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[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 14 2012,06:37)

Quote (carmel @ Oct. 13 2012,13:20) You look at Jesus only as a human being, I look at Jesus as fully Human and as fully God. I look at Jesus as God's first creation, who existed in the form of his God as a spirit being before emptying himself and being made into a human being. He was always something more than “just human”, and he has never been “fully God”.  Even now, after he has been exalted to the highest position BY HIS GOD, he is still not God, but the Servant who sits at God's right hand. Quote (carmel @ Oct. 13 2012,13:20) the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent BOTH GOD, SPIRITWISE AND JESUS CHRIST, FLESHWISE!!! There's one our biggest differences, Charles.  I read the words “God AND Jesus Christ” like a sane person, and recognize that TWO are being discussed, only ONE of whom is “God”. You apparently read it differently, and for some reason conclude that the words “God AND Jesus Christ” mean “God AND God” or something. My understanding of those words is logical, and will work anytime the words “blank AND blank” are used.  Your understanding is illogical, which is why you claim this nonsense ONLY in the case of God and Jesus. For example, if you read “Solomon AND David”, you would NEVER come to the asinine conclusion that they were both the same being.  I could use a trillion different examples for you, and you would come to the sane and sensible conclusion each and every time…………… EXCEPT in the case of God and his servant Jesus Christ. Isn't that a little biased, Charles?  Doesn't it show that you are capable of understanding logical concepts, but since the logical conclusion doesn't support your doctrine, you are willing to toss logic aside in the case of God and His holy Servant Jesus Christ?

To ALL,

Yahshua is not the first of Yahweh's creation as Mike deceptively teaches! Yahshua is the first of ALL creation and Father Yahweh is still in the creation process.

See the following link for Scriptural proof of this:
THE PRE-EXISTENCE OF YAHSHUA
Rev. 3:14 & Col. 1:15

WHO IS THE WORD?
John Chapter One

ELOHIM: ONE, OR MORE THAN ONE?
Exodus 32
By Voy Wilks
3/9/98

The Pre-existence
Philippians 2:5-11
By Voy Wilks
1/29/92

Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?

“Jesus IS God!”?

…

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 13 2012,09:03)

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Oct. 12 2012,22:32) kerwin, I may be misunderstanding you since you used too many negatives (doubt, not, not) in one sentence, but it seemed to me that you believe I do realize the difference between the “worship” of Yahweh and the “worship” of others. I do though. For example, I believe that Yahshua can be “worshiped, but not as his and our Father Yahweh. Yahshua is “worshiped as the anointed king and high priest. Do you agee with this and do you not agree with most of what I have made known on my web page concerning the words that are translated as “worship”?: Word Studies On Worship (shachah, latreuo, and proskuneo) WHO IS THE WORD? John Chapter One ELOHIM: ONE, OR MORE THAN ONE? Exodus 32 By Voy Wilks 3/9/98 The Pre-existence Philippians 2:5-11 By Voy Wilks 1/29/92 Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth? “Jesus IS God!”? … Frank, You are correct that I used more negatives than was wise. You are also correct that I believe you know the difference between worshiping a king and worshiping Yawheh. Mike is correct that some are so used to the ways of our culture that they think the word “worship” can only be used in regards to Yawheh.  I quoted Scripture to demonstrate it is not so.

kerwin,

It seem to me that you might possibly be reading Mike wrong, since it is quite obvious from Mike's previous response to me that he “FEEL” differently about the English word “worship”. See his previous response to me and my previous response in return for proof of this. If he conveyed to you how you believe he believes concerning the English word “worship”, then he is speaking out of both sides of his mouth. Of course, this is a common character of those who out to deceive others from knowing the truth of Father Yahweh's inspired prophetic word!

WHO IS THE WORD?
John Chapter One

ELOHIM: ONE, OR MORE THAN ONE?
Exodus 32
By Voy Wilks
3/9/98

The Pre-existence
Philippians 2:5-11
By Voy Wilks
1/29/92

Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?

“Jesus IS God!”?

…

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 14 2012,06:02)

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Oct. 12 2012,10:32) For example, I believe that Yahshua can be “worshiped, but not as his and our Father Yahweh. Yahshua is “worshiped as the anointed king and high priest. What you are calling “worship” in quotation marks is what I call “doing obeisance”.  I do not call “doing obeisance” by the word “worship”, for I feel the word “worship” describes how we serve and revere ONLY Jehovah God Almighty.

That is why I always place the word “worship” within quotation marks. There are a number of different Hebrew and Greek words that have been translated into our English language as “worship”. I previously gave Pie the definition of the word “worship” in our English language which has diverse meanings. I had also previously made it known to him that it all depends on how the English word “worship” is used in the context of what it being said that determines its meaning within the context. I really do not care about how you feel or who you personally refer the word “worship” to. In fact, I do not not care to hear anything you have to say because of your constant refusal to accept reproof and correction and instruction in righteousness in accordance with Father Yahweh's inspired prophetic word and your failure to use common sense.

WHO IS THE WORD?
John Chapter One

ELOHIM: ONE, OR MORE THAN ONE?
Exodus 32
By Voy Wilks
3/9/98

The Pre-existence
Philippians 2:5-11
By Voy Wilks
1/29/92

Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?

“Jesus IS God!”?

…

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 13 2012,10:10)

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Oct. 11 2012,15:18) No, this transaltion does not say “this spirit enable[d] this girl to foretell the future ACCURATELY! Use your God-given common sense here, Frank.  If her owners got very rich from her predictions, chances are that they were ACCURATE predictions.  Not too many people will pay to have their fortunes told by someone who is always wrong, right?  Her owners became rich because her predictions were ACCURATE. Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Oct. 11 2012,15:18) Who was this spirit? It actually does not identify who this spirit was in this translation, now does it? Once again, your God-given human logic and common sense comes into play here, Frank.  Paul expelled this spirit from the girl, right?  What is another name used for the spirits that Jesus and the disciples expelled from the Jews?  Weren't they often called “demons” and “devils”?  Read Luke 10:17 to find out which spirits submitted to the disciples of Jesus, Frank.  Are they not called “devils” and “demons” in that verse?  And aren't “devils” and “demons” called gods in the scripture, just as Kerwin has pointed out to you? So I ask again:  Who do you THINK this spirit was?  Do you THINK it was a man-made idol who couldn't speak or move?  Or do you THINK it was most likely one of Satan's angels……… one who had the POWER to foretell the future?

YOUR “God” has never given me anything of any worth! In fact, you “worship Gods” that are nothing but powerless and worthless idols!  

WHO IS THE WORD?
John Chapter One

ELOHIM: ONE, OR MORE THAN ONE?
Exodus 32
By Voy Wilks
3/9/98

The Pre-existence
Philippians 2:5-11
By Voy Wilks
1/29/92

Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?

“Jesus IS God!”?

…

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 12 2012,11:09)

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 11 2012,17:21) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 11 2012,22:28) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 11 2012,09:31) F So your debate is deceitful ,just as the words you using are ambiguous ,right T, Is speaking English deceitful because words are ambiguous? I would use fluid as the meaning changes with context just as both Greek and Hebrew words do.  Some contexts do create a certain amount of ambitiousness that can lead to miscommunications. Kerwin nice try but you mist the point ,i was not talking about the language but about the use of ambiguous words in that language ,and his  knowingly used to make others fall in a trap.you are very good at it , I DO NOT RECALL GOD USING SUCH A VOCABULARY AND INTENTION, it becomes obvious that the ones using those means are not true in their hearts ,and so do not have truth in mind when speaking.THIS IS NOT THE WAY OF CHRIST ,NOR OF HIS TRUE FOLLOWERS T, God uses ambiguous words for the same reason Jesus speaks in parables. Those who seek his righteousness and kingdom will come to understand them. I doubt that either you or Frank do not understand that when Scripture speaks of the people worshiping their it does not mean the same as them worshiping Jehovah.

kerwin,

I may be misunderstanding you since you used too many negatives (doubt, not, not) in one sentence, but it seemed to me that you believe I do realize the difference between the “worship” of Yahweh and the “worship” of others. I do though. For example, I believe that Yahshua can be “worshiped, but not as his and our Father Yahweh. Yahshua is “worshiped as the anointed king and high priest. Do you agee with this and do you not agree with most of what I have made known on my web page concerning the words that are translated as “worship”?:
Word Studies On Worship
(shachah, latreuo, and proskuneo)

WHO IS THE WORD?
John Chapter One

ELOHIM: ONE, OR MORE THAN ONE?
Exodus 32
By Voy Wilks
3/9/98

The Pre-existence
Philippians 2:5-11
By Voy Wilks
1/29/92

Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?

“Jesus IS God!”?

…

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 12 2012,07:29)

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 11 2012,12:41) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 12 2012,12:29) Why?  It is because the translators know what we all seem to know……………….  the word “worship”, as we generally understand it, concerns the obeisance given ONLY to God Almighty, and to no one else. Mike Kerwin and frank know that this is why they have deceit in them The truth in them as told them so but because my English andicapt they play the devil game I also believe they know full well what you were saying, Pierre.  Sometimes people are purposely difficult when they're trying to make their own point without acknowledging the other person's point.

Now that is a laugh! Really? We know full well what he is saying when he can't even communicate properly in English and is not aware that words have diverse definitions? Communicating with you, Pie and t is like communicating with a box of rocks!  

WHO IS THE WORD?
John Chapter One

ELOHIM: ONE, OR MORE THAN ONE?
Exodus 32
By Voy Wilks
3/9/98

The Pre-existence
Philippians 2:5-11
By Voy Wilks
1/29/92

Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?

“Jesus IS God!”?

…

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 12 2012,04:57)

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Oct. 10 2012,12:14) You fail to realize that my disagreement with you is that you believe that IDOLS/GODS have power when in fact Scripture clearly teaches that they do not. Scripture actually teaches the opposite of what you teach, Frank.  Many of the gods mentioned in scripture displayed their power. Consider this scripture: Acts 16 New International Version 1984 16 Once when we were going to the place of prayer, we were met by a slave girl who had a spirit by which she predicted the future. She earned a great deal of money for her owners by fortune-telling. 17 This girl followed Paul and the rest of us, shouting, “These men are servants of the Most High God, who are telling you the way to be saved.” 18 She kept this up for many days. Finally Paul became so troubled that he turned around and said to the spirit, “In the name of Jesus Christ I command you to come out of her!” At that moment the spirit left her. Who was this “spirit”, Frank?  And by what POWER did this spirit enable this girl to foretell the future accurately? You need to take off you blinders, and BELIEVE what you are taught in the scriptures, Frank.  Satan is called “the god of this age” in scripture, yet you would have us believing that Satan has no power whatsoever.  Yet, that which you preach goes against the rest of the scriptures.

Where in any of these verses and passages of this translation that you have presented does it ever say that these spirits are IDOLS/GODS?

No, this transaltion does not say “this spirit enable[d] this girl to foretell the future ACCURATELY!

Who was this spirit? It actually does not identify who this spirit was in this translation, now does it?

How convenient of you to present to me a translation worded in such a manner!

You might want to check out a number of other translations of these verses and passages from the following link before you again attempt to deceive one who is much wiser than you!
http://bible.cc

WHO IS THE WORD?
John Chapter One

ELOHIM: ONE, OR MORE THAN ONE?
Exodus 32
By Voy Wilks
3/9/98

The Pre-existence
Philippians 2:5-11
By Voy Wilks
1/29/92

Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?

“Jesus IS God!”?

…

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 12 2012,04:31)

Quote (limjunus @ Oct. 09 2012,22:12) Mike, believe that there are many gods and among so many gods, there is only true God. Jehovah, is the only true God to be worship alone … …. and Jesus Christ, even though he is a god, he should not be worship together with so called gods in this world. Frank Believe that there is only one true God, the Father of Jesus Christ and his apostles/disciples and the other so called gods and lords are not true gods but instead representing the gods of the world. The confusing factors is, the word “gods”, meant to Mike, “that we should recognize that there are existing called gods, even though there are not true God. So the problem between Mike and Frank is, a.) Mike: recognize that the so called gods are existing gods and should not be taken not true gods. b.) Frank: the so called gods should not be recognize as the only true God, instead shall be known the gods as false god. Correct me if I am wrong with my comprehension? You have summed it up correctly, as far as I can tell, limjunis.  As usual, you are very perceptive. Now, just consider the two final conclusions you came to: a.) Mike: recognize that the so called gods are existing gods and should not be taken [as] not true gods. b.) Frank: the so called gods should not be recognize as the only true God, instead shall be known the gods as false god. Which one of those conclusions allows for Jesus to be called god in scripture (which he is), but DOESN'T allow for Jesus to be a “false god” (which he is not)? Scripturally speaking, my understanding is the only one that fits the scriptures, yet doesn't have Jesus being a “false god”.

No, limjunis has not summed it up correctly, since I have never said such foolishness as “the so called gods should not be recognize as the only true God, instead shall be known the gods as false god.”

I also do not believe “that there is only one true God, the Father of Jesus Christ and his apostles/disciples and the other so called gods and lords are not true gods but instead representing the gods of the world.

WHO IS THE WORD?
John Chapter One

ELOHIM: ONE, OR MORE THAN ONE?
Exodus 32
By Voy Wilks
3/9/98

The Pre-existence
Philippians 2:5-11
By Voy Wilks
1/29/92

Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?

“Jesus IS God!”?

…

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Oct. 12 2012,00:46)

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 11 2012,14:31) F So your debate is deceitful ,just as the words you using are ambiguous ,right No, you are the one who is being deceitful in your responding to me on this furum, so you need not respond to me again, because I will not never respond to you again. This is a prime example in how Pie is shown favortism here in that he may break the rule in lying against others and get away with it. WHO IS THE WORD? John Chapter One ELOHIM: ONE, OR MORE THAN ONE? Exodus 32 By Voy Wilks 3/9/98 The Pre-existence Philippians 2:5-11 By Voy Wilks 1/29/92 Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth? “Jesus IS God!”? …

*EVER!

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 11 2012,14:31)

F So your debate is deceitful ,just as the words you using are ambiguous ,right

No, you are the one who is being deceitful in your responding to me on this furum, so you need not respond to me again, because I will not never respond to you again.

This is a prime example in how Pie is shown favortism here in that he may break the rule in lying against others and get away with it.

WHO IS THE WORD?
John Chapter One

ELOHIM: ONE, OR MORE THAN ONE?
Exodus 32
By Voy Wilks
3/9/98

The Pre-existence
Philippians 2:5-11
By Voy Wilks
1/29/92

Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?

“Jesus IS God!”?

…

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Continuing on from where I left off in giving refutation of this article …

Quote

A closer look at verse 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: Now I am not sure if Jesus was exalted higher than he was before he came to this world or whether he was exalted to the exact position that he had before. But if we look at John 17:5 again we can see that Jesus asked to return to his former glory.

As you will note, the author of this article says “Now I am not sure if Jesus was exalted higher than he was before he came to this world or whether he was exalted to the exact position that he had before.”

It is obvious that he is exalted TO THE POSITION OF ESTEEM [“GLORY”] that he had before the world was in that he was esteemed in his and our Father Yahweh's plan before the world was. Note that Yahshua's words to his and our Father Yahweh is clearly in reference to the ESTEEM [“GLORY”] that he had with Him before the world was, not to his pre-existing with Him in the beginning as an actual being.

Quote

John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began. The above verse is clear about Christ's pre-existence in glory before the world began. The next verse also confirms that Jesus pre-existed in Heaven. John 3:12-15 12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? 13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven, the Son of Man. 14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.

Please see:

Yahshua Came Down From Heaven
By Voy Wilks
1990 – Revised 1993

WHO IS THE WORD?
John Chapter One

ELOHIM: ONE, OR MORE THAN ONE?
Exodus 32
By Voy Wilks
3/9/98

Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?

“Jesus IS God!”?

…

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 11 2012,12:58)

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Oct. 11 2012,19:48) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 11 2012,12:42) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Oct. 11 2012,19:34) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 11 2012,11:53) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 11 2012,17:06) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 11 2012,02:50) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 11 2012,13:40) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 10 2012,21:00) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 11 2012,03:15) To all, Why did the congregation “worship” David? 1 Chronicles 29:20 King James Version (KJV) 20 And David said to all the congregation, Now bless the Lord your God. And all the congregation blessed the Lord God of their fathers, and bowed down their heads, and worshipped the Lord, and the king. k how did they worshiped THE LORD  AND HOW COULD THEY WORSHIP THE KING ? please detail it T, The scripture states they bowed down their heads and worshiped Jehovah and David.  I do not see an answer to the how they did, beyond bowing their heads, but it is clear, that in some manner of speaking, they did. K they did not worship David the man ,but David the king ,the King that God as chosen and so all glory goes to God T, Sounds like you have drawn a reasonable implication from the passage.  Would you agree that Jesus, as a greater king than David, can be worshiped in a like manner while existing as a human being? K I would not call that worship,but give honor worship does it not mean render a cult No, it does not mean “render a cult”! WORSHIP – As Defined In Our English Language: worship – noun 1. reverent honor and homage paid to God or a sacred personage, or to any object regarded as sacred. … 5. (initial capital letter) British . a title of honor used in addressing or mentioning certain magistrates and others of high rank or station (usually preceded by Your, His,  or Her). verb (used without object) 8. to render religious reverence and homage, as to a deity. 9. to attend services of divine worship. 10. to feel an adoring reverence or regard. Synonyms 3.  honor, homage, adoration, idolatry. 7.  honor, venerate, revere, adore, glorify, idolize, adulate. World English Dictionary 1. ( tr ) to show profound religious devotion and respect to; adore or venerate (God or any person or thing considered divine) 2. ( tr ) to be devoted to and full of admiration for 3. ( intr ) to have or express feelings of profound adoration 4. ( intr ) to attend services for worship 5. obsolete  ( tr ) to honour — n 6. religious adoration or devotion 7. the formal expression of religious adoration; rites, prayers, etc 8. admiring love or devotion 9. archaic  dignity or standing SOURCE Word Studies On Worship (shachah, latreuo, and proskuneo) WHO IS THE WORD? John Chapter One ELOHIM: ONE, OR MORE THAN ONE? Exodus 32 By Voy Wilks 3/9/98 The Pre-existence Philippians 2:5-11 By Voy Wilks 1/29/92 Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth? “Jesus IS God!”? … F thank you ,so if we say to honor someone it would also mean that we worship him ,right so render honor to a king,or magistrate or someone who did something deserving honor, this would also mean that we worship them right Yes, it all depends on how the word “worship” is used and to whom that determines the specific meaning. F so the word “worship ” is some how ambiguous right

Yes, as are also many other English words.

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 11 2012,12:42)

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Oct. 11 2012,19:34) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 11 2012,11:53) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 11 2012,17:06) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 11 2012,02:50) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 11 2012,13:40) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 10 2012,21:00) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 11 2012,03:15) To all, Why did the congregation “worship” David? 1 Chronicles 29:20 King James Version (KJV) 20 And David said to all the congregation, Now bless the Lord your God. And all the congregation blessed the Lord God of their fathers, and bowed down their heads, and worshipped the Lord, and the king. k how did they worshiped THE LORD  AND HOW COULD THEY WORSHIP THE KING ? please detail it T, The scripture states they bowed down their heads and worshiped Jehovah and David.  I do not see an answer to the how they did, beyond bowing their heads, but it is clear, that in some manner of speaking, they did. K they did not worship David the man ,but David the king ,the King that God as chosen and so all glory goes to God T, Sounds like you have drawn a reasonable implication from the passage.  Would you agree that Jesus, as a greater king than David, can be worshiped in a like manner while existing as a human being? K I would not call that worship,but give honor worship does it not mean render a cult No, it does not mean “render a cult”! WORSHIP – As Defined In Our English Language: worship – noun 1. reverent honor and homage paid to God or a sacred personage, or to any object regarded as sacred. … 5. (initial capital letter) British . a title of honor used in addressing or mentioning certain magistrates and others of high rank or station (usually preceded by Your, His,  or Her). verb (used without object) 8. to render religious reverence and homage, as to a deity. 9. to attend services of divine worship. 10. to feel an adoring reverence or regard. Synonyms 3.  honor, homage, adoration, idolatry. 7.  honor, venerate, revere, adore, glorify, idolize, adulate. World English Dictionary 1. ( tr ) to show profound religious devotion and respect to; adore or venerate (God or any person or thing considered divine) 2. ( tr ) to be devoted to and full of admiration for 3. ( intr ) to have or express feelings of profound adoration 4. ( intr ) to attend services for worship 5. obsolete  ( tr ) to honour — n 6. religious adoration or devotion 7. the formal expression of religious adoration; rites, prayers, etc 8. admiring love or devotion 9. archaic  dignity or standing SOURCE Word Studies On Worship (shachah, latreuo, and proskuneo) WHO IS THE WORD? John Chapter One ELOHIM: ONE, OR MORE THAN ONE? Exodus 32 By Voy Wilks 3/9/98 The Pre-existence Philippians 2:5-11 By Voy Wilks 1/29/92 Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth? “Jesus IS God!”? … F thank you ,so if we say to honor someone it would also mean that we worship him ,right so render honor to a king,or magistrate or someone who did something deserving honor, this would also mean that we worship them right

Yes, it all depends on how the word “worship” is used and to whom that determines the specific meaning.

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 11 2012,11:53)

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 11 2012,17:06) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 11 2012,02:50) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 11 2012,13:40) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 10 2012,21:00) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 11 2012,03:15) To all, Why did the congregation “worship” David? 1 Chronicles 29:20 King James Version (KJV) 20 And David said to all the congregation, Now bless the Lord your God. And all the congregation blessed the Lord God of their fathers, and bowed down their heads, and worshipped the Lord, and the king. k how did they worshiped THE LORD  AND HOW COULD THEY WORSHIP THE KING ? please detail it T, The scripture states they bowed down their heads and worshiped Jehovah and David.  I do not see an answer to the how they did, beyond bowing their heads, but it is clear, that in some manner of speaking, they did. K they did not worship David the man ,but David the king ,the King that God as chosen and so all glory goes to God T, Sounds like you have drawn a reasonable implication from the passage.  Would you agree that Jesus, as a greater king than David, can be worshiped in a like manner while existing as a human being? K I would not call that worship,but give honor worship does it not mean render a cult

No, it does not mean “render a cult”!

WORSHIP – As Defined In Our English Language:

worship – noun
1. reverent honor and homage paid to God or a sacred personage, or to any object regarded as sacred.

…

5. (initial capital letter) British . a title of honor used in addressing or mentioning certain magistrates and others of high rank or station (usually preceded by Your, His,  or Her).

verb (used without object)

8.
to render religious reverence and homage, as to a deity.
9.
to attend services of divine worship.
10.
to feel an adoring reverence or regard.

Synonyms

3.  honor, homage, adoration, idolatry. 7.  honor, venerate, revere, adore, glorify, idolize, adulate.

World English Dictionary

1. ( tr ) to show profound religious devotion and respect to; adore or venerate (God or any person or thing considered divine)
2. ( tr ) to be devoted to and full of admiration for
3. ( intr ) to have or express feelings of profound adoration
4. ( intr ) to attend services for worship
5. obsolete  ( tr ) to honour

— n
6. religious adoration or devotion
7. the formal expression of religious adoration; rites, prayers, etc
8. admiring love or devotion
9. archaic  dignity or standing
SOURCE

Word Studies On Worship
(shachah, latreuo, and proskuneo)

WHO IS THE WORD?
John Chapter One

ELOHIM: ONE, OR MORE THAN ONE?
Exodus 32
By Voy Wilks
3/9/98

The Pre-existence
Philippians 2:5-11
By Voy Wilks
1/29/92

Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?

“Jesus IS God!”?

…

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 11 2012,10:06)

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 11 2012,02:50) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 11 2012,13:40) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 10 2012,21:00) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 11 2012,03:15) To all, Why did the congregation “worship” David? 1 Chronicles 29:20 King James Version (KJV) 20 And David said to all the congregation, Now bless the Lord your God. And all the congregation blessed the Lord God of their fathers, and bowed down their heads, and worshipped the Lord, and the king. k how did they worshiped THE LORD  AND HOW COULD THEY WORSHIP THE KING ? please detail it T, The scripture states they bowed down their heads and worshiped Jehovah and David.  I do not see an answer to the how they did, beyond bowing their heads, but it is clear, that in some manner of speaking, they did. K they did not worship David the man ,but David the king ,the King that God as chosen and so all glory goes to God T, Sounds like you have drawn a reasonable implication from the passage.  Would you agree that Jesus, as a greater king than David, can be worshiped in a like manner while existing as a human being?

I would most definitely agree that Yahshua can be “worshiped” as a greater King than Dawid in the same manner in that he was also “worshiped” as a King.

Word Studies On Worship
(shachah, latreuo, and proskuneo)

WHO IS THE WORD?
John Chapter One

ELOHIM: ONE, OR MORE THAN ONE?
Exodus 32
By Voy Wilks
3/9/98

The Pre-existence
Philippians 2:5-11
By Voy Wilks
1/29/92

Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?

“Jesus IS God!”?

…

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 11 2012,05:31)

f Quote Again, “IDOLS/GODS” are “NOTHING” and have no power whatsoever. They can not speak, move, walk, do righteousness, and in fact can do no harm. It is quite obvious to me that they have no power whatsoever since, they must be carried. this is only true if you know him( the true God),if not those false gods are the best that people have ,and that means they are everything to them,

I am no mere “God” worshiper! This most certainly includes the very “God” that you foolishly worship!

Word Studies On Worship
(shachah, latreuo, and proskuneo)

WHO IS THE WORD?
John Chapter One

ELOHIM: ONE, OR MORE THAN ONE?
Exodus 32
By Voy Wilks
3/9/98

The Pre-existence
Philippians 2:5-11
By Voy Wilks
1/29/92

Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?

“Jesus IS God!”?

…

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 11 2012,02:00)

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 11 2012,03:15) To all, Why did the congregation “worship” David? 1 Chronicles 29:20 King James Version (KJV) 20 And David said to all the congregation, Now bless the Lord your God. And all the congregation blessed the Lord God of their fathers, and bowed down their heads, and worshipped the Lord, and the king. k how did they worshiped THE LORD  AND HOW COULD THEY WORSHIP THE KING ? please detail it

Note who is being “worshiped” in the following verses:

Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Yahdahim [Praisers of Yahweh], and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you (Revelation 3:9).

And let peoples serve thee, and tribes worship thee: be thou lord of thy brethren, and let they mother's children bow down before thee. Cursed be he that curseth thee: and let him that blesseth thee be filled with blessings. (Genesis 27-29 – Douay-Rheims Bible).

Word Studies On Worship
(shachah, latreuo, and proskuneo)

WHO IS THE WORD?
John Chapter One

ELOHIM: ONE, OR MORE THAN ONE?
Exodus 32
By Voy Wilks
3/9/98

The Pre-existence
Philippians 2:5-11
By Voy Wilks
1/29/92

Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?

“Jesus IS God!”?

…

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 10 2012,06:35)

Frank, There is no scripture that says Jesus was worshipped as if he was God Almighty.   So YES, Jesus IS called a god in many scriptures, but NO, he is not the Most High God – who alone is to be worshipped as our God. Angels are also called gods in scripture, but they are not to be worshipped as God Almighty. Men are also called gods in scripture, but they are not to be worshipped as God Almighty. Frank, I base my understanding of scriptures on what the scriptures actually teach – not on what is “politically correct” in today's society.  So YES, I acknowledge the existence of gods who are not Jehovah, but NO, I don't worship any of those as if they were God Almighty. I worship only ONE God.  His name is YHWH, and I call Him “Jehovah”. To post other than that about me is to post a lie, Frank.  People who continue to post lies, after being corrected about their “mistake”, receive tiles.

YOUKNOWWHATYOUDO,

It seems that you are hell-bent on getting me off of this forum. Well, go for it! As if I really care what foolish god worshipers do!

I never said “There is scripture that says Jesus was worshipped as if he was God Almighty.”

Nowhere in Scripture is Yahshua ever called “God”.

Makakim [“Angels”] are called “god” in Scripture TRANSLATIONS. I have never said that they were to be worshiped as Yahweh Almighty.

No, you do not base your understanding on what Scripture actually teaches. WHATYOUDO is in fact pervert Scripture (Father Yahweh's inspired prophetic word).

Again, “IDOLS/GODS” are “NOTHING” and have no power whatsoever. They can not speak, move, walk, do righteousness, and in fact can do no harm. It is quite obvious to me that they have no power whatsoever since, they must be carried.

For ALL the GODS of the nations ARE IDOLS, but Yahweh made the heavens (Psalm 96:5; 1 Chronicles 16:27).

Like a scarecrow in a melon patch, their idols cannot speak; they must be carried because they cannot walk. Do not fear them; they can do no harm nor can they do anything righteous (Yeremyah 10:5).

You fail to realize that my disagreement with you is that you believe that IDOLS/GODS have power when in fact Scripture clearly teaches that they do not. Since you have openly stated that you recognize that these IDOLS/GODS have power, you in turn teach a lie. Since you have stated “People who continue to post lies, after being corrected about their “mistake”, receive tiles.”, you need to give yourself MANY tiles! Since Scripture clearly teaches that many are deceived into believing these IDOLS/GODS have power and that it is in fact Satan himself and his legion of demons behind these idols, you are in fact following Satan who has been a liar from the very beginning. Since you are following in the lie of Satan, you are in fact also being deceived worshiping these many IDOLS/GODS.

*Do I mean then that a sacrifice offered to an idol is anything, or that an idol is anything? No, but the sacrifices of pagans [the nations] are offered to demons, not to Yahweh, and I do not want you to be participants with demons. You cannot drink the cup of Yahweh and the cup of demons too; you cannot have a part in both Yahweh's table and the table of demons (1 Corinthians 10:19-21).

*NOTE:
So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols [“gods”]: We know that an idol [“god”] is NOTHING AT ALL IN THE WORLD and that THERE IS NO MIGHTY ONE [source of power {authority}, strength or might] BUT ONE.

WHO IS THE WORD?
John Chapter One

ELOHIM: ONE, OR MORE THAN ONE?
Exodus 32
By Voy Wilks
3/9/98

The Pre-existence
Philippians 2:5-11
By Voy Wilks
1/29/92

Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?

“Jesus IS God!”?

…

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 10 2012,04:23)

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Oct. 09 2012,10:32) I am not lying against you in saying that you worship “GODS”, since I have seen you clearly give reference to both YOUR “Jehovah” and YOUR “Jesus” as “GOD”. Frank, If you cannot produce the post from me where I said I worship Jesus (or anyone else but Jehovah) as my God, then you have in fact lied against me by stating that I worship gods (plural). You have done the same to Kerwin, who I know worships only Jehovah as well. It seems to me that you are a little slower than most here, but surely you can understand the difference between worshipping one God, and worshipping “gods”, right?   I worship one God.  His name is YHWH, and I call Him “Jehovah”.

YOUKNOWWHATYOUDO,

And still you insist on entering into a debate with me by responding!  

So, you do not believe that we are to “worship” the Messiah as your translation of Scripture clearly teaches and do you not in fact refer to YOUR “Jesus” as “GOD”? It is quite obvious to me that you are the liar and not I! Following is just one of several occassions where it shows clearly in Scripture Yahshua being “worshiped”:

Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him [Yahshua] saying, Of a truth you are the son of Yahweh (Mattithyah 14:23).

It is quite obvious to me that they did not “worship” Yahshua as our Heavenly Father and Creator and most certainly not as “GOD” as you erroneously do!

I do not believe that I have to waste my time producing a post from you where you worship YOUR “Jesus” as YOUR “GOD”, since it is quite obvious to me in many of your posts that you clearly and erroneously give reference to him as “GOD”. My count is clearly quite accurate in that you worship TWO “GODS” with ONE being named “Jehovah” and THE OTHER being named “Jesus”. ONE “GOD” and THE OTHER “GOD” is clearly a count of TWO “GODS” to me! YOUR “Jesus” most certainly is not MY “GOD”, but is in fact YOURS!

WHO IS THE WORD?
John Chapter One

ELOHIM: ONE, OR MORE THAN ONE?
Exodus 32
By Voy Wilks
3/9/98

The Pre-existence
Philippians 2:5-11
By Voy Wilks
1/29/92

Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?

“Jesus IS God!”?

…

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 08 2012,04:30)

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Oct. 06 2012,19:32) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 05 2012,07:55) Frank, I worship and serve as God ONLY Jehovah – the God of gods who created the heavens, the earth, and everything in them, including His Son Jesus Christ. You should now be very clear on this matter, and I should therefore never have to read another post from you where you talk about me worshipping “gods”. YOUKNOWWHATYOUDO, If one says “I worship and serve as GOD ONLY Jehovah …” that would be ONE “god” and then “… including His Son Jesus Christ.” whom I have also heard you MANY times also refer to as “GOD”, that then would clearly be two “GODS” by my calculation and not not that you “… worship and serve as God ONLY Jehovah” as you have so erroneously calculated. I can only conclude that now it is very clear on this matter that I was in fact correct and can say from here on out that you are worshipping “GODS” PLURAL and not “GOD” SINGULAR. Frank, I often wonder about the state of your brain.  Satan is called a god in scripture, but I don't worship and serve him as my God. Jesus is called a god in scripture, but I don't worship and serve him as my God. Deborah was called a god in scripture, but I don't worship and serve her as my God.   Most sensible people can understand that “indeed there are many gods and lords, both in heaven and on earth”, but I only worship and serve as my God Jehovah the Father. Apparently you are not “most sensible people”, Frank.  So let's just suffice to say:  I don't worship anyone as God except for Jehovah the Father.  Don't ever again post that I do, because lying against other members here breaks the rules of the site, and warrants tiles. Are we clear now?

YOUKNOWWHATYOUDO,

Please stop feeding me your bull crap lies! You are in fact the one who has been lying against me in this forum ever since you started communicating with me with your unwanted dispute. I told you clearly from the very beginning that I did not wish to enter into any dispute with you on what it is that I believe, but it is you who have been insistent in doing so. Again, if you do not agree with what I have posted in this forum, all that I can suggest to you is that you simply no longer respond to my posts.

I am not lying against you in saying that you worship “GODS”, since I have seen you clearly give reference to both YOUR “Jehovah” and YOUR “Jesus” as “GOD”. I myself do not give reference to our Heavenly Father and Creator Yahweh and His son Yahshua as mere “GODS”, since I believe as Scripture clearly teaches that “ALL the 'GODS' of the nations are idols.” You are in fact making Father Yahweh and His son Yahshua out to be mere “IDOLS/GODS” when in fact they are not. “GODS” are nothing but Satan himself posing as if he in fact has power. You can continue lying agaist me till you are blue in the face for all I care, but I will never give reverence to YOUR mere “GODS” that you so foolishly worship!

WHO IS THE WORD?
John Chapter One

ELOHIM: ONE, OR MORE THAN ONE?
Exodus 32
By Voy Wilks
3/9/98

The Pre-existence
Philippians 2:5-11
By Voy Wilks
1/29/92

Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?

“Jesus IS God!”?

…

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