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[Istari]

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*Quote* (Istari @ July 13 2011,10:16)How is it said that I am personal yet i post many many things of scriptural nature WHICH ARE IGNORED. Then SOMEONE SAYS I HAVE NOT ANSWERED THEM. they ignore what I say of Scriptures saying only that I insulted them And yet Terraricca posts against me saying NOTHING BUT 'You know nothing' with no content of value – yet that seems fine… Irene just keeps posting the SAME VERSES OVER AND OVER SEEMINGLY OBLIVIOUS OF ANY EXPLANATION as if simply posting a verse over and over and over provides an explanation. When I ask for clarification and definition I am abused saying they already posted a verse (yes, the same verse without explanation nor reasoning) They neither respond to requests for information nor offer any but just post abuse saying I know nothing yet never appearing to read what I explain to them… Mikeboll says he doesn't read what I write saying I write too much (yes, too much truth for him to refute so he shuts his eyes and IGNORES IT so he has a reason to say 'I never saw the truth that you wrote cos you write too much' yet … Yet… He will read whole swathes of WJ and KJ posts and Shimmers links and netBible references and FOREFather writings not to mention masses of chapters from Scriptures. He is ONLY LOOKING to read what he BELIEVES. this is not the way that someone learns… So the ANTAGONISM is rife on ALL SIDES yet MIKEBOLL NEVER GETS A TILE..  What gives..?

I received this as a WARNING for some reason.

Can someone point out EXACTLY where the abuse is in this post.
Expressing and presenting a summation is hardly abuse!

[Istari]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 13 2011,15:11)

Quote (Istari @ July 12 2011,21:09) Ok, much more to say from the little I have said…       That post was exactly 1833 words, dude!  And that's your “little” post?       Istari, you talk too much.

Mikeboll,
That was EXACTLY 16 word (Not including the content of the quote, numbers, expansion of apostrophed words nor the footer text)

Mikeboll – you talk too much!

[Istari]

Oops, here comes reality
Oops, not Mr Popularity
He's here to bring clarity
Not seeking for vanity
He showed faith, hope and charity
It didn't save him from calamity
They made fun, thought it Hilarity
Said this man talks pure fantasy
Yes, the saviour of humanity
Was hurt by their vulgarity

They laugh and they scorn
At the truth that was borne
But he resisted sinful urges
Even whips, chains and scourges

He was judged and found guilty
By witness's that were filthy
But when they hung him on a tree
His job was done: set Man free!

He was buried in a grave three days
Then Rose again, scriptures says
Was it him changed in several ways?
As many yeses as there are neys!

It's said His BODY was SPIRITUAL
And those words are Pivotal
Because there's a certain individual
Who says 'That isn't Scriptural'!!

“There's no resurrection”, says the Sadducee!
That's very unfortunate and Sad You See…
“We're already saved”, says the Pharisee!
Hmm… Not as Far as I See..

Now hear this reality:
It's about Sacrificiality
Put off Sin, put on Spirituality
Righteous, Holy, in totality
Body and Spirit – both in Parity
Enabled in God – True unanimity!

[Istari]

Terraricca,

Excellent post.

Your last post really summed up everything about you.

Thank you for your exciting opinions concerning the SPIRITUAL BODY.

[Istari]

It is unbelievable that Terraricca says to me 'Do not speak of the dead' when 1 Corinth 15 is speaking concerning THE DEAD and how they are raised up.

I don't get it. Terraricca just seems to pour unspirituralness over everything I say with totally disregard to it's content.

I think his response is a testament to himself and his own behaviour in that he had nothing to say except scorn.

I asked Scriptural questions concerning how the dead are raised but he says I shouldn't ask about HOW ARE THE DEAD TO BE RAISE.

Paul calls them that ask 'Fools' but my asking is not from NOT KNOWING but from trying to get to grips with the HOW of Terraricca's presentation.

Also, Terraricca, you seem to comfort you lacking in knowledge by wearing it as a badge of honour – it is COOL TO BE IGNORANT… I think you will find that the Scriptures does not mean it in the way you think.. There are plenty of Scriotures that attest to 'Those in darkness and ignorance' – I don't think that that was meant as a badge to be worn with pride!

You WALK the WALK in your ignorance – You TALK the TALK in your ignorance.
You pride yourself in your ignorance – you fall by that same pride.

Terraricca, Why not just answer the questions?

[Istari]

Only one point though.

A righteous person – like Moses, or David ..could call down Angels to fight for them … The Angels are Angels of God – not Jesus – but Jesus could pray (Petition) his father for help. Just as anyone who is called 'Son of God' could do if need be.

Jesus had AUTHORITY over the fallen Angels – but All men of righteousness do, too.
That is how the disciples and Apostles removed (exorcised) bad spirits from people!

Of course, they ALL, including Jesus, PRAYED to God for help so nothing was attributed to them personally – give God the glory…!

[Istari]

Wow Mike,
What a lot you write – and you accuse me?(vous m'accusez)?

Anyway, just to let you know I read it all .. And you are right in this regard.

Sorry Gene, but I'm in the preExistent camp.

I think you are right about many things concerning jesus life while on earth and about Spirit Bodies of MANKIND, though.

[Istari]

If, as Mikeboll has been so vehement in the past, that God and Spirits are not EVERYWHERE then it would certainly be true then that one could 'Hide' from God.

I am pleased that Mikeboll has now started walking towards truth by at least saying what he said in the quote.

Just a little while longer and he will be convinced that God is EVERYWHERE ALL THE TIME.. as I wrote in another thread 'A man in a brightly lit room with his eyes closed is only fooling himself that he is in the dark'. It is only in his mind that he is in the dark because he chooses to think that just as salvation is ours if we should just open our minds to the Holy Spirit that is with us always – if we choose to allow it into our minds.

Again, it is like serious high tech X-ray and reads our minds and thoughts even when we don't accept it -'Theres no hiding place from the The Father of Creation' (Bob Marley!)

[Istari]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 13 2011,13:00)

Hi Marty, I agree with your post, except I think we have different understandings of God dwelling “IN” someone.  I don't think the Being of God could ever be within a human being. But I do agree that God CAN BE anywhere and everywhere He wants to be through Spirit OR in Person.  But He is not ALWAYS “everywhere all the time”, for He is said to dwell IN HEAVEN. peace, mike

Even as Mikeboll claims that he did not say he could hide from God while chasing round DEMANDING that people show him how God can only be in one place – is it to be noted with this hedge he has come up sith of 'God can be anywhere he wants to be and EVERYWHERE…' it matters not that it be said 'through his Spirit' – you cannot SEPARATE GOD AND HIS SPIRIT… else you say they are seperate entities.
The Spirit of God is his ACTIVE FORCE. it is not SEPARATE FROM HIM.
So, say God, say Holy Spirit.

How say you 'The hand of the bride was given to the groom' and think not that the hand of the bride was separated from the body for the giving?

If God can be EVERYWHERE THEN ISTARI IS RIGHT THAT OTHER SPIRITS ARE ALSO EVERYWHERE – For as God is SPIRIT so his Messengers are also Spirits – and Jesus is the image of God so Jesus is also EVERYWHERE.

[Istari]

Who is the ONE PERSON WHO VOTED FOR the first item …. in the poll?

[Istari]

WM,
Jesus is the image of God…

Is not MAN also the Image of God?

[Istari]

Yes, and I can guess who those 5 reports are from too.

It's strange though that no report was made to me about the reports.

If some one is reported then that person should be informed that they have been reported.

If an error is made and no one informs the error maker that they made an error he will make the error again and again and again and again…

It cannot then be thrust on that one to say 'Five errors you made one after the other therefore I'm punishing you.. ! Maybe if he had been told of his first error hecwoukd not have made the 4 others…

It would seem that piling up the error was deliberate so that it would make more impact later : hey you Been reported 5 times..

Also, it has been a consistent feature that when we report Mikeboll for abuse nothing is ever done… Even vehement abuse seems to have no impact… Being the moderator who receives complaints about his own behaviour doesn't seem to be a very good policing method…

Whose policing the police.
Whose moderating the moderator?

Yes, I see it now – those were not REAL REPORTS…

Mike is losing his battle and he is getting embarrassed – and Mikeboll WILL NOT BE EMBARRASSED.

The only thing Mike has left is 'Citizenship in heaven'…

Look how far he has gone to come down to this last strawman.

Apparently, SOMEONE REPORTED ME for saying that I was FINISHED IN THIS THREAD… can anyone believe that.

I said that 'SATAN Is TOO STRONG FOR ME…' … that, apparently was deemed as ABUSE…!!!!

Has anyone heard of the term 'VICTIMISATION'??

And there are such persons as MODERATORS in this forum?

[Istari]

Paul did not make any distinction between types of persons who were to be raised from the dead in Spiritual Bodies…

What IS A SPIRITUAL BODY…?

The SPIRIT – rests with God.
The Body – rests in the Grave.

Does the SPIRIT that rests with God have a Body?

The body …..that is raised from the dead …. has a SPIRIT ….. put back into it …..to make it a Living soul…

If … THE SPIRIT ….. resting with God …… has a Body… Which is A SPIRITUAL BODY… and is already in Heaven… Already a Citizen residing in Heaven…. Then… What is it …. That is RAISED AS A SPIRITUAL BODY …at the resurrection…

And, since all men die.. Even truly sinful ones .. Whose Spirits rests in heaven with God …. Then even TRULY sinful men have SPIRITS WITH SPIRITUAL BODIES WHOSE A
CITIZENSHIP is IN HEAVEN NOW…

I don't get it… What is the point of the bodily rising… If the SPIRITS OF THE DEAD ARE ALREADY IN SPIRITIUAL BODIES AND ARE ALREADY CITIZENS OF HEAVEN… yet Paul says their abode WILL BE IN HEAVEN… It appears that they are already in heaven then?

[Istari]

Quote (terraricca @ July 13 2011,15:20)

Quote (shimmer @ July 13 2011,22:12) Terrarica, Jesus said that with faith you can do anything and I do believe this.  I agree that it can also be used in the wrong way.  And I also agree, that changing your lifestyle has to go with healing. shimmer in live the rule is this what a men sows is what he will reap by sowing the spirit of truth in your own heart you will heal many things and reap God blessings Pierre

And what about in death… What does a man REAP when after his body is sown in death?

Are not even those destined for destruction RAISED (Reaped) FROM the dead?

And what bodies are they raised in?

And what of those raised to live on paradise earth – are they also in SPIRITUAL BODIES…?

Mike, you might wanna join in here!

[Istari]

Ah poor Terraricca, you learning from another here.

When someone posts what you can't refute just tell them they are wrong…

You know, it was really enjoyable writing what I wrote – very 'COMING TOGETHER' of thoughts – linked together – not a hop skip or jump, not a pop, hiss or slide… Just Smooth grooves … Hitting home – don't touch that dial!!

So, terra, you think that was good – neat.

Got any more questions?

Hey, instead of running away, why not present a critique of what I wrote – isn't that normal – to kinda 'Mark my papers' for me – present a critical appraisal and the likes… Go on – ya know ya wanna!! Be a devil – just this time…, eh!!

[Istari]

Mikeboll64 just sent me this:

Quote

Quote (,July 13 2011 @ 14:27) You have been warned by a staff member. Your warning level has not been incremented, however, this is a possibility for the future. You have been warned from the following post: https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin&#8230;.y303064 <!–QuoteBegin–> Quote <!–QuoteEBegin–>Mikeboll says he can hide from God because there are places where God is and where God is Not…<!–QuoteEnd–> <!–QuoteEEnd–> This is a blatant lie.  You have three choices, Istari: 1.  Show where I ever said I can hide from God 2.  Make a correction of your statement (with an optional apology) 3.  Receive a tile. The choice is yours, but one of those three things will happen by the time I log on tomorrow.

He says he never said he could hide from God!

Mike has consistently insisted that God is NOT OMNIPRESENT THEREFORE cannot be in more than one place at a time (Whatever 'One place is meant to mean in the Spirit world!). I guess this all part of Mikeboll trying say that God has a body therefore he can be 'here' but not also 'there' at the same time.
Both myself AND KERWIN presented irrefutable Scriptures showing God to be EVERYWHERE ALL AT THE SAME TIME… and I showed (Twice or more) where David says, 'Where can I go to hide from your presence…' why did I have to present it twice or more – AND also Kerwin, and yet MIKEBOLL still insists, is running round asking 'How can Gods Spirit be in SOME and not in others if Spirits are EVERYWHERE ALL THE TIME.. why do they need to COME and GO.!!!'?
To which I answered time and time again but Mikeboll just keeps demanding answers to the question that, unlike others, I answer in different ways but with the same context.

Here, Mikeboll wants an APOLOGY… eh? Apologise for telling truth – on ya bike, mate!

I suspect that he is after getting me a tile so he can have a clear platform for his disingenuous posts… Dream on brother – i may like my colours but four is enough…

Hey, didnt I say I was 'outa here'…
What did MICHAEL CORLEONE say, “Just when I think I'm out – they draw my straight back in…!” (Godfather – part 3)

And what might Jesus say: An apology they asked for….but none shall be given them'

Rock on, Mikeboll – rock on, brother!!
(I feel a song coming on…! Nah, resist, resist, resist…!)
I posted Scriptures showing how even though it says that

[Istari]

Maybe Shimmer is showing Mike what it's like when others agree with you – out of turn… Except that I take no credit for what Shimmer believes.

If she posts well – I say so – if not I say nothing!

[Istari]

Oh dear oh dear… Another Mikebollism…

'Lean not on thine own understanding'…

Irene is clearly wrong on resurrection… Shimmer made this one point concerning JWs as a pointed remark. And I have said the same.

It is not that we say that Irene is a JW – just that point. It is also said about the Sadducees who do not believe in the resurrection – but no one is calling Irene a Sadducee (if only in jibe at least!)

And further more – The thread topic is 'Do Spirits have bodies?' and seeing that there has not been a single shrek of evidence presented stating that SPIRITS HAVE BODIES – the case for the prosecution is FOUND TO BE FALSE…

No evidence has been presented stating that 'Spirits have bodies'(In heaven).

The attempt at some form of evidence is based on an extremely silly misinterpretation of a the term 'Spiritual Body' which even a minor level school child could advise the learned gentlemen is nothing to do with SPIRIT BODIES… in fact this is an elementary prosecution error.

In fact, it would help their case somewhat if they actually used their misappropriated term of SPIRIT BODY instead as it would at least give a clearer indication of their error – to themselves.
Instead they continue to use the term SPIRITUAL BODY – meaning SPIRIT BODY with no change this making themselves a laughing stick when they read this through again on page 777.

M'lud it seems that RIGHTEOUS MINDS are confused with Riotous Minds…
Riotous minds against common sense and Scriptural Truth.

The foundations of sinfulness do indeed go deep – some here amongs these learned colleagues are trying to shake the very foundation of their misapprehensions below the levels known for sinfulness.

Scriptures does indeed say to leave such ones to their fate lest one sins attempting to stop them sinning… Ever the truth, eh!!

[Istari]

Just see Mikeboll's bravery – you know when a strong man walks away from a bully.. What happens: the bully thinks he's 'WON' and starts throwing verbals at the strong back of the man…

Yeah, yeah, Mike… Tears are rolling down your inner cheeks even now.

You say you learnt from Terraricca – what? How to fling empty nonsense – yes Mikeboll. But don't stop there – name all the others you learnt from:
WORSHIPPINGJESUS
KANGAROO JACK
SIMPLYFORGIVEN
STUART
DAVIDBFUN
JUSTASKIN
KARMARIE
SHIMMER
IS 1:18
DAVID
T8
!!

Yes, Mike, you learnt your ways and many ideas from EVERY ONE OF US because your nature is as a Copycat…

[Istari]

Terraricca,
Once again I have no idea what you just said.

If I did I would answer you.

Perhaps someone else could clarify it for me?

To TRY to answer:

First up, Terraricca, the THREAD TOPIC is 'DO SPIRITS (Angel, God, the Holy Spirit) have Bodies (In Heaven) (To clarify – this was known from the start so don't say I'm adding it in now – that was ALWAYS the understanding. I see a few posts back that MIKEBOLL is claiming that it is Istari and Shimmer who have ADULTERATED the thread because He, Mikeboll, has always been trying to speak of Spirits … Yet, it was Mikeboll who brought the 1 Corin 25 to the thread as his ONLY attempt at proof… Oh boy!)

There is nothing said in 1 Corinthians 15 that pertains to SPIRIT creatures. The term used is SPIRITUAL BODY… Spiritual – is not SPIRIT… it certainly can mean 'Of the Spirit' but please show a sentence USING IT.

I have 'begged' Mikeboll and anyone to give such a verse – and to date not one person has – I think not one person CAN…

Ok, I have also 'begged' Mikeboll and anyone to give a definition of SPIRIT so we all understand what we are talking about – no one has answered …why?

It seems noone wants unity of thought – just division. Or they KNOW THEY ARE WRONG SO THEY KEEP QUIET hoping the moment will pass – like Adam and Eve trying to 'hide' from God – tuh – as if!!!

Terraricca,
In the beginning… God created man from the dust of the earth…and blew the breathe of life into his nostril…and the MAN became a living SOUL.
So, there is a BODY…There is SPIRIT (The breathe) …and there is a Soul…

It is said 'The Souls of the dead …' does this mean body? Perhaps – or perhaps not…
For it is also said 'Let not your Soul be troubled…' does this mean SPIRIT – I do not know…

No one has ever been able to define EXACTLY what a SOUL is – and I don't pretend to know either… As many definitions that you read there are as many different opinions.

So we cannot discuss 'Body' and 'Soul' for that is futile.

We can discuss BODY and SPIRIT though.

Mankind is A MATERIAL ENTITY IN A PHYSICAL WORLD.
Man is made a BODY consisting of 'Dust of the earth' ( this means Chemical elements like CARBON, Nitrogen, Oxygen, Hydrogen, other…) and an Invisible and IMMATERIAL ENTITY called SPIRIT that animates the body, empowers it – in a similar way that a Car is a body AS a vehicle and the driver IN IT is the INTELLIGENCE behind the animation of the vehicle.
That is, the vehicle is as good as DEAD without a driver.
The driver sustains the vehicle. Fills it with fuel, washes it, waters it, cleans it, replenishes lost oils . Replaces worn parts… Directs the motion and navigation. Let's the vehicle rest or exerts in speed.

This is like the body…

The Spirit is the DRIVING FORCE… the intelligence in the body.

Gene is right concerning the human, and animal, bird, fish, insect, even plant – every LIVING THING has a SPIRIT in it of greater or lesser degree… Every living thing…
There are also NON INTELLIGENT SPIRITS like WIND, Waves and Fire.
Why? Because all these things in the Physical world are FORCES, POWERS, ENERGY FILLED BODIES…
The non intelligent forces are like AUTOMATONS. they do ONLY WHAT THEY HAVE BEEN PROGRAMMED TO DO… with no sense of regard – so they have counteractive partners: Water and fire, Wind and Fixed objects, waves and shores. Each acts counter to each other to greater or lesser degrees according to God's requirement to shape the world.
These forces are DANGEROUS TO MAN but a man with FAITH, the KEY, can subdue even the fiercest force, because we, Human beings, have SPIRITS that are not like the animals, birds, fish and insects.
We have a SPIRIT that directly knows God and can accommodate the POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT which is an OMNIPOTENT power and intelligence.

Now, Terraricca, this thread is not about HUMAN SPIRITS, but ANGEL SPIRITS…

Angel spirits are not the same as HUMAN SPIRITS.

Human Spirits cannot function without a Body (as Gene says).
Unless the body of a human is sustained by a SPIRITUAL FORCE the body cannot remain living…
In Scriptures there are events portrayed where someone has been transported IN SPIRIT to some place heavenly (Glorious) – In actual fact, the Spirit never LEAVES the Body, but reaches outside of the body by the power of another greater Spirit (an Angel of immense strength – Power – not your every day Angel!)
If one were to watch someone in that state they would appear to be either in a stupor, lying prone but still breathing irratically… Or acting as though mad…speaking gibberish (an unknown language!)

This is the state of the human Spirit in the human body…
Now sin, sin leads to corruption of the body, corruption leads to decay of the body, and decay leads to death of the body… The Spirit cannot die so at death of the body, the Spirit returns to God… The Power, animator, intelligence, returns to God.

Mikeboll says he can hide from God because there are places where God is and where God is Not…
Well, the light is on in my room, but if I shut my eyes it is dark… Have I hidden from the light? No, the light is still all around me (… Yeah yeah… No earthly analogy is going to fully mirror the heavenly reality !! Just go with it!!!)
I can CHOOSE to close my eyes but it doesn't mean that the light is not there…
Same then of God and his Spirit. If we CHOOSE not to accept Him, then it is our loss – it does not mean He is not there – as soon as we decide to metaphorically open our SPIRITUAL EYES HE is there…he was never AWAY from us…

So, how about the SPIRITS OF HEAVEN.

As mentioned, Spirits are FORCES, INTELLIGENT FORCES. a Force is not a body – it is ENERGY – and Energy is EVERYWHERE.. EVERYWHERE…

EVERYTHING that is done, everything that occurs , is done by a Force, a SPIRIT.

Scriptures say, 'The world was created by the word of God'.
This means his FORCE, His power, his Energy…The world is the WORK of his hands…
What is WORK: Work is ACTIVE ENERGY (POWER) ACTING OVER TIME.

God Almighty is the SOURCE OF ALL ENERGY… the description of God being in unapproachable light is a good point as light is a VISIBLE EMINATION of power and energy.

So unapproachable gives the feeling that there is an unassailable amount of energy available.
And so it is – endless – because, unlike the physical world, emery is not 'Lost' – as the great scientists have discovered – Energy only changes from ONE FORM TO ANOTHER – energy is TRANSFORMABLE.

E=mc^2.

Everything in the physical world is made of ENERGY – Compressed Energy – where did so much energy come from – from an UNDEPLETABLE SOURCE.

God further created 'Helpers' to do work – the Spirits, some as Angels… Intelligent FORCES OF ENERGY.
In this INVISIBLE world of UNLIMITED ENERGY where Intelligent forces of energy exist – the SPIRIT world- there are no BODIES as in the physical world.

The Spirit world is not physical – there are no 'here' 'there' or 'anywhere'.
In the physical world things are BOUND to one place in BODY MASSES. fixed masses and moving masses. Fluid masses and solid masses. solid masses and gaseous masses: all such masses are called BODIES IF THEY act as one accord – Human bodies, Planetary bodies, liquid bodies (in a container – ocean… Lake, Pond, pool … But not RUNNING WATER…similarly AIR Is not called a BODY in general unless it is gathered together – WIND, Tornado, Storm…these are bodies of air.
Material matter is God's creation to form the physical universe. To create a Spirit being is EASY for God IS A SPIRIT himself.
To create a physically thing takes HUGE AMOUNTS OF ENERGY ( I wish I didnt have to keep writing th
is…!) where can such huge amounts of energy come from? And who controls it all – it certainly was no accident nor the beauty of it all just indiscriminately evolved. This is ORDER at it's finest…

Terraricca, HEAVEN is not ABOVE US. Heaven is not BELOW US… neither to the left nor to the right… Heaven is ALL AROUND US and in us.

God is all around us.

We don't go UP INTO HEAVEN. this is just figurative speech.
If you could just open your mind to DIMENSIONS you would see that there is no UP DOWN IN OUT LEFT RIGHT or whatever … That going from one 'Place' to 'another' place IS ONLY RELEVANT in the physical world…

Imagine endless source of BANDWIDTH on your Internet connection…
Where could you not be on earth or in the whole universe and yet … Never leave your chair…
I wrote this as Douglas Adams did in HHGttG where the man went on holiday to another planet, to a beach on another planet while still IN HIS OFFICE …
God will allow us to VISIT OTHER WORLD IN OUR SPIRIT while our bodies remain on earth.

Jesus went to heaven but his body was on earth – if he comes to earth he will be in a physical body.
When he is in Heaven he will be in Spirit Only…

There will be a multitude of people who occupy Paradise Earth.
And Jesus will be there with them along with the ELECT.
Jesus and the elect will also dwell in heaven in their spirit…
How? Because now their bodies are IMMORTAL. they can leave their bodies and it does not die… This is the SPIRITUAL BODY, the IMMORTAL BODY, not subject to corruption nor death…

See here… The SPIRITS OF HEAVEN ARE NOT SUBJECT TO DEATH DECAY CORRUPTION, etc. Why not make the RESTING SPIRITS OF THE ELECT directly into LIVEABLE SPIRITS IF THERE ABODE IS ONLY FOR HEAVEN – why all the messy stuff with resurrection ( as Mike says, just to toss it off?)
But of the mortal flesh and blood bodies were to remain then yes – they are resurrected and made Immortal.
The text is singular : the body dies .. Is buried .. Is raised again in a glorified state – it was previously MORTAL – it is now IMMORTAL. it was previously subject to corruption – it no longer is…. It was previous in a state of Sin leading to corruption leading to decay leading to death – it nolonger is… Where is SPIRIT mentioned at all…

Ok, much more to say from the little I have said…

[Author]

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