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Pierre,
Please keep in the context of 1 Peter 2. Is Christ the Stone mentioned in that chapter or the message. If you think both then show me the wording IN THAT CHAPTER where both are mentioned, not elsewhere. We have to look at the context in which it was written.
ThanksQuote (Lightenup @ Nov. 15 2013,03:07) Pierre,
Please keep in the context of 1 Peter 2. Is Christ the Stone mentioned in that chapter or the message. If you think both then show me the wording IN THAT CHAPTER where both are mentioned, not elsewhere. We have to look at the context in which it was written.
Thanks
kathyi get back on that one ,there is some thing in my mind that i have to investigate ;in scriptures ,
kATHY
Ps 119:1 Blessed are they whose ways are blameless,
who walk according to the law of the LORD.
Ps 119:2 Blessed are they who keep his statutes
and seek him with all their heart.
Ps 119:3 They do nothing wrong;
they walk in his ways.
Ps 119:4 You have laid down precepts
that are to be fully obeyed.
Ps 119:5 Oh, that my ways were steadfast
in obeying your decrees!
Ps 119:6 Then I would not be put to shame
when I consider all your commands.
Ps 119:7 I will praise you with an upright heart
as I learn your righteous laws.
Ps 119:8 I will obey your decrees;1Pe 2:8 and,
“A stone that causes men to stumble
and a rock that makes them fall.”They stumble because they disobey the message—
the stone is Christ that was send by God to make all disobedient people to stumble on because of what is in their hearts,
Pierre,
Thank you for your answer. Yes, Christ is the stone and all three of those OT passages refer to this stone as Peter has pointed out. The message about Christ is one truth and we must believe in that specific message about Christ otherwise we stumble. Would you agree with that?Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 17 2013,00:09) Pierre,
Thank you for your answer. Yes, Christ is the stone and all three of those OT passages refer to this stone as Peter has pointed out. The message about Christ is one truth and we must believe in that specific message about Christ otherwise we stumble. Would you agree with that?
Kathyit is not enough to believe ,we have to live it ,the message as to be believe and act upon it,if not we have failed/stumbled
No Pierre, it is not enough to believe and act.
Everyone that has heard about Christ believes something about Him and acts accordingly. Many people stumble over their wrong beliefs about Him. The Pharisees believed in the Messiah but didn't think that Jesus was/is Him, they stumbled over the message which they believed about the Messiah. Many Jews today still believe in the Messiah but do not identify Jesus as the Messiah. They believe and act on that belief and they are actually stumbling over the stone because of their beliefs and actions. They can love God and others and believe in the Messiah yet stumble over the stone which is Jesus.
Gal 1:6
6I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; 7which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. 8But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! 9As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!Do you believe that Peter identifies Jehovah of hosts from Isaiah 8 as Jesus?
Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 17 2013,08:14) No Pierre, it is not enough to believe and act. Everyone that has heard about Christ believes something about Him and acts accordingly. Many people stumble over their wrong beliefs about Him. The Pharisees believed in the Messiah but didn't think that Jesus was/is Him, they stumbled over the message which they believed about the Messiah. Many Jews today still believe in the Messiah but do not identify Jesus as the Messiah. They believe and act on that belief and they are actually stumbling over the stone because of their beliefs and actions. They can love God and others and believe in the Messiah yet stumble over the stone which is Jesus.
Gal 1:6
6I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; 7which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. 8But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! 9As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!Do you believe that Peter identifies Jehovah of hosts from Isaiah 8 as Jesus?
Kathyno,it does not say that or even make an elution to it ,
scriptures are very clear that God the father his not the son ,and that the son his not the father of which he his the son of .
father ,means first ,son means came later but could be the first son
Pierre,
I am aware that scriptures are clear that God the Father is not the Son and the Son is not the Father. Scriptures are clear that the stone in Isaiah 8 is Jehovah of hosts whom Jehovah speaks about. The speaker is Jehovah, one person, the stone (Jehovah of hosts) is another…read it yourself. In 1 Peter 2, Peter quotes that passage in Isaiah and identifies the stone, Jehovah of hosts, as Jesus. He is not identifying the Jehovah who is speaking as Jesus but Peter is identifying the one spoken about, Jehovah of hosts, as Jesus.Isaiah 8
11For thus the LORD spoke to me with mighty power and instructed me not to walk in the way of this people, saying,12“You are not to say, ‘It is a conspiracy!’
In regard to all that this people call a conspiracy,
And you are not to fear what they fear or be in dread of it.13“It is the LORD of hosts whom you should regard as holy.
And He shall be your fear,
And He shall be your dread.14“Then He shall become a sanctuary;
But to both the houses of Israel, a stone to strike and a rock to stumble over,
And a snare and a trap for the inhabitants of Jerusalem.15“Many will stumble over them,
Then they will fall and be broken;
They will even be snared and caught.”Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 17 2013,09:56) Pierre,
I am aware that scriptures are clear that God the Father is not the Son and the Son is not the Father. Scriptures are clear that the stone in Isaiah 8 is Jehovah of hosts whom Jehovah speaks about. The speaker is Jehovah, one person, the stone (Jehovah of hosts) is another…read it yourself. In 1 Peter 2, Peter quotes that passage in Isaiah and identifies the stone, Jehovah of hosts, as Jesus. He is not identifying the Jehovah who is speaking as Jesus but Peter is identifying the one spoken about, Jehovah of hosts, as Jesus.Isaiah 8
11For thus the LORD spoke to me with mighty power and instructed me not to walk in the way of this people, saying,12“You are not to say, ‘It is a conspiracy!’
In regard to all that this people call a conspiracy,
And you are not to fear what they fear or be in dread of it.13“It is the LORD of hosts whom you should regard as holy.
And He shall be your fear,
And He shall be your dread.14“Then He shall become a sanctuary;
But to both the houses of Israel, a stone to strike and a rock to stumble over,
And a snare and a trap for the inhabitants of Jerusalem.15“Many will stumble over them,
Then they will fall and be broken;
They will even be snared and caught.”
KathyUnderstand that the stone and the stumbling block ,his send by God the father,so it could be said of both ,
Just as the ambassador speaks in the name of the king ,it is regarded as if the king as spoken, so the king can say yes I SPOKE TO THAT OR THIS ONE,knowing that it was the ambassador that in reality spoked ,
See the ambassador. Was send by the king,And similar Christ the stone and stumbling block was send by God.
Pierre,
If person A (Jehovah) sends person B (Jehovah of hosts), that does not negate the fact that person B is Jehovah of hosts and identified as Jesus Christ by Peter.
That is the point that I am trying to make here.Will someone here please take the Memra School Hebrew course with me? It would be nice to have a partner doing this from Heaven Net.
Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 18 2013,23:24) Pierre,
If person A (Jehovah) sends person B (Jehovah of hosts), that does not negate the fact that person B is Jehovah of hosts and identified as Jesus Christ by Peter.
That is the point that I am trying to make here.
KathyJehovah and Jehovah of host they are both one being ;
some bible translation uses THE LORD OF HOST for Jehovah
so it is like this ;the father that sends the son ;to be on earth THE ROCK ,AND THE CAP STONE to the nation of Israel all this for his father the savior of men ;
in this way they both can claim to be either of the rock and the cap stone
Pierre,
You say:Quote Jehovah and Jehovah of host they are both one being Not in the context of Isaiah 8.
What you are missing is the fact that two persons, each Jehovah, are interdependent of each other and act together as one.
The Father is interdependent with the Son and visa versa.
They both receive the same blessing, the same honor, the same glory, and the same might. That is different than to say they each receive a blessing, an honor, a glory and a might.
Can you tell me what the Father does apart from the Son? He, the Father, created all things through the Son, leads Israel through the Son, redeems Israel through the Son, and shares the blessing, the honor, the glory, and the might for ever and ever with the Son.
Rev 5:13
and every creature that is in the heaven, and in the earth, and under the earth, and the things that are upon the sea, and all things in them, heard I saying, 'To Him who is sitting upon the throne, and to the Lamb, is the blessing, and the honour, and the glory, and the might — to the ages of the ages!'Kathy
Isa 8:13 The LORD Almighty is the one you are to regard as holy,
he is the one you are to fear,
he is the one you are to dread,
Isa 8:14 and he will be a sanctuary;
but for both houses of Israel he will be
a stone that causes men to stumble
and a rock that makes them fall.
And for the people of Jerusalem he will be
a trap and a snare.
Isa 8:15 Many of them will stumble;
they will fall and be broken,
they will be snared and captured.”IT IS JUST AS I TOLD YOU .
Rev 5:12 In a loud voice they sang:
“Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain,
to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength
and honor and glory and praise!”
Rev 5:13 Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, singing:
“To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb
be praise and honor and glory and power,
for ever and ever!”Rev 5:7 He (the Lamb Christ)came and took the scroll from the right hand of him who sat on the throne.
read for yourself scriptures do not agree with you
Pierre,
They do agree with me.
Peter tells us who the one being spoken about in Isaiah 8 is…it is Jesus. In Rev. the Lamb is also Jesus. In each passage, Jesus is being referred to, one as the LORD of hosts and the other as the Lamb who receives the same glory, the same honor, the same blessing, and the same power for ever as the one who sits on the throne.Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 19 2013,05:23) Pierre,
They do agree with me.
Peter tells us who the one being spoken about in Isaiah 8 is…it is Jesus. In Rev. the Lamb is also Jesus. In each passage, Jesus is being referred to, one as the LORD of hosts and the other as the Lamb who receives the same glory, the same honor, the same blessing, and the same power for ever as the one who sits on the throne.
kATHYshow me with the scriptures ;I show you that THE LAMB AND THE ONE SITTING ON THE THRONE ARE FACING EACH OTHER HOW COULD THEY BE THE SAME
Pierre,
I have been telling you there are TWO persons, that is why one faces the other. I am not telling you that both are the same person. Both are Jehovah however. Jehovah is a name for two persons, not just one.Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 19 2013,06:16) Pierre,
I have been telling you there are TWO persons, that is why one faces the other. I am not telling you that both are the same person. Both are Jehovah however. Jehovah is a name for two persons, not just one.
Kathyshow me this in scriptures ,it seems i do not see it
I am aware that scriptures are clear that God the Father is not the Son and the Son is not the Father. Scriptures are clear that the stone in Isaiah 8 is Jehovah of hosts whom Jehovah speaks about. The speaker is Jehovah, one person, the stone (Jehovah of hosts) is another…read it yourself. In 1 Peter 2, Peter quotes that passage in Isaiah and identifies the stone, Jehovah of hosts, as Jesus. He is not identifying the Jehovah who is speaking as Jesus but Peter is identifying the one spoken about, Jehovah of hosts, as Jesus.
Isaiah 8
11For thus the LORD spoke to me(Person A) with mighty power and instructed me not to walk in the way of this people, saying,12“You are not to say, ‘It is a conspiracy!’
In regard to all that this people call a conspiracy,
And you are not to fear what they fear or be in dread of it.13“It is the LORD of hosts(Person b) whom you should regard as holy.
And He(Person b) shall be your fear,
And He(Person b) shall be your dread.14“Then He(Person b) shall become a sanctuary;
But to both the houses of Israel, a stone to strike and a rock to stumble over,
And a snare and a trap for the inhabitants of Jerusalem.Person A is the Father. His name in this passage is The LORD/YHVH
Person B is the Son. His name in this passage is The LORD of hosts/YHVH of hostsRev 5:13
13Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying:“To him who sits on the throne(Person A) and to the Lamb(Person b)
be praise and honor and glory and power,
for ever and ever!”
Person A is the Father. He is indicated in this passage as The One who sits on the throne
Person B is the Son. He is indicated this passage as The LambBoth persons are given the SAME PRAISE, the SAME HONOR, the SAME GLORY, and the SAME POWER for ever and ever.
There is no way that Jesus was a creation. A creation and the creator cannot be given the SAME PRAISE, the SAME HONOR, the SAME GLORY, and the SAME POWER for ever and ever. That would be blasphemous.
Jesus was not a creation. He was not created…He was begotten…the Only Begotten God (John 1:18 NASB); He was the eternal life that was with the Father in the beginning (1 John 1:1-3), through the Only Begotten God all things were made and saved (John 1:3, John 14:6). The Only Begotten God shares the name of His Father which is YHVH (John 17:11).
John 1:18
New American Standard Bible
No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.1 John 1
1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. 2The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. 3We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ.John 1:3
All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.John 14:6
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.John 17:11
And I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, keep them in your name, which you have given me, that they may be one, even as we are one.I can see this, many followers of Christ can see this, I hope someday you can see this Pierre.
Kathy
Quote 13“It is the LORD of hosts(Person b) whom you should regard as holy.
And He(Person b) shall be your fear,
And He(Person b) shall be your dread.Isa 8:13 The LORD Almighty is the one you are to regard as holy,
he is the one you are to fear,
he is the one you are to dread, NIVIsa 8:13 Sanctify the LORD of hosts himself; and let him be your fear, and let him be your dread.KJV
NET ©
You must recognize the authority of the Lord who commands armies. 1 He is the one you must respect; he is the one you must fear. 2
NIV ©
The LORD Almighty is the one you are to regard as holy, he is the one you are to fear, he is the one you are to dread,
NASB ©
“It is the LORD of hosts whom you should regard as holy. And He shall be your fear, And He shall be your dread.
NLT ©
Do not fear anything except the LORD Almighty. He alone is the Holy One. If you fear him, you need fear nothing else.
MSG ©
If you're going to worry, worry about The Holy. Fear GOD-of-the-Angel-Armies.
BBE ©
But let the Lord of armies be holy to you, and go in fear of him, giving honour to him.
NRSV ©
But the LORD of hosts, him you shall regard as holy; let him be your fear, and let him be your dread.
NKJV ©
The LORD of hosts, Him you shall hallow; Let Him be your fear, And let Him be your dread.ECC 12:13 The conclusion, when all has been heard, is: fear God and keep His commandments, because this applies to every person.
1PE 2:17 Honor all people, love the brotherhood, fear God, honor the king.
tell me who else do we have to fear beside God our creator
is their anyone higher SO PERSON “A” AND “B” ARE THE SAME PERSON
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