Mikeboll said:Quote Which one of those translations say “no god will come into being after me”?TO ALL:Mike is really a piece of work isn't he? It says that no god came into being before YHWH and that after Him none shall exist.the Roo

Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 18 2010,01:59)Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Aug. 18 2010,09:48)Mikeboll said to WorshippingJesus:Quote Sorry WJ, this doesn't have so much to do with the unimportant word “today” as it does with the fact that scriptures don't even come close to implying some mystical “begetting” of Jesus.How about Jonah who said that he cried the…[Read more]

Mike,You say that I misunderstand what you and Kathi are doing. Do I really? What do you think is the reason that Shimmer said that the discussion about the fathers “disturbed” her and that she had to pray for peace about it? Could her conscience have been afflicted by your insinuations that those who do not hold to the father's beliefs, that is,…[Read more]

Mikeboll said to WorshippingJesus:Quote Sorry WJ, this doesn't have so much to do with the unimportant word “today” as it does with the fact that scriptures don't even come close to implying some mystical “begetting” of Jesus.How about Jonah who said that he cried the “WOMB” of sheol and the Lord heard him (Jonah 2:1-2)? Wouldn't this suggest that…[Read more]

Mikeboll said to WorshippingJesus:Quote Sorry WJ, this doesn't have so much to do with the unimportant word “today” as it does with the fact that scriptures don't even come close to implying some mystical “begetting” of Jesus.Keith,Did I miss the day that God gave Mike the authority to declare which words that come out of God's mouth are…[Read more]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 17 2010,17:22)Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 17 2010,01:17)Here's a part of what Eusebius wrote to the members of his Diocese after the Nicene Council.  After making it abundantly clear that the “one in essence” and the anathema was force fed down their throats by the Emperor, he seems to be explaining away the anathema…[Read more]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 17 2010,17:22)Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 17 2010,01:17)Here's a part of what Eusebius wrote to the members of his Diocese after the Nicene Council.  After making it abundantly clear that the “one in essence” and the anathema was force fed down their throats by the Emperor, he seems to be explaining away the anathema…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 17 2010,11:56)Roo,Maybe you should come up with a different term than calling satan a 'usurper god.'Satan is the only 'god' that has actual being. All other gods are 'so called' gods (Paul) and exist only in men's imaginations. God did not create satan a god. Neither did God appoint satan to be a god. So how else did he…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 17 2010,11:45)Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Aug. 16 2010,16:57)Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 17 2010,08:41)Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Aug. 16 2010,15:32)Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 17 2010,03:57)Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Aug. 16 2010,09:50)Mike said:Quote It would seem strange for God to say there were no other gods at all, and then mention many…[Read more]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 17 2010,10:30)Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 16 2010,18:09)Could you please provide one verse where JESUS and no one else states that he is God?Does it matter if the Father and the Apostles call him God?Are you saying Jesus own words would be greater than the Fathers?WJKeith,dbf just wants to stack the deck.Jack

Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 17 2010,10:09)To all that say that Jesus is God,Could you please provide one verse where JESUS and no one else states that he is God?Not anyone else; Jesus only.Nor inferences of where YOU say that this Scripture means….Thanks,The Professordbf,When you say “not anyone else” do you mean the Father too? Will the Father's…[Read more]

davidbfun said:Quote Again, they believed that the begetting was from eternity for he always existed with the Father, and that could not mean a begetting by procreation could it?dbf,They were wrong! There is no such thing as eternal generation and WJ does not believe in it. He is just saying that this is what the fathers meant. Jesus was begotten…[Read more]

TO ALL:A Jehovah's Witness concurs that Jesus could not have always been the “only begotten Son”“If Jesus was always the 'only begotten son' he would have “always” been better than the other angels and his name would “always” have been better than thiers.”The JW even uses my argument from Psalm 89 regarding king David:“Also, King David prefigures…[Read more]

TO ALL:t8 has tentatively revoked my editing rights because I edited a couple of posts on this thread. I showed him that my editing did not change my argument in anyway and he said that he is fine with it. But I have to make the editing known to you before he can reinstate me. He said also that in the future I cannot edit after someone has posted…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 17 2010,08:41)Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Aug. 16 2010,15:32)Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 17 2010,03:57)Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Aug. 16 2010,09:50)Mike said:Quote It would seem strange for God to say there were no other gods at all, and then mention many gods througout scripture.Poor Mike! He just don't get it! The scriptures are…[Read more]

Mikeboll said to WJ:Quote Do you see that last word WJ?  SON!  How does a son normally come to be?Jesus came to be God's son in the same way as His father david which was by appointment.Quote 20 I have found David my servant;       with my sacred oil I have anointed him. 21 My hand will sustain him;       surely my arm will strengthen him. 2…[Read more]

Keith said:Quote The begetting must be understood as from eternity since the term “begetting” could be understood as something other than “Procreation”.Keith,The ancient “eternal generation” doctrine is the problem. Many modern trinitarians are dropping it for the “Economical Trinity” doctrine.Ontological Trinity: The trinity as it exists of…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 17 2010,03:57)Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Aug. 16 2010,09:50)Mike said:Quote It would seem strange for God to say there were no other gods at all, and then mention many gods througout scripture.Poor Mike! He just don't get it! The scriptures are replete with statements inwhich God said that the gods exist in the people's own…[Read more]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 17 2010,07:12)Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 16 2010,11:40)Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 14 2010,18:49)Keith,In another thread, you said that you totally agree with the Athanasian Creed that states this:Quote Furthermore it is necessary to everlasting salvation; that he also believe faithfully the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus…[Read more]

Keith said:Quote There seems to be some ambiguity among the Fathers over the begetting issue and hence the “Arian Heresy”. The Niceen Creed cleary states that it was anathema to say there was a time that the Son was not, that in itself tells us that they could not have believed Jesus was a God begotten from another God as in procreation.Keith,Yeah…[Read more]