You cannot have 200% of anything!

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 30 2010,09:28)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 30 2010,06:54)

Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 29 2010,12:31)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 30 2010,04:00)

Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 29 2010,11:51)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 30 2010,02:41)

Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 29 2010,03:34)

Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 29 2010,13:30)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 29 2010,09:38)

Yes!

His Spirit is God because he is God!

Hi WJ,

That's what I have been telling you all along! …HolySpirit is “GOD: The Father” of Jesus Christ! (Click Here)

2Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God(HolySpirit) was in Christ,
reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them;
and hath committed unto us “The Word” of reconciliation.

Eph.4:4-6 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord,
one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who
is above all, and through all, and in you all.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Hi WJ,

Is this hard for you to grasp?

God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Right!

And Jesus is in “me” therfore Jesus is God!

Hi WJ,

Is Jesus' Father in you too?
I thought Jesus' father was God,
did something happen to change things?

That is my point. That the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit is in me. Yet there is only “One Spirit” that we are made to drink from.

You do get this don't you?

Hi WJ,

The “HolySpirit” is the Father, and that is the spirit Jesus had in him; you do know that don't you?

The Spirit is Jesus and Jesus is in the Father and Jesus who is God is in us. 2 Cor 13:5

You do understand this don't you?

Hi WJ,

Is Jesus' father “Spirit”?

Bump for WJ

January 1, 2011 at 11:40 pm#230985

942767

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 31 2010,09:56)

Quote (942767 @ Dec. 30 2010,17:01)

When the doctrine of Christ dwells within us then Christ Jesus dwells within us…

Marty

This is what you call “Eisegesis”. 2 Cor 13:5 in no way implies it is merely the “Gospel of Jesus” in us.

It clearly says to examine yourself and see if Jesus Christ is in you, if not then you are a reprobate pure and simple!

Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that “Jesus Christ is in you“, except ye be reprobates? 2 Cor 13:5

This agrees with Jesus own words when he said…

Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and “make our abode with him“. John 14:23

So does that mean that the Father does not live in us as well, but only the Gospel of God?

Our Bodies are the Temple of God Marty.

Hi WJ:

God our Father dwells within us by His Spirit as our helper.

Quote

Romans 8:11But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

And so that explains how the Father dwells within us, and so how does Jesus according to your understanding dwell within us.

I believe if I hear you correctly, according to you, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit dwell within us.

Jesus said in John 6 “the Words that I speak to you are spirit and they are life.”

2 John 1 states if we abide in the doctrine of Christ we have both the Father and the Son. This is two, not three.

Jesus said that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, and prayed that we would be one with them.

WJ, you say “Eisegesis”, I say “common sense”.

Love in Christ,
Marty

January 2, 2011 at 12:05 am#230986

Participant

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 01 2011,17:40)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 31 2010,09:56)

Quote (942767 @ Dec. 30 2010,17:01)

When the doctrine of Christ dwells within us then Christ Jesus dwells within us…

Marty

This is what you call “Eisegesis”. 2 Cor 13:5 in no way implies it is merely the “Gospel of Jesus” in us.

It clearly says to examine yourself and see if Jesus Christ is in you, if not then you are a reprobate pure and simple!

Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that “Jesus Christ is in you“, except ye be reprobates? 2 Cor 13:5

This agrees with Jesus own words when he said…

Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and “make our abode with him“. John 14:23

So does that mean that the Father does not live in us as well, but only the Gospel of God?

Our Bodies are the Temple of God Marty.

Hi WJ:

God our Father dwells within us by His Spirit as our helper.

Quote

Romans 8:11But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

And so that explains how the Father dwells within us, and so how does Jesus according to your understanding dwell within us.

I believe if I hear you correctly, according to you, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit dwell within us.

Jesus said in John 6 “the Words that I speak to you are spirit and they are life.”

2 John 1 states if we abide in the doctrine of Christ we have both the Father and the Son. This is two, not three.

Jesus said that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, and prayed that we would be one with them.

WJ, you say “Eisegesis”, I say “common sense”.

Love in Christ,
Marty

Marty

If you want to understand an infinite God with “common sense” then that is your right.

So the “Counselor” that Jesus and the Father sent doesn't exist in your mind?

And Mattew 28:19 is a corrupted text?

You have to take all scripture in account Marty which leaves you with no other explanation except the three are One God that dwells in us.

We have been over this before. Hope you had a good Christmas and a Happy New Year.

January 2, 2011 at 12:08 am#230987

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 31 2010,02:27)

Hi WJ,

Is Jesus' father “Spirit”?

Give it a rest! I am not going around in circles with you.

I hope you had a Merry Christmas and a Happy New year also!

January 2, 2011 at 2:04 am#230997

942767

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 02 2011,10:05)

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 01 2011,17:40)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 31 2010,09:56)

Quote (942767 @ Dec. 30 2010,17:01)

When the doctrine of Christ dwells within us then Christ Jesus dwells within us…

Marty

This is what you call “Eisegesis”. 2 Cor 13:5 in no way implies it is merely the “Gospel of Jesus” in us.

It clearly says to examine yourself and see if Jesus Christ is in you, if not then you are a reprobate pure and simple!

Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that “Jesus Christ is in you“, except ye be reprobates? 2 Cor 13:5

This agrees with Jesus own words when he said…

Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and “make our abode with him“. John 14:23

So does that mean that the Father does not live in us as well, but only the Gospel of God?

Our Bodies are the Temple of God Marty.

Hi WJ:

God our Father dwells within us by His Spirit as our helper.

Quote

Romans 8:11But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

And so that explains how the Father dwells within us, and so how does Jesus according to your understanding dwell within us.

I believe if I hear you correctly, according to you, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit dwell within us.

Jesus said in John 6 “the Words that I speak to you are spirit and they are life.”

2 John 1 states if we abide in the doctrine of Christ we have both the Father and the Son. This is two, not three.

Jesus said that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, and prayed that we would be one with them.

WJ, you say “Eisegesis”, I say “common sense”.

Love in Christ,
Marty

Marty

If you want to understand an infinite God with “common sense” then that is your right.

So the “Counselor” that Jesus and the Father sent doesn't exist in your mind?

And Mattew 28:19 is a corrupted text?

You have to take all scripture in account Marty which leaves you with no other explanation except the three are One God that dwells in us.

We have been over this before. Hope you had a good Christmas and a Happy New Year.

Hi WJ:

The counselor is God's Holy Spirit. The Spirit of Truth that proceeds from the Father. God dwells within us by His Spirit as our helper.

And this is the way that the YLT has Matthew 28:19-20:

Quote

Matthew 28:19-20 (Young's Literal Translation)

19having gone, then, disciple all the nations, (baptizing them — to the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit,

20teaching them to observe all, whatever I did command you,) and lo, I am with you all the days — till the full end of the age.

Notice that the Tri-une formula for baptizing that you use to justify the Trinity doctrine is in parenthesis.

Also, none of the Apostles baptized anyone in this manner. They baptized in the name of Jesus. Did they disobey the instructions of Jesus? I think not.

What I mean by common sense is that the scriptures are quite clear what is meant when it says that Jesus dwells within us. It is no longer I that liveth but Christ liveth in me or abiding in the doctrine of Christ as 2 John 1 has it. Take these scriptures together and see if you can understand that it is the doctrine of Christ that dwells within us. The spirit of the Son. How are we being conformed into his image, WJ?

He said “Come let us reason together”. Common sense in understanding the scriptures. As you said, it doesn't take a Rocket Scientist.

Love in Christ,
Marty

January 2, 2011 at 10:01 am#231021

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 02 2011,10:08)

Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 31 2010,02:27)

Hi WJ,

Is Jesus' father “Spirit”?

Give it a rest! I am not going around in circles with you.

I hope you had a Merry Christmas and a Happy New year also!

Hi Kieth,

Jesus' Father is the one spirit, is he not? (Eph.4:4-6)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

January 4, 2011 at 7:49 pm#231856

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 31 2010,12:55)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 31 2010,16:56)

Quote (942767 @ Dec. 30 2010,17:01)

When the doctrine of Christ dwells within us then Christ Jesus dwells within us…

Marty

This is what you call “Eisegesis”. 2 Cor 13:5 in no way implies it is merely the “Gospel of Jesus” in us.

It clearly says to examine yourself and see if Jesus Christ is in you, if not then you are a reprobate pure and simple!

Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that “Jesus Christ is in you“, except ye be reprobates? 2 Cor 13:5

This agrees with Jesus own words when he said…

Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and “make our abode with him“. John 14:23

So does that mean that the Father does not live in us as well, but only the Gospel of God?

Our Bodies are the Temple of God Marty.

I think Marty is right you are misunderstanding Christ words

it is men ego thats like to elevate themselves to a higher level instead of humble themselves ,
you are interpreting Christ words in your advantage(men)

Pierre

Hi Pierre,

Of a truth the ego does try to elevate one above another.
With some here (no names) it is a common practice!

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

January 11, 2011 at 7:14 pm#232737

Participant

Quote (francis @ Dec. 19 2010,04:22)

Jesus was both 100% God and 100% human.

Hi Francis,

If your mom is Portuguese and your dad is Lithuanian, you are NOT 100% Portuguese and 100% Lithuanian?
What you are proposing here, mathematically, is a 200% Jesus? (Matthew 1:18 / Matthew 1:20 / Luke 1:35)
You could play games with words, denying the 200% Jesus
you assert, but that would be all you would be doing.

The systems of religion and traditions of men communicate…
distortions of truth, confusion of mind, and distractions of spirit.

Col.2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy
and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the
rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Quote (francis @ Dec. 19 2010,04:22)

the human [ [ [ part ] ] ] of Jesus

Quote (francis @ Dec. 21 2010,02:34)

the Divine [ [ [ part ] ] ] of Jesus

Do NOT the sum of the parts make up 100% of the whole? …Do you deny what Scripture says?

Jesus lineage explained

“Son of Man”: 25%; Mary's mother's lineage was of the tribe of Levi. (Luke 1:5, 1:36)
“Son of Man”: 25%: Mary's father's lineage was (Judah) through Nathan(son of David). (Luke 3:23-31)
“Son of God”: 50%: Jesus' Father was the “HolySpirit”; NOT Joseph! (Mathew 1:18 / Mathew 1:20 / Luke 1:35)

Birth: Jesus was 50% HolySpirit(God)(Matt.1:18 / Matt.1:20 / Luke 1:35), 25% Levite(Priest) and 25% Judah(King)!
Baptism by John the baptizer, Jesus was filled with the HolySpirit(God) beyond measure! (John 3:34 / John 1:14)

Here is why Jesus is called both the “Son of Man” and the “Son of God”…

Mother Father
Mary HolySpirit
50% 50%
\ /
\ /
Jesus
/ \
/ \
/ \
Son of Man Son of God
(Mark 6:3) (Luke 1:35)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

January 12, 2011 at 7:46 pm#232826

Participant

Ed J…

I am completely baffled as to why you are persisting in this argument of yours after I explained everything in PM with you. I don't have the emails I had sent to you because I did not push the correct “tab” to ensure that a copy would be saved into my “sent items” box.

But fortunately I did save one… and in your responses to me, you did usually quote everything I had said which allowed me to reconstruct what I had sent to you in PM.

Here are some of excerpts of what I had sent to you:

I've already got my plate full debating with Mike, but I don't mind clarifying or amplifying what I was trying to get across with the above quote.

When I used the number 100%, I wasn't using it as a math equation. I was using it to convey the concept that Jesus was FULLY God and FULLY human.

The human flesh part of Jesus was FULLY human. The SPIRIT inhabiting inside of the fleshly body of Jesus was FULLY God.

And since the Spirit and the flesh are two completely different things… there is no conflict to suggest that both can be FULLY something, and yet be different from each other… or be 100% something that is different from each other.

Think of when God inhabited the Tabernacle or the Temple. God INSIDE the Tabernacle/Temple was FULLY God (100% God)… but the Tabernacle/Temple itself was FULLY (100%) a man made structure. The two (God and the temple) were completely different from each other and did not figure into some kind of math equation that added the both together to come to a figure of 200%. The temple was not God… and God was not the temple.

This is not an example of playing word games at all. It was simply never a math problem in the first place. You no more add the Temple and God together to arrive at 200%… than you add Jesus' Spirit and Jesus fleshly body together to arrive at 200%.

In logic, comparing the Spirit and the flesh as if they were somehow sufficiently similar to compare… and comparing God and the Temple as if they were somehow sufficiently similar to compare… commits the category fallacy (note: originally I had said Law of Identity)… or in more popular jargon… it's mixing apples and oranges.

And the following excerpts were sent to you in PM after I received part fo the post which you have just posted in here above mine:

Gee whiz Ed J…

I know what you wrote, and I gave you a very rational, coherent answer. You may disagree with my answer, and that is certainly your privilege, but there is no reason to “SHOUT” at me thru HUGE BOLD LETTERING. I can read and I took your objection seriously and gave an honest answer which took into account everything you said.

And this…

For example, I said that I was not using the number 100% as some kind of math equation. And what do you do? You continue to use it and make the same argument just as if I never said anything at all!!

And this…

The bottom line is that I wasn't using the 100% number in some kind of math equation as you have been using it. So it is completely unfair to create a strawman argument and then knock down the strawman as if you were knocking down my argument because the strawman doesn't represent what I was arguing in the first place.

I would think the above clarification I had sent you in PM would have put things to bed… but apparantely not. Why you are still asking the same questions, is just beyond me. But as I have said up front with you, I've already got my plate full debating with Mike, so i'm not motivated (time wise) to be involved in more than one debate at a time at this juncture.

If there are others in here who are genuinely unsure of what I was trying to say… and you are sincerely and honestly interested in more clarification, then by all means, ask a question, and I will try and stop by in here now and then to answer your questions.

But I was using PM with Ed J because I didn't want to take time away from my debate with Mike.

I apologize for any confusion I might have caused.

Respectfully
Francis

January 12, 2011 at 8:02 pm#232827

Participant

Quote (francis @ Jan. 13 2011,05:46)

Ed J…

If there are others in here who are genuinely unsure of what I was trying to say… and you are sincerely and honestly interested in more clarification, then by all means, ask a question, and I will try and stop by in here now and then to answer your questions.

Respectfully
Francis

Hi Francis,

According to what you believe could it then also be said?…
You believe Jesus was 100% not God and 100% God?
If not why not? is this not the very same logic as…

Quote (francis @ Dec. 19 2010,04:22)

Jesus was both 100% God and 100% human.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

January 12, 2011 at 8:09 pm#232830

Participant

Quote (francis @ Jan. 12 2011,13:46)

Gee whiz Ed J…

Hi Francis

You make a very good point. Some people will not accept an answer unless it is in agreement with them. So they either change the goal post or ask the quesiton in another way and after you answer that and they disagree then they run around beating their chest and saying you never answered the question.

It seems that they never can agree to disagree.

Blessings Keith

January 12, 2011 at 8:21 pm#232832

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 13 2011,06:09)

Quote (francis @ Jan. 12 2011,13:46)

Gee whiz Ed J…

Hi Francis

It seems that they never can agree to disagree.

Blessings Keith

Hi WJ,

Do you agree that “The Truth” can be different for you, than it is for someone else? Or do you disagree?

January 12, 2011 at 8:32 pm#232835

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 12 2011,14:21)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 13 2011,06:09)

Quote (francis @ Jan. 12 2011,13:46)

Gee whiz Ed J…

Hi Francis

It seems that they never can agree to disagree.

Blessings Keith

Hi WJ,

Do you agree that “The Truth” can be different for you, than it is for someone else? Or do you disagree?

I agree, and the same applies to you.

I didn't even see your post while I was working on mine and lo and behold just as I said you changed the question and the goal post after he gave you a solid answer.

Spirit and flesh are two different things Ed and Jesus was both just as you and I are. The difference is the Spirit of Jesus is Fully God.

Blessings WJ

January 12, 2011 at 9:56 pm#232867

Participant

Ed J…

Quote

Do you agree that “The Truth” can be different for you, than it is for someone else? Or do you disagree?

The Law of non-contradiction says that two mutually exclusive claims/truths cannot both be factually and objectively true/correct at the same time.

So while it is true that everyone can claim they have “The Truth”… it is logically impossible for everyone's “Truth” to be objectively correct if one person's “Truth” makes a claim that completely rejects, contradicts, or is mutually exclusive to another person's “Truth”.

The idea that “The Truth” can be different for you and me and thus both are equally valid, is the great folly of Modernism. (I meant to say Post-Modernism. This correction/clarification is being added on Jan 24, 2011)

Respectfully
Francis

January 12, 2011 at 10:07 pm#232872

Participant

Quote (francis @ Jan. 13 2011,07:56)

Ed J…

Quote

Do you agree that “The Truth” can be different for you, than it is for someone else? Or do you disagree?

The Law of non-contradiction says that two mutually exclusive claims/truths cannot both be factually and objectively true/correct at the same time.

Respectfully
Francis

Hi Francis,

So to say to agree to disagree is unfounded and useless; you do agree then right?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

January 12, 2011 at 10:10 pm#232873

Participant

Hi Francis,

Now will you answer the question I posed to you (first post on page)?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

January 12, 2011 at 10:52 pm#232876

Participant

Quote (francis @ Jan. 12 2011,15:56)

Ed J…

Quote

Do you agree that “The Truth” can be different for you, than it is for someone else? Or do you disagree?

The Law of non-contradiction says that two mutually exclusive claims/truths cannot both be factually and objectively true/correct at the same time.

The idea that “The Truth” can be different for you and me and thus both are equally valid, is the great folly of Modernism.

Respectfully
Francis

Francis

I agree. I should have clarified that I will agree to disagree.

You are correct. There is only one truth. Isn't it amazing that Jesus said he is “The way, the truth and the life”. Who could make that claim but God the giver of all life?

Blessings Keith

January 12, 2011 at 11:12 pm#232879

Participant

Ed J

Quote

So to say to agree to disagree is unfounded and useless; you do agree then right?

I never said that to agree to disagree is unfounded or useless… so this sounds like a strawman on your part.

Sometimes people, being the way they are, cannot agree or cannot be persuaded to make a major paradigm shift in their thinking and opinions because they have too much of their personal selves invested in their opinion/truth.

It sometimes happens between civilized people that a stalemate occurs in a discussion/debate… and so both sides, realizing that they won't be able to persuade the other side of their “error”… will shake hands and agree to disagree because they are not interested in fighting.

But the fact remains that to agree to disagree doesn't settle who was “correct” in the first place. “The Truth” is still our there, objectively true and correct in of itself, waiting to be discovered by each of us… regardless if anyone can agree or persuade others of the truth.

Keith touched on that fact. The atheist's truth is that God does not exist. Your truth.. and mine… and Keith's truth is that God does exist. Or if you prefer… atheism vs. theism. Logically, both atheism and theism cannot be equally true or equally valid because both “truths” make mutually exclusive claims.

And yet one is true and the other is not.

I don't know how to say it any more plainly. I shouldn't have to clarify my position on this anymore.

Respectfully
Francis

January 12, 2011 at 11:26 pm#232880