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[Histruths]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 12 2007,19:47)

Your safety is in abiding in the Word of God. The Spirit does not teach of His own initiative but takes us back to the teachings of Jesus. Since trinity was not found in his mouth it is not of the Spirit of God.

Hi NH

“Your safety is in abiding in the Word of God.“

Not sure what you mean by this. If you mean just reading His word then I would disagree, many read His word and are no closer to heaven or understanding then before they started. If you mean fellowship with the Lord in Spirit then I would agree, when you are in the Spirit you cannot sin, you don't even think about it, all you think about all day long is His Word, and talk to each other, that's the safest place to be, like Martha.

“The Spirit does not teach of His own initiative but takes us back to the teachings of Jesus.“

Again not sure what you mean, but I think I agree with ya, if you mean when the Spirit talks to us it will line up with His word.

“Since trinity was not found in his mouth it is not of the Spirit of God.“

I gotcha here, and agree.

[Histruths]

t8 and seekingtruth

t8

Sure I'll read those… thanks, though I am completely convinced there is only one God, the Father, and no one beside Him.

I just happened to fall onto this site, I was looking for something, clicked on this site and I couldn't believe it “THERE'S OTHERS LIKE ME, I'M NOT ALONE!!!”, that was very encouraging “I'm not completely nuts!”.

seekingtruth

So you're still going to the same chuch then?

Yes I know what you're talking about when you say you learn from your own writings. I'm much better at recognizing God's voice now, before everyone would tell me Satan can come as an angel of light, while this is true, they meant to cast doubt. Telling me that these dreams, visions or revelations by the power of the Spirit is Satan's work, or that they mean nothing. I just can't believe Satan can come upon you with such amazing power (Spirit), I can't think of any example in the word were Satan could do anything like this, but I do see God's power come on people in the old and the new testament. But even that, I still check with the word, because God could be leading ya in a direction, but it's not quit connecting with ya yet, because God has not given you the understanding yet, He's waiting for the right time.

[Histruths]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 11 2007,05:59)

What do you make of those who say you must worship JESUS instead of the Father or AS the Father?

Good question.

Right off the bat I'd have to say I love them… hehe… I worshiped three god's myself, and very aware of the confusion it creates, and if ya can't find the truth how can ya be set free. Maybe if I tell you about my experience, I think you'll get a good idea of what I think of it. Don't worry I'll cut alot of corners to try and keep it as short as I possibly can. But if you don't wish to read though all this then I'll just say ” Hate the doctrine love the people”. But the leaders, pastors or what have you I hold more responsible.

When I first turned to the Lord His Spirit was upon me. After three months someone said I had to go to church, I did, got indoctrinated, I died. Returned to the Lord went to another church, died. I did this again, and again, and again. What I was taught was not the same thing as I read, but I thought these are the wise men what do I know. I was pretty sure God wanted to save me and was going to save me, because He came to me and called me, and it was how He called me, but I was very confused. Again He called me and I walked with Him in the Spirit for about a year and a half, I did not go to church during this time, but His Spirit was upon me very strongly this time. During this time God was starting to show me things that were vary different then what I was taught. I won't get into why and how I went back to church again, but I did, and I died. While going to church I started to doubt what God had showed me, and started to think it was all in my head. Anyways tried different denominations, wondering what's wrong with me, maybe I'm cursed and God does not want me, but by the grace of God I held on to what He showed me from the start. I emailed a very tame version of what I was finding in the word (because I knew he believed in the trinity) to my… I don't know what you would call him, my teacher I guess (I'll put it at the end of the post if you wish to read it), to see what he had to say about what I believe God was teaching me in His word, never heard from him again. For me to believe in something other than the trinity was going against all of Christianity as I knew it, the only other teaching I heard of was Jesus was an angel. It is tuff to think you are alone and to believe that there is no trinity when everyone demands that you do, on top of all the other doctrines they teach.

I am in no way wise when it comes to languages, I even have a hard time with my own English language (apparently a learning disability). It basically came down to this… I said this to Him after many years of frustration ” Lord there is no way I am going to be able to understand your word when theologians can't even agree on what many of the passages mean, it's always “well this word means this in the Greek, and that doesn't mean that…”, who I'm I suppose to believe?. How am I suppose to know what you mean unless you tell me yourself. I tried to understand Greek but I can barely grasp my own language, What chance does a person like me have, I thought your word was for everyone. If you don't tell me your word, then what's left for me, forever cursed. I could leave but what would I do, there would be nothing left for me but a bitter wait of judgment. So if you want me, your going to have to teach me yourself, because I have no idea, I can't figure it out, I give up on trying to understand your word, you are going to have to teach me if you want me.

I was fortunate enough God heard my prayer. The next day I happened to read this on the Internet, this is what He said to me…

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

I would have to say this gave me a lot of encouragement. I saw this passage in a whole different light. For one thing He was talking about the *religious* leaders (I always assumed He was talking about atheists), and each taught their own doctrine. They killed Him because they wanted to rule over the people, but in the end God judged them and took it away by destroying that nation. I believe history is repeating itself. Many years ago while I was reading His word He showed me this about our spiritual leaders today, but I was not ready to receive it then, I mean at first when God revealed it to me I received it, but after, thought maybe it was just my pride and just in my head, how could all our spiritual leaders be wrong or false? And I wasn't wise enough to debate them. Makes ya think of certain scripture when the Jews wondered where did Jesus and Peter (I believe it was) get their learning, not saying I'm wise… yet, just saying… just saying I believe God is calling me out of that doctrine.

So as you can see I take it very seriously. Because Gods people parish for lack of knowledge, and the letter kills but the Spirit of truth gives life. For my own reasons I see false doctrine as very harmful, so harmful it can destroy you. The Apostles spent so much of their time writing letters to worn us of this coming danger after their gone. And that God would send tribulation to test those on earth. He would send something so deceiving that it would fool even the elect if that were possible.

Somehow I believe (I haven't put much study into this yet, so I have no idea how accurate this could be) that this is the great test that is coming upon the earth, this mother of harlots doctrine.

Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler pays attention to lies, All his servants become wicked.

Isaiah 9:16 15 The elder and honorable, he is the head; The prophet who teaches lies, he is the tail. For the leaders of this people cause them to err; and they that are led of them are destroyed.

Lamentations 2
11 My eyes fail from weeping,
I am in torment within,
my heart is poured out on the ground
because my people are destroyed,
because children and infants faint
in the streets of the city.
12 They say to their mothers,
“Where is bread and wine?”
as they faint like wounded men
in the streets of the city,
as their lives ebb away
in their mothers' arms.

Ezra 5:12 But because our fathers provoked the God of heaven to wrath, He gave them into the hand of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, the Chaldean, who destroyed this temple and carried the people away to Babylon.

John 4:23 But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. 24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

Bread is not the word of God, the truth in Gods word is the real food, without it you will perish. The very first thing Jesus said when asked what was the greatest commandment Mark 12:29 Jesus answered him, “The first of all the commandments is: “Hear, O Israel, the LORD our God, the LORD is one…”

Matt 22:45 makes it clear Jesus is special and unique and not just a man. 43 “How then does David in the Spirit call Him ‘Lord,’ saying: 44 ” The LORD said to my Lord,…” 45 If David then calls Him ‘Lord,’ how is He his Son?” This is saying to me He did not come from man.

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Hi ——, (Crossed out his name, not sure of the rules on that.)

Good to hear from you, it's been some time now, I guess you really have been busy, getting a little worried about that. We are back from Winnipeg now, and was sad when my son said he misses grandpa, but everything is back to normal.

Yes, I have started my own study on the deity of Jesus Christ, not finished the study yet, I was surprised and I have discovered, so it looks like, it will be an on going study, or longer then I first had thought. I have always taken the trinity as fact, or that it always existed even before the creation of the world, but now from my study so far I'm beginning to wonder.

Before I was taught the trinity I thought the Holy Spirit was another way of God revealing Himself. Now after believing in the trinity I am beginning to wonder, is the Holy Spirit; God the Holy Spirit, or God the Father, or the seven spirits of God? But this is another study.

First it is interesting all the scriptures one can find like 1 Thessalonians 1:1 below, but not one that says “God the Son”.

1 Thessalonians 1:1:
King James Version (KJV)
Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

I'm studying and trying to understand, as best I can, who Jesus is.

From my study so far it would seem Jesus did not exist as Jesus before His birth. It would seem Jesus existed as part of God the Father (the one and only true God), just as my son was part of me before he was born. In John it says “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”, why would John use “word” instead of “Jesus”? We know John is referring to Jesus when he says “word”.

So I'm thinking along these lines. We came from the Earth, God created the Earth, then He created man from the dust of the Earth, but Jesus came straight from God, making Jesus a God, in other words if God was to have a son the son would naturally be a God, after His Father, but the son is not greater then the Father, the Father is always greater then the son even though they may be equal in every other way.

Another thing to notice from this verse in John, it says “WAS the word”; “WAS with God”; “WAS God”. This is saying to me Jesus came from the Father and is the son of God the Father.

By the power of the Holy Spirit Mary conceived, God's power is simply He speaks and it is, “by His word”. And His word became flesh, I think when John said the word became flesh that's exactly what he meant. So when it says all things were created by Jesus, they were, just like Levi paid tithes to Melchizedek through Abraham, for Levi was in his loins, and as Paul says in Rom 5 “through one man’s offense judgment came to all men”, so too Jesus created all things because He was in the bosom of God, or loins so to speak. God created everything by His word, He spoke it into existence, Jesus is the word, and the word of God became flesh-You see what I'm getting at?

It's possible we have an example from creation. God created man first, then made woman from man, then man and woman had a son, so we have man (God the Father) in the beginning, then woman (Holy Spirit/or possibly seven Spirits of God) from man (God the Father), then son (Son) from man and woman. It would seem to me that he seven Spirits of God are the Holy Spirit, it could be that the seven Spirits of God came from and were a part of God, making the seven Spirits an expression of God to the heavenly hosts, but more study.

Ephesians 1:17
King James Version (KJV)
That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

1 Corinthians 8:6
New King James Version (NKJV)
yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.

But I suppose this all could be explained as a trinity, but my question would be why force three when there is only need for one God of all.

If there is anything to prove this wrong I would love to hear it. I would not want to believe a lie.

This following passage would be my problem text, well the only one I have come across so far. But I see how it can fit in with what I am putting forth here, but I'm not sure if that would be twisting the text.

Amplified Bible (AMP)
Philippians 2:5-11
5Let this same attitude and purpose and [humble] mind be in you which was in Christ Jesus: [Let Him be your example in humility:]
6Who, although being essentially one with God and in the form of God [possessing the fullness of the attributes which make God God], did not think this equality with God was a thing to be eagerly grasped or retained, 7But stripped Himself [of all privileges and rightful dignity], so as to assume the guise of a servant (slave), in that He became like men and was born a human being.
8And after He had appeared in human form, He abased and humbled Himself [still further] and carried His obedience to the extreme of death, even the death of the cross!
9Therefore [because He stooped so low] God has highly exalted Him and has freely bestowed on Him the name that is above every name,
10That in (at) the name of Jesus every knee should (must) bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11And every tongue [frankly and openly] confess and acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Another interesting passage:
Isaiah 9:6
New King James Version (NKJV)
6 For unto us a Child is born,
Unto us a Son is given;
And the government will be upon His shoulder.
And His name will be called
Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Turned out to be a long letter, I was trying to keep it short, but I don't think it was possible. Man! sure wish I knew Greek, makes ya think, how does God expect a simple person like me to be able to understand and come to the right conclusion without knowing Greek? And yet it's mostly the simple He chooses. Which Greek theologian am I to trust? Maybe He does not expect us to know Greek. Better end it here or I'll go on forever.

END

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[Man! You know what, looking back and reading this letter is really something for me, it's like a prophecy to me, because I didn't fully understand what I was learning or writing at the time, and even started to doubt it.]

[Histruths]

New here, first post and like to say hi to everyone.

I don't know if this has bin covered, I got up to page nine which took me about 4 days… did the math and discover that it would take me well over a year and a half (including all the posts within that time) before I got to hit the reply button of my first post. So I made a calculated decision, decided to bypass all that, I think it was a good choice. I had a slight problem understanding the worship of the Son of God, when the Word says we must worship one God only, (that is if the Father is the only high God, and I believe He is). But then I read a passage in Gen. 41. The Apostles got their understanding of the relationship of the Son to the Father from the old testament, for the Lord explained all the scriptures to them.

Joseph because of jealousy was hated by his own brothers, sold as a slave, falsely accused, as though he was dead, preached in prison, one man set free the other put to death, not deserving of prison, no one as discerning or wise. Then it says in Gen 41:40-45

40 You shall be over my house, and all my people shall be ruled according to your word; only in regard to the throne will I be greater than you.” 41 And Pharaoh said to Joseph, “See, I have set you over all the land of Egypt.” 42 Then Pharaoh took his signet ring off his hand and put it on Joseph’s hand; and he clothed him in garments of fine linen and put a gold chain around his neck. 43 And he had him ride in the second chariot which he had; and they cried out before him, “Bow the knee!” So he set him over all the land of Egypt. 44 Pharaoh also said to Joseph, “I am Pharaoh, and without your consent no man may lift his hand or foot in all the land of Egypt.” 45 And Pharaoh called Joseph’s name Zaphnath-Paaneah. And he gave him as a wife Asenath, the daughter of Poti-Pherah priest of On.

God hide it within His word and it seems the wolves missed it. Everything but His throne.

Then He reminded me of…

Rev 3:9 Indeed I will make those of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews and are not, but lie—indeed I will make them come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you. 10 Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.

That settled it for me! If He is going to make some bow down before us, then surely I can bow down before the Son of God.

One more thing, on this passage…

Gen 45:8 So now it was not you who sent me here, but God; and He has made me a father to Pharaoh, and lord of all his house, and a ruler throughout all the land of Egypt.

Joseph will be like a father to all the people second to Pharaoh.

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a Child is born, …And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

But Jesus will be like an everlasting father. If I am to honour and respect my earthly kings, how much more should I honour and respect my heavenly king the Son of God, who is second to the Father only, everything was put under Him by the Father.

1 Corinthians 15:27 For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.

1 Corinthians 15:28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

Hebrews 2:7-9
7You made him a little lower than the angels; you crowned him with glory and honor 8and put everything under his feet?In putting everything under him, God left nothing that is not subject to him. Yet at present we do not see everything subject to him. 9But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

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