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Quote (david @ April 14 2008,15:59) Quote I know as a JW you are looking forward to God punishing people who do not believe as you, so I am already aware of the answer you want. You know even less than I imagined.
Then what happens to those who do not accept Jesus in JW theology?I'm not sure what your question has to do with my response. You said:
Quote I know as a JW you are looking forward to God punishing people who do not believe as you I look forward to no such thing.
Quote (david @ April 14 2008,19:53) I'm not sure what your question has to do with my response. You said: Quote I know as a JW you are looking forward to God punishing people who do not believe as you I look forward to no such thing.
Do you look forward to what you think is promised in the bible?Quote Should I use drugs? What does the bible say about that? Should I watch Ultimate Fighting, what does the bible say about that? For the ultimate fighting, it says: “Anyone loving violence my soul certainly hates.” It says a lot of things, but that's the only scripture I currently remember.
For the drugs, there are of course many principles that apply. I could quote them, but I know you know they exist.Quote Zoroaster is dead, I won't be asking him anything. But I can contemplate something and seek guidance from God through prayer and reflection. I don't have to find some biblical reference to figure it out. In fact, more people have justified wrong actions by taking the bible literally in some places. My mistake, i meant mazda. Keep confusing the two. Sorry. And when you seek this reflection and guidance, how are you answered?
Quote No, it still doesn't work because I can respond specifically to you, while the bible cannot. So how do you know what God would have you do in life? An example: MATTHEW 28:19-20
“Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded YOU. And, look! I am with YOU all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.””If what you know about this mazda is important, I would think you'd want to share it. Yet I didn't even know you had this mazda belief until a few days ago.
Quote But we're supposed to instead turn to a book that paints God in a brutal light? No thanks.
Would you consider yourself a brutal being? To the cow that is watching you eat his friend, there is not question–you are brutal. Oh, no, we have every right to eat cows because we know more than they do, they're animals.
What you see as “brutal” on God's account is his right as creator of all.Quote I guess you didn't understand. Both Christianity and Islam have grown to epic proportions due to political power. Constantine made Christianity the “state religion” and it took off from there. The RCC pushed their doctrine on the masses and did not allow them to have access to bibles but to belief what they said instead. I don't think you understand. Jehovah's witnesses who do not get involved in politics (don't vote, don't hold office, etc) are preaching in hundreds of countries, in hundreds of languages, all the same message, unitedly.
I'm saying God's and his messianic kingdom is being preached throughout the world. (I'm not talking about catholics) Your god remains “almost forgotten” and I don't see that changing given the fact that he apparently doesn't want to be known.Quote So who has it right in Christianity David? When you can tell me that and show me that what you say is true, we can discuss from there. Until then, you are certainly making your own creed.
Even if I am making my own creed, what does the gathas say? It is fine to “let each person choose his creed,” right?
Despite it saying this, I asked: “why are you so concerned about what others believe and why the desire to show their creeds wrong? to which you say: Because rigid fundamentalism is harmful to humanity IMHO
So, is the gathas wrong on this? as I too know it is?Quote Show me your version of truth, and there will be 5 other Christians on here who disagree with you. Which one of you will have truth?
No denying that Satan is good at what he does. But the fact that many must be wrong because of their conflicting teachings does not necessitate that all must be wrong, does it?Quote there is no evidence for the existence of Abraham, or any of the Patriarchs; ditto for Moses and the Exodus
In the past, people pointed to this or that, as proof that th e Bible is wrong, no proof of david, or whatever. Then, proof. True, no proof of these things yet, but over and over and over arhaelogy has proven the Bible correct, and surprised people.Quote (kejonn @ April 15 2008,12:16) Quote (david @ April 14 2008,15:27) Quote each person should choose their own creed. –kejonn (and the gathas)
Why say this and then attack that same creed?
Because some creeds would have others living in fear and believing God is a merciless killer.
So, just to get this straight, you, and the gathas are saying that “each person should choose their own creed.”
But essentially, if you choose the creed I don't like, I'm going to attack it.It might as well say “each person should choose their own creed, but it better be the right one.”
Quote Zoroastrianism was never about fear. Thus, it could not be used as a tool. It will never be popular because I'm not saying it should be popular. True Christianity is not popular. Jesus, nor his first disciples weren't popular. JW's too, for example, not popular.
But, the message, while not being a popular one, is known.
MATTHEW 24:14
“And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.”And I'm saying that if mazda created mankind, wouldn't he have some connection with mankind. Wouldn't he want us to know him? Wouldn't he want to tell us how to live lives that benefit ourself? Since he's the creator, I'd think he'd know the answers to some things like this and he'd want to share. But maybe he's not the sharing type.
Quote It will never be popular because people cannot grasp a religion that is not about promises of heaven or threats of hell. I think you're wrong. I don't expect to go to heaven, and I know the hell (hades) of the Bible isn't a place of firey torment. Yes, as predicting, false teachings and false stories spread.
Quote Because He created it for us. Let me ask you, do you have children? When they get past a certain age, do you constantly interfere in their life, or do you let them live it as responsible adults? Will your god let us destroy ourself? Does he care about people? Will he step in, ever?
Quote Stu has been asking on here, but why is homosexuality wrong? I don't like it, but that's my preference. Homosexuality is observed in the animal world. How do you explain that? Satan after the animals too?
They also walk around naked. They do a lot of things. They're like animals or something!
Quote You said the bible didn't have dates, but you can get dates from history. Neither of these have Jesus being born 1 BCE or 1 CE.
Explain. So you're saying history doesn't have Jesus being born 1 bce or 1 ce? I'm still not sure what you're saying.Quote Have you ever considered that this is a forced prophecy?
Yes, I have considered that a few times.Quote (david @ April 14 2008,20:16) Quote Should I use drugs? What does the bible say about that? Should I watch Ultimate Fighting, what does the bible say about that? For the ultimate fighting, it says: “Anyone loving violence my soul certainly hates.” It says a lot of things, but that's the only scripture I currently remember.
For the drugs, there are of course many principles that apply. I could quote them, but I know you know they exist.
Surely? References please, not conjecture.Quote Quote Zoroaster is dead, I won't be asking him anything. But I can contemplate something and seek guidance from God through prayer and reflection. I don't have to find some biblical reference to figure it out. In fact, more people have justified wrong actions by taking the bible literally in some places. My mistake, i meant mazda. Keep confusing the two. Sorry. And when you seek this reflection and guidance, how are you answered?
In the same way anyone who feels they are inspired is answered: through urgings. If I start hearing voices, I'll seek professional help.
Ever heard of a “gut feeling”?
Quote Quote No, it still doesn't work because I can respond specifically to you, while the bible cannot. So how do you know what God would have you do in life? An example: MATTHEW 28:19-20
“Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded YOU. And, look! I am with YOU all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.””If what you know about this mazda is important, I would think you'd want to share it. Yet I didn't even know you had this mazda belief until a few days ago.
Quite so. It is still new to me, but I am learning. It would be like asking a new Christian to answer questions about the bible. I don't have alot of answers right now.
Quote Quote But we're supposed to instead turn to a book that paints God in a brutal light? No thanks.
Would you consider yourself a brutal being? To the cow that is watching you eat his friend, there is not question–you are brutal. Oh, no, we have every right to eat cows because we know more than they do, they're animals.I don't eat a hamburger in front of a cow. Are you saying you are a vegan?
Quote What you see as “brutal” on God's account is his right as creator of all.
So killing infants is fine and dandy as long as Yahweh (Jehovah) sanctions it? Twisted!Quote Quote I guess you didn't understand. Both Christianity and Islam have grown to epic proportions due to political power. Constantine made Christianity the “state religion” and it took off from there. The RCC pushed their doctrine on the masses and did not allow them to have access to bibles but to belief what they said instead. I don't think you understand. Jehovah's witnesses who do not get involved in politics (don't vote, don't hold office, etc) are preaching in hundreds of countries, in hundreds of languages, all the same message, unitedly.
Yet there were no JWs before the 1800s or so correct? Where were they before then?
Quote I'm saying God's and his messianic kingdom is being preached throughout the world. (I'm not talking about catholics) Your god remains “almost forgotten” and I don't see that changing given the fact that he apparently doesn't want to be known.
*sigh*. You still have no clue. The availability of the bible does not equate to the validity of Yahweh. Is Yahweh printing bibles in heaven?Quote Quote So who has it right in Christianity David? When you can tell me that and show me that what you say is true, we can discuss from there. Until then, you are certainly making your own creed.
Even if I am making my own creed, what does the gathas say? It is fine to “let each person choose his creed,” right?
Despite it saying this, I asked: “why are you so concerned about what others believe and why the desire to show their creeds wrong? to which you say: Because rigid fundamentalism is harmful to humanity IMHO
So, is the gathas wrong on this? as I too know it is?
Huh? As you know it is? Why is what you know any more valid than what Joe Blow knows?Rigid fundamentalism has resulted in many deaths. Should that be overlooked?
Quote Quote Show me your version of truth, and there will be 5 other Christians on here who disagree with you. Which one of you will have truth?
No denying that Satan is good at what he does. But the fact that many must be wrong because of their conflicting teachings does not necessitate that all must be wrong, does it?
Its easy to blame all the ills in life to the man in the red suit, but such a fantasy doesn't cut it with sensible people. There is no “satan”. That character is a myth, made up to put fear into those who would disbelieve.Quote Quote there is no evidence for the existence of Abraham, or any of the Patriarchs; ditto for Moses and the Exodus
In the past, people pointed to this or that, as proof that th e Bible is wrong, no proof of david, or whatever. Then, proof. True, no proof of these things yet, but over and over and over arhaelogy has proven the Bible correct, and surprised people.
Read the book. Newer discoveries are laying the OT to waste.Quote (david @ April 14 2008,20:18) Quote (kejonn @ April 15 2008,12:16) Quote (david @ April 14 2008,15:27) Quote each person should choose their own creed. –kejonn (and the gathas)
Why say this and then attack that same creed?
Because some creeds would have others living in fear and believing God is a merciless killer.
So, just to get this straight, you, and the gathas are saying that “each person should choose their own creed.”
But essentially, if you choose the creed I don't like, I'm going to attack it.It might as well say “each person should choose their own creed, but it better be the right one.”
Diversion.Quote (david @ April 14 2008,20:22) Quote Zoroastrianism was never about fear. Thus, it could not be used as a tool. It will never be popular because I'm not saying it should be popular. True Christianity is not popular. Jesus, nor his first disciples weren't popular. JW's too, for example, not popular.
But, the message, while not being a popular one, is known.
MATTHEW 24:14
“And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.”And I'm saying that if mazda created mankind, wouldn't he have some connection with mankind. Wouldn't he want us to know him? Wouldn't he want to tell us how to live lives that benefit ourself? Since he's the creator, I'd think he'd know the answers to some things like this and he'd want to share. But maybe he's not the sharing type.
So it is known? Bill Gates is known. George W. Bush is known. Osama Bin Laden is known. Alot of things are known. This means nothing beyond you looking for a reason to suspect something that doesn't gel with Abrahamic faith.Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 14 2008,20:47) Hi KJ,
Funny thing about those who follow the god of this world.
They lose sight of him.
Who, satan or Yahweh? Seems 2/3 or more of the world does not know either…Quote (david @ April 14 2008,20:24) Quote It will never be popular because people cannot grasp a religion that is not about promises of heaven or threats of hell. I think you're wrong. I don't expect to go to heaven, and I know the hell (hades) of the Bible isn't a place of firey torment. Yes, as predicting, false teachings and false stories spread.
So what are you looking forward to then?Quote (kejonn @ April 15 2008,13:48) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 14 2008,20:47) Hi KJ,
Funny thing about those who follow the god of this world.
They lose sight of him.
Who, satan or Yahweh? Seems 2/3 or more of the world does not know either…
Hi KJ,
More than that.
Far more.Quote (david @ April 14 2008,20:32) Quote Because He created it for us. Let me ask you, do you have children? When they get past a certain age, do you constantly interfere in their life, or do you let them live it as responsible adults? Will your god let us destroy ourself? Does he care about people? Will he step in, ever?
Seems Yahweh already destroyed all flesh except what would fit on a big boat, so we can't do much worse, can we?Quote Quote Stu has been asking on here, but why is homosexuality wrong? I don't like it, but that's my preference. Homosexuality is observed in the animal world. How do you explain that? Satan after the animals too?
They also walk around naked. They do a lot of things. They're like animals or something!
That was an evasive answer. What's wrong with homosexuality if two consenting adults choose it? What if two heterosexual adults choose to be chaste?Quote Quote You said the bible didn't have dates, but you can get dates from history. Neither of these have Jesus being born 1 BCE or 1 CE.
Explain. So you're saying history doesn't have Jesus being born 1 bce or 1 ce? I'm still not sure what you're saying.
Look back. Historically, the events related to Jesus' birth in Matthew and Luke do not have him being born in 1 BCE or 1 CE.Quote Quote Have you ever considered that this is a forced prophecy?
Yes, I have considered that a few times.
Makes sense too.Quote Surely? References please, not conjecture. “What does the bible say about that? Should I watch Ultimate Fighting.”–kejonn
PSALM 11:5
“Jehovah himself examines the righteous one as well as the wicked one, And anyone loving violence His soul certainly hates.”(would you consider “ultimate fighting” violence? Would you entertain yourself by violence?)
The rest of these scriptures don't consider violence but are still good principles on how we choose to entertain ourselves.
ROMANS 12:9
“Let [YOUR] love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is wicked, cling to what is good.”PSALM 97:10
“O YOU lovers of Jehovah, hate what is bad. He is guarding the souls of his loyal ones; Out of the hand of the wicked ones he delivers them.”PHILIPPIANS 4:8
“Finally, brothers, whatever things are true, whatever things are of serious concern, whatever things are righteous, whatever things are chaste, whatever things are lovable, whatever things are well spoken of, whatever virtue there is and whatever praiseworthy thing there is, continue considering these things.”EPHESIANS 5:3
“Let fornication and uncleanness of every sort or greediness not even be mentioned among YOU, just as it befits holy people;”EPHESIANS 5:10-12
“Keep on making sure of what is acceptable to the Lord; and quit sharing with [them] in the unfruitful works that belong to the darkness, but, rather, even be reproving [them], for the things that take place in secret by them it is shameful even to relate.”EZEKIEL 9:4
“And Jehovah went on to say to him: “Pass through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and you must put a mark on the foreheads of the men that are sighing and groaning over all the detestable things that are being done in the midst of it.””Anyway, while the Bible of course doesn't touch on every subject, such as “ultimate fighting” there are bible principles that should help us.
DRUGS. Some principles:
2 Cor. 7:1: “Since we have these promises [of having Jehovah as our God and our Father], beloved ones, let us cleanse ourselves of every defilement of flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in God’s fear.”
(But can we expect to have God’s approval if we deliberately do things that defile our bodies?)Luke 10:25-27: “‘By doing what shall I inherit everlasting life?’ . . . ‘“You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole strength and with your whole mind,” and, “your neighbor as yourself.”’”
(Is a person really loving God with his whole soul and his whole mind if he makes a practice of things that needlessly shorten his life and cause his mind to be blurred? Is he showing love for his neighbor if he steals from
others to support his drug habit?)Titus 2:11, 12: “The undeserved kindness of God which brings salvation to all sorts of men has been manifested, instructing us to repudiate ungodliness and worldly desires and to live with soundness of mind [“be self-restrained,” JB; ‘to live self-controlled lives,’ TEV] and righteousness and godly devotion amid this present system of things.” (Is the use of drugs that impair one’s judgment or that cause a person to lose self-control in harmony with that counsel?)
Gal. 5:19-21: “Now the works of the flesh are manifest, and they are . . . practice of spiritism, . . . revelries, and things like these. . . . Those who practice such things will not inherit God’s kingdom.” (The literal meaning of the Greek word phar·ma·ki′a, here rendered “practice of spiritism,” is “druggery.” An Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, by W. E. Vine, in commenting on this Greek word, says: “In sorcery, the use of drugs, whether simple or potent, was generally accompanied by incantations and appeals to occult powers, with the provision of various charms, amulets, etc., professedly designed to keep the applicant or patient from the attention and power of demons, but actually to impress the applicant with the mysterious resources and powers of the sorcerer.” [London, 1940, Vol. IV, pp. 51, 52] Similarly today, many who use drugs are involved in spiritistic practices or associate with those who are, because a blank mind or one that experiences hallucinations is easy prey to the demons. Compare Luke 11:24-26.)
Titus 3:1: “Be in subjection and be obedient to governments and authorities as rulers.”
(In many locations, possession or use of certain drugs is a violation of the law.)So, God, in his wisdom, included principles that could help us. One who looked at the principles above would see the wisdom of staying away from drugs, and would benefit.
Quote Diversion. I don't see how. You don't seem to agree with the idea behind that 'scripture' or whatever the verses in the gathas are called.
Quote if mazda created mankind, wouldn't he have some connection with mankind. Wouldn't he want us to know him? Wouldn't he want to tell us how to live lives that benefit ourself? Since he's the creator, I'd think he'd know the answers to some things like this and he'd want to share. But maybe he's not the sharing type. Any response?
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