Mystery of the Jews

This topic has 87 replies, 9 voices, and was last updated 5 years ago by Proclaimer.

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June 8, 2015 at 3:49 pm#799185
kerwin
Participant
Nick,
It is wise to follow the religion of the one true which is the religion practiced by Moses, Joshua, David, and the Prophets.
Were the Jews that had Jesus crucified following that religion in killing the Messiah they claimed to await instead of believing in him?
Was Paul in his zeal following that religion when he pursued the followers of the Messiah he was awaiting?
Give up you false traditions and admit that the true Christian religion is the religion that Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, and Jesus all followed.
June 8, 2015 at 4:36 pm#799188
NickHassan
Participant
Hi KW,
Are you a follower of RELIGION?
Dead end that one.

There is no longer Jew or Greek

June 8, 2015 at 5:56 pm#799190
kerwin
Participant
Nick,
A fair number of those I named are not Jews but Jesus is Jew. The Spirit does not change bloodlines it changes the heart. Paul was not speaking of religion as the Greeks were no longer pagans while the Jews still worshiped the one true God they were taught to worship from their youth. It is the Greeks that converted to worship God as the Jews, such as Nathan, were already doing.
Romans 10:12-13Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
There is also this one:
Romans 3:21-25Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
June 8, 2015 at 6:35 pm#799191
NickHassan
Participant
Hi KW,
But you cannot claim any bloodline.
You adopted yourself into their covenant?
June 10, 2015 at 8:16 pm#799366
Proclaimer
Participant
Thanks for the share DavidL, I will watch that now.
There is a conspiracy theory that suggests that the Jews are going back to their country so it is easier to wipe them out.
So long as they exist among the nations, their enemies can never get rid of them as some say.
June 13, 2015 at 9:12 am#799453
DavidL
Participant
In trying to understand the anti-Zionist argument (that seems to be the fuel for current and historic global anti-semitism), I came across this interesting documentary on a book called the Protocols of the Elders of Zion..

June 13, 2015 at 9:27 am#799458
NickHassan
Participant
Hi davidl,
The god of this world controls mankind and will bring about what is written.
In the plan of God it is written that Jerusalem will be surrounded by armies so that God can show His power and rescue them.
June 13, 2015 at 9:39 am#799460
kerwin
Participant
Nick,
Hi KW,
But you cannot claim any bloodline.
You adopted yourself into their covenant?
What do you think the words “I am a Gentile mean? I am not a son of Abraham as of the flesh though I am one as of faith. I am a son of Noah as of the flesh.
Neither the covenant God made with Abraham and his descendants nor the one he made with Hebrew people apply to me. Instead the letter wrote from Jerusalem to the Gentiles apply to me as does righteousness of the Law of which those instructions are part. It is my body that is circumcised but my heart.
June 13, 2015 at 9:45 am#799462
NickHassan
Participant
Hi KW,
You made your own covenant with God?
Was God involved?
June 13, 2015 at 10:16 am#799468
kerwin
Participant
Nick,
You hold to non-biblical traditions and I am merely attempting to point out how they differ from Scripture.
Who is the letter that is written in response to Paul’s visit addressed to? (Acts 15:23-29)
How are they instructed in that letter?
Does that letter agree with what you have been taught?
Are you going to avoid addressing these issues that challenge the traditions you have been taught?
June 13, 2015 at 12:37 pm#799486
NickHassan
Participant
Hi KW,
To the reborn gentiles in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia.

That they do not need to be circumcised but are to refrain
from blood and
from the meat of strangled animals and
from food offered to idols and
from fornication.

No problem so far.
So they are not advised to become Jews but you did?

June 13, 2015 at 3:09 pm#799495
kerwin
Participant
Nick,
I said nothing different than that letter does.
My point is that the letter is not written to the Jews but only to the Gentiles.
In short it does not forbid the circumcision of Jews.
June 13, 2015 at 3:17 pm#799496
kerwin
Participant
Nick,
We are told Jewish Christians are Zealous for the Law in Acts 18:21-24
These Jewish Christians have heard that Paul was teaching Jews, not Gentiles, to forsake the law by not being circumcised.
The letter that told Gentile Christians they ought not to get circumcised had already been written.
James told Paul, a Jew, to purify himself in order to show the Christian Jews he was still keeping the Law.
Paul did not object to James words but proceeded to do as he was advised.
Do you agree with my assessment of the words of Acts 18:21-24?
June 13, 2015 at 3:34 pm#799497
NickHassan
Participant
Hi KW,
Why should circumcision be forbidden?
But we are told of the new circumcision in Colossians.

Acts 18 does not say what you find there.

The Jewish converts had to be shown that the NT was in accord with the OT and no offense was given lest they be frightened off.
Paul became as a Jew to convert Jews.

But nowhere is it advised for gentile converts to reject Christ and become Jews.

June 13, 2015 at 4:50 pm#799500
NickHassan
Participant
Hi KW,
Is it the best approach to see what is not forbidden
and do that?
June 13, 2015 at 10:44 pm#799508
Proclaimer
Participant
Thanks for the share @DavidL, a very interesting video and very challenging and worth praying about.
It took me three attempts to watch this and I fell asleep through parts of it, but in all, it I could tell this was a thorough study. I have watched other videos from the main teacher in this video and he always does a thorough job from what I can tell.
There were some parts that they didn’t mention that was in support of modern day Israel though (unless I was asleep) and would like to bring these up in another post in this discussion. But it is a bit late to do that now. If I bring them up, it doesn’t mean I am against the video, but is just part of my search on this subject and part of the testing process..

June 14, 2015 at 4:49 am#799515
AndrewAD
Participant
Kerwin,do you claim to be Jewish or maybe just “messianic”? If so then do you adhere to the Saturday sabbath and keeping the Jewish feasts? are these required to be saved? and also physical circumcision? is this a must to be saved too?
There are so many wacky groups out here nowadays and I’m wondering if you’ve actually succumbed to all this non-Christian nonsense.
June 15, 2015 at 7:23 am#799558
DavidL
Participant
The Six Day War – this should keep you awake…

June 15, 2015 at 12:04 pm#799596
Proclaimer
Participant
While I am challenging myself on this subject, the following video says to me that something is fundamentally wrong with anti-semitism. Hatred toward the Jews is so prolific that even ISIS cannot compete it seems.
June 15, 2015 at 12:21 pm#799598
kerwin
Participant
AndrewAd,
Kerwin,do you claim to be Jewish or maybe just “messianic”? If so then do you adhere to the Saturday sabbath and keeping the Jewish feasts? are these required to be saved? and also physical circumcision? is this a must to be saved too?
There are so many wacky groups out here nowadays and I’m wondering if you’ve actually succumbed to all this non-Christian nonsense.
The Sabbath was made for the Hebrew people. I cannot say whether Paul kept it or not but I can say he sanctified himself to prove he was a Law observing Jew and keeping the Sabbath is what a Law observing Jew does. I though am a Gentile and my people were not Sabbath to keep. We only are given to keep the righteousness of the Law and so reveal that our heart is circumcised.
Those that call themselves Christians today follow Anti-Christian teachings.
Why are so many today teaching those things that Paul was falsely accused of teaching and was he strove to prove he was not teaching by instead providing evidence he still adhered to the Law?
It was the government of the Roman Empire that decreed Christians and Jews were separate religion and not God. Why do Christians today still obey that decree?
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