Search Members

[GJG]

JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD!
JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD!
JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD! umm, I already know that.

sheesh, not even global shot me down like that!

hhhhmmmmm maybe binitarians are worse?

Your out of line dude, way out of line!

You claim this is a site to put across ones views, but now you say I must be exorcised…..oops, now that was an unfair accusation, sorry:)

I’ll leave you to your own ways dude!

Just take it easy on others that don’t hold to your view dude:(

CYa, like never!

[GJG]

Quote

Quote: from t8 on 9:41 am on Sep. 13, 2003 To GJG, You are entitled to believe what you want to believe and as I am sure that you are aware; I believe that Oneness and Trinity doctrines to be the teachings of men that lead men astray from the simple and expressed truth in the scriptures. First of all, your belief denies that Jesus has a life of his own. You say that God clothed himself in flesh and then that so called union was named Jesus and that became the name of God. However, this belief  denies the truth that the Son has a soul/mind of his own, that Jesus has his own will and that he is a unique person seperate to God, but unified in spirit and purpose. Matthew 26:38 <font color=red>Then he said to them, "<b>My soul</b> is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death. Stay here and keep watch with me."</font> John 12:27 <font color=red>Now is <b>my soul</b> troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour.</font> Acts 2:31 <font color=red>He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that <b>his soul</b> was not left in ####, neither his flesh did see corruption.</font> Matthew 26:42 <font color=red>He went away a second time and prayed, "My Father, if it is not possible for this cup to be taken away unless I drink it, may <b>your will be done</b>." </font> In addition to the fact that you do not believe that Jesus is a unique person, you also deny in that belief, that God had/has a son, a seperate but similar person to himself who has his nature. I can only conclude that you are decieved and that you decieve. You do not hold to the words of Christ in that you choose not to believe who Jesus says he is. Instead you prefer to follow what certain men say and you have blocked the way for yourself to become a true disciple of Christ. How can you claim to be a true follower of Christ, when you do not even believe that Christ exists as his own person. Instead you believe that he is God himself, in human flesh. In this you demonstrate that you do not know Christ. Now we know that no one can come to the Father but through the Son and if coupled with your belief, you must conclude that we come to the Father by the flesh that he supposedly inhabited.  Otherwise you would say that no one comes to the Father except through the Father. Both ways of looking at it are not only error but they are plainly stupid. Why can’t you accept what Jesus and his disciples said, that Jesus Christ of Nazareth is the Son of God. This is the true faith and it is really simple, even a child can understand it. But no, you would prefer to follow the complicated philosophies of men and in doing so, you prove yourself to be opposed to the truth and to Jesus himself. I pray that you will repent and truly know him who loves us and saved us from our sin. 1 John 5:13 <font color=red>I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. </font> Matthew 7:22-23 <font color=red>22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, <b>’I never knew you</b>. Away from me, you evildoers!’</font> John 8:24 <font color=red>I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be,[1] you will indeed die in your sins." </font> John 10:36-38 <font color=red>what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? 37 Do not believe me unless I do what my Father does. 38 But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father."</font>

Steady on almighty one! (only God knows the hearts of all men):(

I never once said that I do not believe that Jesus is the son of God!

But then, like trinitarians, you make false accusations!

[GJG]

Quote

Quote: from t8 on 7:50 pm on Sep. 9, 2003 To GJG, Do you believe that Jesus Christ is the Word of God and not God himself, or do you still hold to the Oneness Doctrine?

I suppose for me the "oneness" of God taking on the "name" of a created vessel while maintaining all the Godly attributes, is the only reasoning I see as being closest to harmonizing with the Bible as a whole.

[GJG]

Quote

Quote: from Kel on 12:01 pm on Sep. 8, 2003 A soul is "who" we are and flesh is "what" we are.  The spirit in us is not us but the life and power of God which keeps this flesh alive. <a href="http://www.angelfire.com/space/thegospeltruth/Trinity/Verses/Jn1_1.html&#034; target="new1">http://www.angelfire.com/space/thegospeltruth/Trinity/Verses/Jn1_1.html </a>

Welcome dude:)

Thx for the short and simple answer.

Now I see what t8 was saying.

thx again guys.

[GJG]

so is my spirit (not The Spirit of God)) my soul aswell, are they one and the same thing?

[GJG]

Quote

Quote: from t8 on 9:55 pm on Sep. 1, 2003 Quote Quote: from GJG on 10:11 pm on Aug. 30, 2003 To t8, Due to the Divine conception of the man-Christ, do you think it is possible that the ‘true-self’ of this unique man, is the ‘greater Spirit’ within Him? Also, due to the same reasoning, do you think it is possible that any ‘Divine Attributes’ of this unique man, are refering to that very same Spirit? So that, the "title of God" and "Son of God title" are completely in harmony with each other. No. The flesh is the human nature. The Spirit is God’s nature or gives God’s nature and he (Jesus) chooses which one to obey. He chose the Spirit within HIM. Jesus is a unique person. "The Son". We are unique people. "A Son or sons". We are not the Spirit within, just as we are not the flesh. We are the soul. Jesus is the LOGOS.

Dude! What’s the difference between "spirit" and "soul"?

I sorta thought they were the same thing:(

lookin 4ward 2 ur reply:)

[GJG]

To t8,

Due to the Divine conception of the man-Christ, do you think it is possible that the ‘true-self’ of this unique man, is the ‘greater Spirit’ within Him?

Also, due to the same reasoning, do you think it is possible that any ‘Divine Attributes’ of this unique man, are refering to that very same Spirit?

So that, the "title of God" and "Son of God title" are completely in harmony with each other.

[GJG]

To Global,

You mention "three seperate persons that speak to each other".

Where does the Holy Ghost speak to the Spirit of God or the Spirit of Christ?

Also, isn’t a person made of flesh and blood?

I ask this because I feel it is important for readers to always be aware of this most vital fact: the HOLY GHOST is the very same Spirit that is the ONE SPIRIT GOD.  ONE AND THE SAME SPIRIT!

Refering to SPIRIT as flesh and blood is confusing.

The only example of a "person" being mentioned, regarding the Godhead, is Jesus-Christ.

This same "person" is no longer an ordinary "person".  Rather He is now at His rightful place of authority: Heaven.

I agree with you when you state the obvious fact that Jesus-Christ is indeed called God.  However, you do not show any real clear evidence of how there is any type of "seperation" within the Godhead.  The very same Godhead that is undoubtedly said to be the "ONE SPIRIT".

Please explain your interpretation of how God remains the unchanging ONE SPIRIT form OT to NT.

(Edited by GJG at 10:01 pm on Aug. 30, 2003)

[GJG]

To Global.

The Bible shows us that the Holy Ghost is the very same Spirit that is God.  The Holy Ghost being the desrciption of the way in which the invisible Spirit operates in the lives of believers.  THE VERY SAME SUBSTANCE!  ONE SPIRIT! ONE GOD!    There is no seperation whatsoever!

Do you agree?

Also, the body of Christ cannot have been  flesh and blood when He was taken up into heaven.  Christ Himself explains this point quite clearly:              

1 Cor 15:50-53
50 I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed- 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.
NIV

WE SHALL BE CHANGED!

This point is again confirmed when Jesus-Christ is in the form of an intensly bright light when He manifested this new form to Saul (Paul) on the way to Damascus.  

Flesh and blood cannot enter heaven and flesh and blood does not resemble light.

(Edited by GJG at 9:11 pm on Aug. 30, 2003)

(Edited by GJG at 9:29 pm on Aug. 30, 2003)

[GJG]

You are both correct to a certain extent:

There is much Biblical evidence that teaches Jesus as being one and the same Spirit that is God: Dual-nature of the man-Christ.

There is also just as much Biblical evidence that teaches Jesus as being the Son of the Spirit that is God: Divine conception of a pure vessel.

The way in which you both put across the two differing reasonings, seems to be getting your aims further and further from the target.

May I suggest you both search out the obvious common ground: JESUS!

You both earlier on, agreed on what is the true "self" of a person.  Go back to that particular common ground, regarding the man-Jesus, and then nut it out from there:)

Is that an appropriate suggestion?

[GJG]

To the Globmeister:)

You asked:

But do you believe Jesus existed before he became a man? and do you believe Jesus was God, both before and after becoming a man?

I answer:

The substance within this unique person (Jesus) is the very same substance that is the one eternal Spirit; God.  

Jesus did pre-exist only within the mind and plan of God (logos).  

The ‘name’ Jesus came into actual being only when the ‘perfect vessel’ was made of a woman, so that the ‘God within’ became a Father to that which He conceived, hence:"God with us".  

As you rightly put it; the flesh is not the true ‘self’ of a man, but rather the spirit within.  Thus, this many-titled Spirit (God), that was within a truly pure vessel, took unto Himself this "Personal Name": Jesus.

This vessel of God has now been glorified into heaven in a totally different form.  The same form that manifested Himself to Saul (Paul), on the way to Damascus, as a supernaturally bright and intense light.  The past vessel is no more, until the time He desires to come back.

Therefore, there is a truth to the fact that Jesus was and is the Immutable Eternal Spirit: God.

Bring it on Globalizer:) lookin 4ward 2 ur thorts.

[GJG]

Quote

Quote: from global on 12:22 pm on Aug. 27, 2003 Quote Quote: from GJG on 5:35 am on Aug. 25, 2003 To the Globalizer:) Quick qestion: Who sent the Comforter, the Father, Son or Holy Ghost? Is this a trick question? You said previously – "Interestingly enough, in this chapter Jesus says that the Father will send the Comforter, yet in the following two chapters Jesus tells them that He Himself will send the Comforter.  This again lines up with the scripture: “I and my Father are one” Yes it is interesting that at times certain actions are attributed to more than one person of the Trinity indistinctly, i.e the example you gave above about who sends the Comforter. I posted previously how the actions of Justification and Sanctification were in some passages attributed to Jesus and in others to the Holy Spirit. In some passages it says the Father raises Jesus to life after the crucifixion, in others it says Jesus raises himself. We also see that both the Father and Jesus share the divine titles. And yet they are obviously all spoken of as being seperate persons, this is the mystery of the Trinity, three persons, one substance, all the one God. You said – "I also beleive this, but only in that the ‘Divinity of God’ or ‘Spirit of God’, dwelt within Jesus’ mortal flesh while on earth: "Divinity clothed in humanity". " But do you believe Jesus existed before he became a man? and do you believe Jesus was God, both before and after becoming a man? Be Well.

hehe…:)

I’ll try not to be so obvious next time.

Yes indeed, the similarities are quite evident.

Try this on for size Global:

Could it possibly be, due to the above mentioned points, that the Holy Ghost (Spirit of God), the Spirit of Christ,  and the eternal omnipresent Spirit God; BE ONE AND THE SAME SPIRIT?  THE ONE ETERNAL SPIRIT THAT IS GOD.

[GJG]

Quote

Quote: from t8 on 7:36 am on Aug. 23, 2003 GJG, God’s name is not Jesus, it is YHWH. Jesus is not the flesh part of a union of God in flesh. Jesus is a unique person who partook of the flesh and who partakes of the divine nature too. Jesus is the Son of God, the Messiah, the firstborn of all creation, the Head of the Church, the ruler of God’s creation and the Image of God. He is not God himself. He is the Mediator between God and man, which makes him the only way to God.

Point taken:)

I think I may not be explaining my reasoning clear enough maybe.  

Jesus is indeed unique, as He was not born into sin, due to His Divine conception.

I am interested in your thoughts regarding "flesh is not who we are, rather the spirit within us" (something along those lines).  Also the "maybe we are simply God’s thoughts", after all, is that not what creation is; God’s thoughts spoken into existence?  I agree with this reasoning 100%, as there seems to be evidence along this line of thought within various scripture.

It is this common ground that may help me to explain my reasoning a bit better.

Sin is simply our true ‘self’ in a state of disobedience, towards the one who ‘thought’ us into being, thus; separation from the one who cannot fellowship with sin.  I think you mentioned that our flesh simply contains our true self.  Yes, flesh is nothing more than stuff from the ground; also, it is this ‘stuff’ that makes us into an actual ‘person’.  Therefore, emotions are simply physical responses within this ‘stuff’ resulting from how we are thinking, depending on what state our true ‘self’ is in: happy, sad, angry…etc.

Spirit-filled believers however, have this sinful ‘self’ striving to come under subjection to the Spirit that created it, within the created ‘stuff’; our flesh.    This begins when ones sins have been washed away at baptism, allowing the infilling of the Holy Ghost (Spirit of God), into a now spotless vessel (retaining the sinfull nature).  This Spirit that inhabits all of creation (God), by definition, has all humanity existing within Himself; God only requires a clean vessel to dwell within.

So it seems that we are (our true self) made of a substance that is much like (if not the same as) our creator: spirit.

Jesus was also born of the same ‘stuff’ as you and I, yet this flesh was clean and sinless from conception.  Jesus was still fully man: ‘self’ within a container made of ‘sinless’ flesh.  However, because His Father was Spirit, this supernatural seed conceived a truly unique ‘person’, so that it would be fair to say that this unique person had a ‘Dual-self’: “Divinity clothed in humanity”.  This “God with us” was given many titles; Wonderful, Counselor, Prince of peace, Mighty God, Emmanuel, etc, but only “One Personal Name”: JESUS.

This unique person (before being glorified into heaven) had many similarities to Spirit-filled believers:

Flesh, Born of a woman, Full humanity, Holy Ghost filled, Indwelling Fullness of God, Operating in the Spirit Realm (miracles), Dual-nature, etc.

However the differences are overwhelmingly clear:

Received worship, Forgave sin, The Only Wise God, The Holy One, Omnipresence, Omniscience, Omnipotence!

Therefore, the key difference is this:  

Due to the absence of a sinful nature in this unique person, there is absolutely no ‘separation’ whatsoever, between the substance that is God, and the substance that is Jesus!  “I and my Father are one”….”When you have seen me, you have seen the Father”…”I am in my Father, and He in me”….”We (Spirit-filled believers) have the mind of Christ”…etc.  THE FLESH IS NOT WHO HE IS!

Remember:  The body (pure vessel) of Jesus has been changed into a glorified form, so that the pure vessel which housed God is no more.  The thought (logos) of God, is no longer manifest in the flesh (until He desires to do so again).  This new form has been seen manifested as an intense bright light, and God Himself is also called Father of lights.

Regarding the above reasoning: The Eternal Spirit God remains the same unchanging substance, regardless.

Thus, the one personal name of the Spirit that is God, is none other than: JESUS.

Lookin 4ward 2 ur reply:)

     

[GJG]

To the Globalizer:)

Quick qestion:

Who sent the Comforter, the Father, Son or Holy Ghost?

[GJG]

Quote

Quote: from global on 5:41 pm on Aug. 24, 2003 Quote Quote: from GJG on 4:38 am on Aug. 23, 2003 To all, Who does the ‘works’ (miracles), Jesus or God? Hi GJG, I believe Jesus is God.

Thx again Globmeister:)

I also beleive this, but only in that the ‘Divinity of God’ or ‘Spirit of God’, dwelt within Jesus’ mortal flesh while on earth: "Divinity clothed in humanity".  This same flesh has now put on immortality to become glorified flesh.

I also agree that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one and the same substance.  This one substance being the One Spirit that is the omnipresent God.

How can the Holy Spirit be a seperate substance to the One Spirit that is everywhere in existence?

Does the Bible not teach that the Holy Spirit is the very same Spirit of God?

The Spirit-filled believer is filled with God, Christ and the Holy Ghost.  Are there three Spirits that fill believers?  certainly not, as the Bible is clear that there is only One Spirit.  We must then always keep clearly in mind that whether we are speaking of the Spirit in creation, the incarnation or at Pentecost, we are speaking of the same Spirit.  God is Spirit and there is one God.

Gimme ur thorts dude!

[GJG]

Quote

Quote: from t8 on 8:39 pm on Aug. 23, 2003 To GJG, Your quotes are in gray <font color=gray>Who does the ‘works’ (miracles), Jesus or God?</a></font> Jesus said that he only speaks what his Father says and does what his Father does. So I can only assume that God does all good things. However God was in Christ drawing all men to himself. So God the Father used his Son to do all the miracles etc. If I do a miracle is it me or God? <font color=gray>To t8, Do you agree that Jesus refers to Himself being the Holy Ghost? </font> No. <font color=gray>Who abides in, or makes their abode with born-again Spirit filled believers?  The Father, Son, or Holy Ghost? </font> I believe that it is the Spirit of God. But we must remember that Jesus is the Mediator between God and Men and the only way to God. So the Spirit comes from God, but through Christ. In this we can see that we can refer to the Spirit as the Spirit of Christ as well. The Father and the Son are one in Spirit and we can also partake of the Spirit of God and be one with them. Even though we can be one. I am still me and Jesus is still the Son of God and God will always be God. He has no equal.

John 14

14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works’ sake.
12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father’s which sent me.
25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.
28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
29 And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.
30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.
31 But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.
KJV

To t8,

I believe within this chapter alone, there is some evidence of Jesus making reference to Himself (His Divinity) being the Holy Ghost (Spirit of God).  Obviously there is already much scriptural evidence pointing to Jesus (Divinity within) being the Spirit of God, as well as the Holy Ghost being that very same Spirit.

The opening sentence begins with Jesus giving the listeners the general idea of what this teaching will be; Jesus (Divinity within) is the Father, which is also the very same Holy Ghost (Spirit of God).  He (Divinity within) and His Father are one and the same.

Jesus explains that by looking at Him, one is also looking at the Father, lining up with Jesus being the ‘image of the invisible God’.  Jesus makes it clear that He is in the omnipresent Spirit God, while at the same time this very same substance that is God, is also dwelling within Him (Divinity clothed in humanity).  Jesus stamps authority on this point when He says that the words He speaks are the same as His Fathers.

Jesus tells them that the Father dwelling in Him does the miracles, and then also tells them that it is He Himself who does the miracles.  This point is also strengthened when Jesus says that after He is glorified, He will do whatever is asked in His name.  Whatever Christians ask in His name, He will do.

The spirit of truth that ‘the world cannot receive’ and ‘neither knoweth him’ shows a remarkable similarity to the ‘Word’ in chapter one. Jesus tells them that the spirit of truth (Comforter) dwells ‘with’ them, and will later on, be ‘in’ them.  The ‘truth’ we know as being the very same person that dwells with the listeners: Jesus; “I am the truth…”.   This point is also strengthened when Jesus says that He will not leave them comfortless: “I will come to you”.  This Comforter is of course the Holy Ghost.

Interestingly enough, in this chapter Jesus says that the Father will send the Comforter, yet in the following two chapters Jesus tells them that He Himself will send the Comforter.  This again lines up with the scripture: “I and my Father are one”

So here we find:  that Spirit which dwelleth in Jesus, is the very same Spirit that indwells believers as the Holy Ghost.  The evidence in this one chapter, is compelling enough for one to understand that Jesus indeed claims to be the very same substance that is God, the same substance that also indwells believers.

Lookin 4ward 2 ur reply.      

[GJG]

To Global,

Who abides in, or makes their abode with born-again Spirit filled believers? The Father, Son, or Holy Ghost?

[GJG]

To t8,

Do you agree that Jesus refers to Himself being the Holy Ghost?

[GJG]

To all,

Who does the ‘works’ (miracles), Jesus or God?

[GJG]

To the Globster,

Thx 4 that reply,

Regarding the One substance:

Could it be that this One invisible, eternal, omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient, spirit, known as God, is also the very same substance that is known as the Holy Ghost. The same Holy Ghost that Jesus also claims to be (His Divine nature). Maybe?

[Author]

Posts