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[Bernheart]

TK, I wasn't previously able to give your post the response that I felt it deserves, so here it goes.

I really do think I see where you are coming from, and I think you are right, to a certain extent. Everything ultimately is God. We are from God and go back to God. Except for the time we are away from God (our time here on earth). Because we must function within the framework of our earthly existence while we are on earth, I don't think that it is beneficial to think within the framework of “being” God. For me, it leads too close to many dangerous pitfalls in self-perception and loss of humility.

To think of salvation as right-thinking is partly true, this is an important part of being righteous, but my point is, we must go through the Holy Spirit on a moment by moment basis to remain in fellowship with God.

I do think we are saying very close to the same thing. What we choose to believe (sow) is what we will reap in this life. But I don't think that we decide what are good and evil thoughts or believing. I think we turn that over to God (through the Holy Spirit) and do as he directs.

Our perspectives are very similar. In my view, “evil” is merely not doing God's will. Yours, if I undertand correctly, is wrong thinking, or not believing God. Maybe we are saying the same thing, but to me, leaving out the direct connection we have to God and making it our “choice” to believe or think “evil” into existence takes too much on ourselves.

I will say that in my experience God does care “a lick” what I do in my life, but I do not rely on the world's perception of good and evil to determine what my actions should be. God alone knows what is “good” or “evil” in any given situation or moment. He has given us the abilty to know his will if we choose to do so. Sometimes I choose God's will, sometimes (unfortunately) I still don't. Maybe someday I will choose God all the time everytime, but probably not. This to me, is our journey toward the perfection of Christ. It is a goal that I know that I will probably never achieve, but I will give it my best shot anyway.

I hope this might be a “bridge” between our understandings

In Christ,

-Bernard

[Bernheart]

TK, I see where you are coming from, and it is an interesting thought, although it doesn't jive with my reading of scripture or personal experience. I think scriptures make it pretty plain that there is an adversary who is actively working in this world to prove God wrong. I realize that for many people, belief in the actual existence of evil (not just a construct of our minds) is incompatible with the belief in a just and loving God. Why did God create evil? Why is there so much suffering? Yes, our believing plays a major role in bringing evil into the world, but I believe that there is a force working in this world to undermine the will of God. Why? That is something that only God can give the answer to.

In Christ,

-Bernard

[Bernheart]

I'm sorry,

Bring it.

…Amen.

-Bernard

[Bernheart]

Bring it.

[Bernheart]

By evidences, I mean the manifestations of the Holy Spirit (1 Cor. 12) Wisdom, knowledge, faith, healing, miracles, prophecy, discerning of spirits, and speaking in tounges. As well as the gift ministries; apostles, prophets, teachers, miracle workers, healers, administrators, interpreters, and gifts of tounges? Are we, as brothers in Christ, going to continually argue points of doctrine, or show the world what the power of the Holy Spirit can do in this world?

[Bernheart]

He has. Above all that I could ask or expect. Can we bring a knowlege of all of God's evidences to this world and right this ship or is it too late?

[Bernheart]

You bless me Ed!

[Bernheart]

I just picked up this thread. I like the discussion of the creation. Too many people overlook its importance in understanding our reationship to God and Jesus Christ's role in our redemption. Here's how I see the creation story.

God (through Jesus Christ) made the creation. God created Adam and Eve. Everything worked the way he wanted it to. God gave Adam and Eve free-will because he wanted mankind to love him for how awesome his is, not because we have no other option.

Up until they partook of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, Adam and Eve lived in the perfect love and knowledge of God. They always did God's will, because there was a perfect communion between God and his creation. When they ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, Adam and Eve, as the serpent said, became like God; able to know something other than God's will. In effect, they gained the ability to know that there were things that were “good” (righteous or the will of God) and things that were “evil” (or against the will of God).

In breaking God's command not to eat of the tree, they had sinned and were banished from the garden. The way I see it, in eating of the tree, Adam and Eve had taken on themselves the burden of deciding what is right and wrong instead of existing in God's will (perfect love). This would be the burden of mankind troughout history. I see the old testament as God's proof that even if he tells (and writes down for us) everything that we have to do to be righteous, of our own will,  we cannot do it. We cannot choose the “right” thing to do without the direct connection that Adam had in the beginning.

So in my view sin is simply not doing God's will. It doesn't mean a list of things that are bad or wrong, it is simply not doing what God wants you to do. Doing the most self-sacrificing missionary work is still sin if that is not what God wants you to be doing.

Here is the neat part. What Christ did on the cross was to enable us to have the same connection to God that he did while on earth; the same connection that Adam had in the beginning. Instead of taking the choice upon himself as to the right or wrong thing to do at any given moment, he asked God what to do. He could have chosen, just as Satan and Adam had previously, to decide for himself what the right or wrong thing to do is, but he didn't. He did exactly what God wanted him to do at each moment. He gave us the choice, not to do good or evil, but to not choose; to just do God's will. (this is the danger of the trinity; by making Jesus into God, it denies that Jesus could have done other than God's will. The power of Christ's life is that he did what Adam and Satan had not; he chose not to choose, and thereby redeemed us all, if we choose to follow him).

This direct connection (unity or “oneness”) with God that Adam had (and lost) and Jesus had (and passed on to us) is the Holy Spirit. When we accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour. We open the door to being filled with the Holy Spirit which allows us the ability to live as Christ did. We now have the ability, not to choose “right” and “wrong”, but to not choose; to only do what God wants us to be doing at each moment. This is to live each moment in the fullness of the knowledge of God; to live in everlasting love and unity with God, Christ, each other, and the creation!!

It is our choice whether each moment we choose to seek God's will through the Holy Spirit, or to partake of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and decide that we know what the right or wrong thing to do in any given moment. The power of this revelation floors me with the perfection of God's plan and what Christ did for us on earth through his life, death, and ressurection. GOD BE PRAISED!

I know that this only scratches the surface of the depth of what God has done, but I pray that it might be a starting point to explore the awesome power that God through Christ Jesus has made available to us.

-God Bless,

Bernard

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