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[Jill]

Quote (seekingtruth @ Aug. 02 2006,22:31)

Please compare what you’re taught not to what I or anyone else says, but only to what scripture says.

I will keep that in mind. Thank you.

[Jill]

Quote (camrezaie @ Aug. 02 2006,22:13)

lol… so what? who says u have to listen to what anyone is saying; how about just listening to what the scriptures are saying… basically what the person told you is to not listen to the word of imperfect man… well then how about you go ahead and take your own advice and not listen to the word of man also or in otherwords a CREED/DOCTRINE. after all the bible says: 1 John 4:1 Beloved ones, do not believe every inspired expression, but test the inspired expressions to see whether they originate with God, because many false prophets have gone forth into the world. Psalm 146:3 3 Do not put YOUR trust in nobles, Nor in the son of earthling man, to whom no salvation belongs. Matthew 15:3-9 3 In reply he said to them: “Why is it YOU also overstep the commandment of God because of YOUR tradition? 4 For example, God said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘Let him that reviles father or mother end up in death.’ 5 But YOU say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother: “Whatever I have by which you might get benefit from me is a gift dedicated to God,” 6 he must not honor his father at all.’ And so YOU have made the word of God invalid because of YOUR tradition. 7 YOU hypocrites, Isaiah aptly prophesied about YOU, when he said, 8 ‘This people honors me with their lips, yet their heart is far removed from me. 9 It is in vain that they keep worshiping me, because they teach commands of men as doctrines.’” 1 Timothy 6:3 If any man teaches other doctrine and does not assent to healthful words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, nor to the teaching that accords with godly devotion,

You are absolutely right. I'm not the smartest girl around..but I do try and I have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and try to gain wisdom through the Holy Bible.

Maybe it was pure fate..but the two topics I commented on in this Forum…was against everyones beliefs in here. That was basically two strikes in a row.

I think I will do more reading than commenting in here.

[Jill]

Quote (camrezaie @ Aug. 02 2006,22:01)

jill what are u talking about

I don't know. I'm new here too. I just joined yesterday. I know I got a friendly PM basically saying that this Forum was created by people that do no believe in the Trinity Doctorine. I think it was a friendly warning.

[Jill]

Quote (kenrch @ Aug. 02 2006,21:58)

Quote (Jill @ Aug. 02 2006,21:53) Quote (kenrch @ Aug. 02 2006,21:49) In any relationship respect, compassion and communication are of utmost importance, not control or domination May be you should read the scriptures again Okay…you are right and I am wrong.  Anything you say bro. That is just the point I'm not right!

Oh…don't be so modest. You are always right. If you think it…it is fact.

[Jill]

Hey camrezaie ….don't even try. I think this is a closed forum. Anotherwords…if we say anything different…we will be banned. I think it is best for us to leave.

[Jill]

Quote (kenrch @ Aug. 02 2006,21:49)

In any relationship respect, compassion and communication are of utmost importance, not control or domination May be you should read the scriptures again

Okay…you are right and I am wrong. Anything you say bro.

[Jill]

Quote (kenrch @ Aug. 02 2006,21:49)

In any relationship respect, compassion and communication are of utmost importance, not control or domination May be you should read the scriptures again

Okay…you are right and I am wrong. Anything you say bro.

[Jill]

Quote (kenrch @ Aug. 02 2006,21:19)

Eph 5:20  giving thanks always for all things in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ to God, even the Father; Eph 5:21  subjecting yourselves one to another in the fear of Christ. Eph 5:22  Wives, be in subjection unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. Eph 5:23  For the husband is the head of the wife, and Christ also is the head of the church, being himself the saviour of the body. Eph 5:24  But as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives also be to their husbands in everything. “Eph 5:25  Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself up for it;” And that is the way it is like it or not!  There is rank in heaven.  You ever hear of archangels (chief angel).  Are you going to cry because you won't be an archangel? Get over it!

Forgive me for belaboring this point. Nearly all New Testament scholars agree that the grammatical structure of the original Greek text ties Eph. 5:22 to the previous verse. (Vs. 22 contains no verb– which means the verb from the prior verse– vs. 21– is carried forward. This is normative Greek grammar, and ties the two verses together). This means vs. 22– “wives be subject to your husbands”– is one example of the “topic sentence” of vs. 21– “Christians be submissive to one another”. Of course this doesn't let women off the hook, nor does it make it any easier for me as a future wife to “die to myself” and put my future husbands interests before my own.

Sigh. . . some guys make me sick. Unrealistic, biased excuses to dominate women. In every relationship must we dominate and control each other? Even in friendship, does one friend control another? How ludicrous.

In any relationship respect, compassion and communication are of utmost importance, not control or domination

[Jill]

Gosh…camrezaie has way more scriptures…So I guess he has the knowledge of absolute truth too.

[Jill]

Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ Aug. 02 2006,17:11)

1 I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea: KJ I think there is a big difference between servant and deacon. Just remember these words, he who is least, will be greatest. Who was greater, the one washing the feet, or the ones getting their feet washed. As for your statement as a second class citizen. Come on sis. What does it say in the scriptures. It says that a husband is to love his wife as Christ loves the church and that the woman is to love her husband as the church loves Christ. Does not the same apply in the church. Here is where the problem lies. Woman came from man, not man from woman. She is the weaker vessel in the flesh. Yet, in the flesh only. That does not mean that it can not be overcome by faith in Christ. Am I not right? Yet, the apostles did give guidelines to safeguard the church against the weaknesses of the flesh. It does not mean you are a second class citizen. If any is to blame, it would be the devil. Do not blame God. So rejoice, for the same Christ who lives in you once you were saved is the same Christ that lives in all, men and women alike who are saved. And in this matter, it all comes down to the faith of the believer. All you have to remember is he who is in you is greater then he who is in the world. Praise God.

Okay..I get it.

As a women I have to choose to define myself as second best? According to you and your interpretation of the bible, women came second, and that in itself makes us not as good. Why complacent to the point that someone else's interpretation, even when blatantly cruel, is ok? Sad when men do not realize that we women contribute to how they are perceived.

We are suppose to be partners. Not servants.

God's intent for men and women to be partners is found throughout scripture, beginning in Gen. 1:27. The passage most often used to subordinate women, Eph. 5, actually teaches quite the opposite. Those trying to justify a lesser position for women will begin with vs. 22: “wives be subject to your husbands…” But the passage truly begins in vs. 21: “be subject to one another…” The same Greek verb, translated “be subject”, is used throughout the passage, applying to both husbands and wives. God does not intend our relationships to be governed by a top-down, “who's the boss” mentality. He intends us to follow the example of Christ, our servant-king. The Winter newsletter of “The Lydian network” (for Presbyterian women in leadership) includes an excellent article on mutual submission in marriage, with practical steps for conflict resolution. An excellent book on women's roles is “Women, Authority and the Bible”, ed. by Alvera Mickelsen.

[Jill]

Quote (seminarian @ Aug. 02 2006,17:01)

Hi Jill, Actually, I told you what sort of Forum this was in the first line of my post.  These people read their Bibles……throughly.  Many of us also are familiar with the original Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek languages that the Bible was translated from. So you will not be able to make scripturally unqualified statements such as, “Jesus is God in human flesh” without being corrected by what the Bible itself says about who Jesus is. I don't have all the answers either nor is my reasoning infallible.  However, that which I DO know, I will share.  For Paul said to “expose those who contradict”, [Titus 1:9]. What you wrote contradicted what God's Holy Word said about His Son.  This was done out of love for God our Father, Christ and you! Now that I've hopefully clarified that, would you like to actually respond to any of the scriptures I provided in my post which define who our Lord Jesus is?  My experience is when people can not discuss what was posted with scripture, they tend to want to talk about everything else. Bless you much! Semmy

I'm glad you have absolute truth.

[Jill]

Quote (seekingtruth @ Aug. 02 2006,01:30)

Jill, I've been married for 32 years (in a few months). I agree women can be deacons, as I understand scripture a woman could be a “pastor” over women, but that does not put them in authority over men.

Fair enough. I guess God just wanted us second class citizens.

[Jill]

Quote (seminarian @ Aug. 02 2006,03:27)

Jill, Welcome! Be forewarned, to hang around here you'll need to read your WHOLE Bible!  Very little gets by the folks here. If you are basing proof of Jesus' “diety” on his miracles, I'm afraid you are going to come up short. Semmy

Thanks Semmy. Now I have a question for you. What type of Forum is this? I just joined…but it seems to be filled with tension. I'm not here to prove anything. I know one thing…Jesus is my Savior and only through him I can be saved. Now all this other stuff…..does it concern our salvation? Do you have perfect knowledge? I sure don't. I can only rely on how I myself can interpet the Bible through study in prayer. If you interpet something different from me….does that make me wrong?

Jill

[Jill]

So who is Jesus Christ? God or Son of God. Are we not sons and daughters of God? If Jesus is not God…who is Jesus Christ?

[Jill]

Okay…this is going off track a little. I have a strong feeling you are single. But anyway…let's get back to the topic.

Does the Word of God forbid women to pastor churches?

I read the bible too…and I do not find any concrete scriptural evidence that forbids women to become pastors. It is all a matter of how you interpret. Let's look at 1st Tim 3:1 thru 7.

If anyone sets his heart on being an overseer, he desires a noble task. Now the overseer must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him with proper respect.

Anotherwords…If you can not manage your own family…you deffinately can't take care of gods church.

I found in the bible where a women was a pastor. It was in Romans 16:1 thru 2. Our sister Phoebe, a deacon in the church in Cenchrea will be coming to see you soon.

But you may say that in the bible it says that deacons must be men, but as you can see…Phoebe was female and a deacon. Therefore your argument that says a woman cannot be a pastor because the office of pastor is identified by the roles of men is made void since there is a woman (Phoebe) identified in scripture that served in a position in the church that is identified by the roles of men.

I rest my case.

[Jill]

It is all a matter of faith. No one has perfect knowledge. Trinity Doctrine as false? That is up to you. Pray about it to God. God has perfect knowledge.

[Jill]

God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are one. Jesus was God in human form. Only God could of committed those miracles.

[Jill]

Nah…I just turned 16. I'm not married. Let's talk about submission. Submission is part of love and understanding. You don't submit to someone just because he is a male. This person has to be worthy of God and a good husband. You assume I am angry? About what? Submission? It is all voluntary…just like God gave you a choice.

[Jill]

The Trinity might be a confusing subject for some people. Try remember that the Son of God is the word of the Father and Bby him and through him all things were made. Basically what that is saying is that Son is in the Father and the Father is in the Son by the unity and power of the Holy Spirit. God the Father, his Son Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit are one thus forming the Holy Trinity.

[Jill]

seekingtruth wrote:

God is pleased to use her, but she should never be put in position over men.

Or equal to men? So what you are saying…females will always be less than men…never equal.

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