved and it is a free gift from God.   Ephesians 2:8 ” For by grace you have been saved through faith,  and that not of yourselves, it is a free gift from God. What I am saying is even thinking of a sin is sinful and we should ask for forgiveness of that sin.  It seems that you are aware of that sin.  Many times I have ask God to show me my sins, and I was not even aware of some of my sins in my mind.  I had blocked it out.  And that is what Satan does. Please don't be offended, I am just trying to help you see. If we read the Sermon on the Mount  were Jesus magnified sin.  I don't have the answer to your bipolar.  I do know that my Sons Girlfriends Daughter too has bipolar, and She tells me if She goes of the Medication, She throws everything in Her Mothers face.  I also know how expenses Medication is, but by the faith in God, my Husband has, we have survived.  If I would not take mine, I would die.  Nobody goes to Hell.  So many belief that there is a literal Hell.  That is not so.  Gehenna is a whole in the ground.   Jesus went to Hell or grave for 3 days and 3 nights. I tell you what, my Husband has as article about Heaven and Hell and when our Granddaughter comes next week I will make a new Tread about that.  Sje types faster then I.  I will show you then were it is. O.K. And remember always that God does Love You and you don't have to ask Him 50 times for forgiveness. Bless you! Peace and Love Irene

Yes, of course I understand that if we think a sin, it is a bad as doing it. Every one of us does it every single day, and if we say we are perfect and don't do that, then we are liars.

I have Scrupulosity. It is a form of OCD that causes horrid thoughts in your head, like cussing out God. I'm not INTENTIONALLY thinking them-they just pop into my head because of a disorder. There is a difference between PURPOSELY thinking of a sinful thing-like having sex with someone, or hurting someone.

Of course I apologize to God for thinking the thoughts that I am not WANTING to think-but if I did that every time I thought a bad thought, I'd be doing it every few seconds, all day long. I would not have TIME to praise God or anything like that.

I have had Deliverance done before….and I FELT this leave. I know this is demons. I don't know what kind of church you go to, but I know some of the very conservative churches, like Baptists, do not believe that a Christian can have evil spirits. This is untrue.

Jesus talks of a literal Hell. Revelations speaks of a Lake of Fire, where sinners will go unless they turn to Jesus and repent of their sins. I'm not “offended” at all, but if it is not in the Bible, then I don't want to hear about it, to be honest. You say that nobody goes to Hell? I think you should read Revelations.

There is a website I found that lists people's testimonies. Several people have mentioned having an NDO experience, or literally dying and going to Hell.

God allows this to happen to some people so that they can tell others that there IS a Heaven, and there IS a Hell.

I feel like I have somehow offended you because I believe that God DOES heal people who have strong faith. If God speaks to a person and tells them that He is going to heal them, and to stop taking their medicine, then why on earth would they continue to rely on taking the medicine?

I am not speaking of YOU, or of MYSELF when I say this. I just say that it did happen to a friend of mine-a strong Christian lady, and also another friend who was Bipolar. God TOLD them to stop taking their medicine, and when they stepped out in faith and did stop, they were healed.

Like I said-there is a difference in someone who just stops taking their medicines because it says in the Bible that God heals our sickness, and someone who God literally speaks to and TELLS them to stop taking it.

I feel like I have offended you because you have Lupus. Well, I have Type 1 diabetes, Fibromyalgia, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Bipolar, and OCD, as well as many other minor conditions.

But I know that IF God tells me to stop taking my medicine and that He is going to heal me, then I would stop. I would hope that you would have that same kind of faith if you heard Him telling you that He was going to heal your Lupus.

[Maranatha]

Thanks! On my “good” days, I do have a lot of faith. LOL

[Maranatha]

Great reply-thanks!

[Maranatha]

Thank you Marty…..I believe He will. He has been delivering people from all kinds of oppression and diseases and other medical conditions in my church lately-my church is very spirit-filled and people have been cured of cancer, depression, panic attacks, etc. etc-so I know that He is perfectly capable of doing it.

[Maranatha]

Quote (942767 @ Aug. 13 2009,14:09)

Quote (Cindy @ Aug. 13 2009,13:50) Quote (942767 @ Aug. 13 2009,11:49) Quote (Cindy @ Aug. 13 2009,11:38) Quote (942767 @ Aug. 13 2009,11:13) Quote (Cindy @ Aug. 12 2009,16:18) Quote (942767 @ Aug. 12 2009,16:04) Hi Maranatha, keep on trusting Him, and He will heal you, and I agree with you about the side affects on some of the medicines that the doctors want to prescribe is worse than the problem.  Sometimes God uses doctors to accomplish a healing, but I cringe every time they advertise a medicine for a certain problem and then go into their spill about the side affects. Love in Christ, Marty You know since I have Lupus, I have to take Medication.  If I wouldn't I would die.  So in many peoples lives they have to.  I also have Diabetes and if I would not take Insulin I would get very sick.  So not all Medication are bad, even though they all have side effects.  But the benefit for Med. outweighs the side effects, tho.  So in conclusion be a little kinder to those that are sick.  God has compassion, so we should too. The elders of the Church where we went laid hands on me many times.  I have excepted that God is saying to me, it is sufficient for you. I must have to learn something otherwise He would have taken me Home already.   Peace and Love Irene Hi Mrs: I am sorry if I offended you, but what I have stated is true.  I said that “sometimes the medicine that doctors want to prescribe is worse than the problem”.  I said “sometimes”, and I did not tell you not to take the medication that doctors have prescribed for your Lupus and your diabetes. I had to take blood pressure medication at one time until I learned proper diet and excercise, and so, sometimes it is necessary to take the medication temporarily, but I won't take the medication unless I absolutely have to take it. In the case of Maranatha, we are talking about a mental oppression, and not a physical condition such as yours. Love in Christ, Marty Marty!  Sorry I jumped to conclusion.  It is a very sensitive subject for me.  I don't like to take steroids and I have told some Doctors off, since He lied to me.  I called and ask a Druggist about a certain type of Steroid and I got the answer that it was. The Doctor had said that it was not a Steroid.  Needless to say I don't see that Doctor no more. As far as Maranatha is concerned, She has a bad case of depression and some times Medication does help for a short time.  I can't even imagine what She is going through.  To curse God out is a really bad thing to do.IMO Peace and Love Irene Hi Mrs: She isn't cursing God as I understand her.  These are thoughts coming through her mind. Love in Christ, Marty Marty!  That makes no difference.  Even if you just thinking in your head and cussing God out, it still is sinful.  Jesus on the Sermon on the Mount magnified the law and it counts. All you have to do is being angry with your Brother, and that is some time only in our minds and we sin, if we do that.  We have  murder in our hearts.   Peace and Love Irene No, Mrs., I disagree with you.  One can watch a telivision show with dirty language or listen to a secular song and these spirits will enter into your spirit, for example. What she has not cursed God unless it comes out of heart.  This an oppression of the devil and she needs our prayers.  She came here asking for help, and so, if you can't understand her situation, just pray and ask God to help her. Love in Christ, Marty

Thank you Marty, for your kind, Christian understanding and reply. God bless you!

[Maranatha]

Quote (Cindy @ Aug. 13 2009,13:50)

Marty!  That makes no difference.  Even if you just thinking in your head and cussing God out, it still is sinful.  Jesus on the Sermon on the Mount magnified the law and it counts. All you have to do is being angry with your Brother, and that is some time only in our minds and we sin, if we do that.  We have  murder in our hearts.   Peace and Love Irene

Irene, are you saying that you believe that God is going to send me to Hell because of a disorder that I cannot HELP that causes these thoughts?

That's like a Christian who develops Tourette's syndrome-they cuss out loud for no reason at all…yet they can't help it. Yet that person may have perfect faith in Jesus.

That is saying that it is our WORKS that earn our salvation, isn't it? I mean…you are saying that only a person who has PERFECT, CHRISTIAN thoughts will go to Heaven, not someone who has a disorder, but has great faith.

Is that what you mean?

[Maranatha]

Quote (Cato @ Aug. 12 2009,23:23)

Despite people's anecdotal evidence of spiritual healing, only a fool would rely on such without looking for more temporal help as well.  If your problem is religious obsession why rely only on that very same source of obsession for a cure?  Scrupulosity is usually treated by cognitive behavior therapy, not drugs.  In the United Kingdom, the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence recommends CBT as the treatment of choice for a number of mental health difficulties, including post-traumatic stress disorder, OCD, bulimia nervosa and clinical depression.  So trust that God gave you a brain and intellect to go get help from your fellow man.  Rather then expecting a divine miracle cure look to seeking help that can in the mean time alleviate or help you cope with what evidently is a long term problem.  This would include trained mental health professionals.

As I mentioned before….I do not have the MONEY to go to a shrink.

I also know that I have the faith to go to God FIRST for my problems. Unlike Asa in 2 Chronicles 16:12-13

“12In the thirty-ninth year of his reign Asa became diseased in his feet. His disease was severe, yet even in his disease he did not seek the LORD, but the physicians.

13So Asa slept with his fathers, having died in the forty-first year of his reign.”

Also….

“Jeremiah 17:5 says….”This is what the LORD says:
“Cursed is the one who trusts in man,
who depends on flesh for his strength
and whose heart turns away from the LORD. “

We need to trust in the Lord FIRST, and pray to Him FIRST. If He leads us to a doctor, then fine. But He IS perfectly able to heal us all by Himself, WITHOUT a doctor.

I know that sometimes God heals people immedietely. Other times He heals them later, over time. But we must NEVER believe that He is UNABLE to heal us, or that we should go to a doctor without consulting God FIRST, in ALL things.

I have gone through deliverance before, and I literally felt the spirits leaving me. Because of my weak faith, they did return a few days later…but the point is, they did leave. I have a friend who was HEALED from Bipolar disorder, by his faith ALONE. I KNOW God can do this!

Why on earth would I want to go on a medication (IF I could afford it) that would cause me to be suicidal, violent, and gain 100+ pounds,etc. etc.?

Why do you put God in a box and try to limit what He CAN do?

[Maranatha]

I don't have a problem with cleaning, or washing my hands over and over or physical things like that. Mine is strictly in my mind.

My OCD is called Scrupulosity, and it manifests as obsessing over and over if I am really saved, or if I have sinned. I most certainly do not need to pay a doctor $200 to tell me what I can look up on the internet and compare symptoms with everyone else who has the same condition. lol

The compulsions manifest in me as asking forgiveness over and over for the same thing, cussing God out in my head, and begging Jesus for salvation up to 50 times a day or more.

If I am out somewhere and hear someone say “GD”, it gets stuck in my mind and I'm cussing in my head over and over. It's an obsession.

Or I will read something in the bible that says something like….”For those who draw back, I have no pleasure in them”….and I'll focus on that, wondering if I have somehow “drawn back” from Jesus….and that brings on the compulsion of begging for forgiveness for “drawing back” over and over and over-like God did not hear me the first time when I apologized.

Then I start wondering if I am REALLY saved, if I am cussing over and over in my head (not out loud)…which brings me to asking Jesus into my heart 50 more times in a day.

It's a horrid nightmare.

Either way-God has shown me that NOTHING can separate me from the love of God through Jesus Christ. Not demons or angels, not bipolar disorder, not OCD, not anxiety, not things going on right now, or things that may happen later. NOTHING can separate me from His love.

This has made it easier to cope. I also found out that Martin Luther King and John Bunyon also suffered from this same thing.

A guy from my church was cured from Bipolar disorder years ago, and it never returned. He prayed and prayed for years ,and one day God healed him. Another lady prayed and prayed for her severe anxiety disorder to be healed, and God healed it after many years of trusting Him. Another lady got healed from severe depression. Again, it was God.

I cannot take pharmacutical medicines because I have a lot of food and chemical intolerances. Plus, the side effects are much worse than the disorder. I become suicidal on medicines. I do not trust doctors, and especially not the pharmacutical industry whatsoever, and no money to go to a shrink once a week anyway.

So I am trusting in God to heal me or to give me the grace to make it through my struggles.

[Maranatha]

Thank you Karmarie, for your testimony-that was awesome! Yes, God DOES hear us and He answers us in so many ways-it's amazing!

That does scare me what you said about the verse about cursing God. I don't do it out loud, but it's constant in my head, along with other horrid thoughts about people that are not in the least bit Christian.

I don't understand how a person can BE a Christian with all these horrid thoughts going on in my head-it baffles me. I don't seem to have changed much, other than stopping a lot of bad things I used to do.

Has anyone else had problems with bad thoughts about God and other people that won't go away?

[Maranatha]

Well, I have figured out what is wrong with me at least.

I have Scrupulosity, which is religious Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. It causes a person to obsess over their thoughts about God, salvation, etc, and then compulsively do things over and over to try to fix those thoughts. I have probably asked Jesus to come into my heart and save me about 500 times over the last couple of years! I get the cusswords over and over in my head, and I ask forgiveness over and over, repeat Bible verses in my head, etc. etc.

So now I know what my problem is!

Well, now the good part! I go to a very Spirit filled church, and I know they are so sick of me there for getting saved over and over, crying my eyes out over not knowing if I am saved, obsessing over hell, etc. etc…..

I have had so many people lay hands on me, and so many people who have given me “Words from the Lord” confirming my salvation……

In fact, I had 3 people at one time pray, annointing me with oil, and casting out demons out of me a few nights ago. Each one of them told me that the Lord told them I was saved. I have had many other people tell them that the Lord has confirmed this also.

Well, I told those people praying over me that it does NO good to tell me this if I cannot feel it myself, inside. I need to FEEL God's acceptance, and to FEEL like I am a “new creation” like I used to feel two years ago before these doubts started coming in.

They prayed and prayed, and one lady said that God told her I was saved, but that I had the “strongman” and his demons keeping me from believing it.

They prayed that God would SHOW me, inside that I was saved.

Nothing happened, and I went home depressed.

I went to bed around midnight and went right to sleep……

But then I woke up at 3am for no reason…….but I had PERFECT CLARITY that I was saved! I had utter joy and complete belief in my salvation,and I had TRUE belief that I was a “new creation”!!! I don't know how to describe it other than the fact that, for an entire day, God TOOK AWAY the Scrupulosity and let me KNOW that I was His child!!!!

This lasted an entire day, but I know that I am saved, even though all the doubts and obsessive thoughts are back, and I am still asking Jesus to save me over and over, and to forgive me.

This morning, something else weird happened. I have a lot of papers and books and pens on my nightstand. I was sitting in bed, reading my Bible and praying. There was no fan on in my room……

All of a sudden, for no reason at all, two ink pens laying on my nightstand just literally JUMPED off the stand and landed on the floor. At the same time, an index card FLIPPED onto my bed, almost on my lap. I picked it up and it was Romans 8:38-39 that I had written on it…..

“For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.”

There was no fan blowing in my room this morning. I had not bumped the table, causing the pens and index cards to jump on my bed. I felt no fear, but peace. So I know that it was God who had let this happen because He wanted me to KNOW that the Scrupulosity I have suffered from does NOT separate me from the love of Jesus Christ, my Lord!!

Hallelujah!

[Maranatha]

Karmarie, thank you so much for your post! You are the very first person who has experienced what I have gone trough! And yes, when those feelings of being so close to God go away, it is terrifying! It's like being a tiny baby whose father ran off! And yes, it does make us desperate to be close to Him again.

I am starting to think that God KNEW what I would be going through, and how shaky my faith is with all my health problems causing moods to go up and down. So He gave me those wonderful feelings of closeness and love, the visions, the dreams of Jesus, etc…….

So I would have something to REMEMBER and fall back on when I am going through this “valley of the shadow of death”, so to speak.

I was like you-I turned to different doctrines, and believed that I had to do things to please God. I still struggle with this……

Satan put me through the ringer too, telling me that I was not saved over and over.

But this (I can't remember if I already posted this) helped me….I'm reading “Pilgrim's Progress”, and Christian is going through the Valley of the Shadow of death, and he does not feel God's presence at all….all he hears is demons cussing God out. He does not know if the voices are inside his own head or not!

And this is what I struggle with too-the cussing in my head, cussing God out. I have talked to many other Christians who have that too, and I am learning to SEPARATE those voices from what the Bible says.

Another story in the Bible has helped me a lot. It's the story of Jesus talking to his Disciples about eating His flesh and drinking His blood (symbolicly of course),and they said that it was too hard of a teaching, and many left.

Jesus looked at His remaining disciples and said…..”Do you also want to leave Me?” Peter said….”No Lord-where would we go? You have the keys to eternal life!”

This verse gets me every time I am struggling so hard and almost give up fighting. It's like I see Jesus looking at me, saying….”Do you also want to leave Me?”

I picture Him asking me that question, with love in His eyes. I KNOW that He has the keys to eternal life!

There is no choice BUT to follow Him!

As for the other questions…hope I can remember them! No, I do not have a mentor. I really wish I did, because I have reall been lost…..

No one helped me understand about faith verses works. I go in church, and everyone is SO far ahead of me spiritually. I get confused and forgetful so easily.

But anyway, I'm hanging in there, and trying my best to focus on Jesus, whatever that really means. lol

[Author]

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