Worshipping Jesus

Participant

Quote (942767 @ May 15 2009,15:12)

Quote (bodhitharta @ May 15 2009,14:34)

Quote (942767 @ May 15 2009,13:45)

Hi BD:

Jesus earthly ministry was principally, but not exclusively, to the nation of Israel. The gospel was to be preached to the nation of Israel first, and when all that would be saved through him from that nation were saved, the rest rejected him, then the gospel was to go to all nations.

This is what he said:

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Jhn 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have [it] more abundantly.

Jhn 10:11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

Jhn 10:12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.

Jhn 10:13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.

Jhn 10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my [sheep], and am known of mine.

Jhn 10:15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

Jhn 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, [and] one shepherd.

When he was resurrected and before his asscension into heaven to his position as head of the church at the right hand of the Father, he said:

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Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.

Notice he said to teach all nations.

And the following scripture also confirm this:

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Act 1:4 And, being assembled together with [them], commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, [saith he], ye have heard of me.

Act 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

Act 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

Act 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

Act 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Love in Christ,
Marty

He commanded them to not go to the gentiles and the lost sheep of Israel had been spread to all nations. Jesus was never sent to the gentiles:

Was Jesus incorrect when he said that he was sent only to the lost sheep of the House of Israel? Yes or No?

Hi BD:

I have already given you the answer to your question.

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m 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Is Jesus your Lord? Yes or no?

Love in Christ,
Marty

You were wrong and tried to adjust the scriptures according to your own understanding.

Jesus was sent exclusively to the House of Israel, do you believe this yes or no?

Jesus said this not me.

Also to say to the Jew first and then also to the greek doesn't speak to everone else so you have not answered my question at all. Furthermore you have not stated whether you believe Jesus when he stated that “he” was only sent to the lost sheep of Israel

God Almighty is my lord above all as God is the head of Christ.

So the question to you is do you place Christ above God?

May 15, 2009 at 3:36 am#131059

NickHassan

Participant

Quote (bodhitharta @ May 15 2009,15:23)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 15 2009,14:55)

Hi BD,
No he showed Peter that gentiles too are acceptable wbefore he met Cornelius and Paul said the same thing in different words in Athens.
ALL MUST REPENT

That wasn't the point because all men who love and fear God are acceptable the point was who was Jesus sent to.

Hi BD,
So looking at the message of Paul at Athens was wrong to say God wanted ALL TO REPENT because judgement is coming to all after death.

I am not saying God does not make exceptions for the merciful but should we hope for mercy or seek to become sons of God?

May 15, 2009 at 3:51 am#131061

Participant

Hi BD:

You ask:

Quote

Jesus was sent exclusively to the House of Israel, do you believe this yes or no?

No, I do not. The scripture states:

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Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Jhn 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Jhn 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

When he was on earth his ministry was primarily to the Nation of Irael, but no, he was not sent exclusively to the lost sheep of the household of Israel if the intent here is meant to be only the lost sheep of the Nation of Israel. All of us who are in the body of Christ were lost sheep of the household of Israel.

When he made the statement that you are quoting, he was speaking to a Caananite woman, and he said:

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Mat 15:22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, [thou] Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.

Mat 15:23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.

Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Mat 15:25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.

Mat 15:26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast [it] to dogs.

Mat 15:27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.

Mat 15:28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great [is] thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour

Did he help her or not?

And also, he said:

Quote

Jhn 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, [and] one shepherd.

To whom do you suppose he was referring in the above scripture?

Quote

1Cr 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God.

Jesus never claimed to be God, and so no, I don't worship him as God, but I am subjected to God through him, and if you are not subjected to God through him, then you are not subjected to God.

Love in Christ,
Marty

May 15, 2009 at 4:27 am#131062

Participant

Hi BD:

This is from the Quran, speaking about God.

Quote

112:3 He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;
Lam yalid walam yooladu

From the bible:

Quote

Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Jhn 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Jhn 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Love in Christ,
Marty

May 17, 2009 at 6:12 am#131148

Participant

Quote (942767 @ May 15 2009,15:51)

Hi BD:

You ask:

Quote

Jesus was sent exclusively to the House of Israel, do you believe this yes or no?

No, I do not. The scripture states:

Quote

Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Jhn 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Jhn 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

When he made the statement that you are quoting, he was speaking to a Caananite woman, and he said:

Quote

Mat 15:22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, [thou] Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.

Mat 15:23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.

Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Mat 15:25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.

Mat 15:26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast [it] to dogs.

Mat 15:27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.

Mat 15:28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great [is] thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour

Did he help her or not?

And also, he said:

Quote

Jhn 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, [and] one shepherd.

To whom do you suppose he was referring in the above scripture?

Quote

1Cr 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God.

Jesus never claimed to be God, and so no, I don't worship him as God, but I am subjected to God through him, and if you are not subjected to God through him, then you are not subjected to God.

Love in Christ,
Marty

Yes,

He did help her but again he said himself that he was not interested in helping her even comparing it to feeding the dogs what is meant for the children.

Also Jesus says explicitly who he was sent to and he sent out his disciples with the command to not go unto the gentiles.

Do you not believe what Jesus himself said?

My point here is that Jesus was sent to the Israelites as their Messiah and they rejected him. Those who believe in Jesus will not perish because they did believe that he was the messiah. Paul was sent to the gentiles and Muhammad was sent to the Arab speaking peoples with the Quran which is addressed to mankind.

Jesus said in my Fathers house there are many mansions and he also said it is not up to him who shall be on his left or his right

Matthew 20:23 (New International Version)

23Jesus said to them, “You will indeed drink from my cup, but to sit at my right or left is not for me to grant. These places belong to those for whom they have been prepared by my Father.”

John 14

1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

2In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

So we see that God has many mansions and many more places prepared for glory that Jesus himself doesn't grant.

To be subject to God is to be subject to God without qualification. you seem to have your priorities mixed up If you don't have God first in your life you cannot know Jesus.

Jesus says Believe in God and believe in him also and I do.

May 17, 2009 at 10:54 pm#131169

Participant

942767 said:

Quote

Jesus earthly ministry was principally, but not exclusively, to the nation of Israel.

Marty,
You're not correct. Jesus' ministry was exclusive to the house of Israel. After His resurrection he commanded the disciples to preach to all the nations [of Israel]. This is substantiated by the fact that the apostles never preached to Gentiles in the book of Acts.

942767 said:

Quote

Jesus' ministry was exclusively to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Jesus never preached to a Gentile. The Bible never says that Gentiles are members of the body of Christ.

bodhitharta said:

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Paul was sent to the gentiles and Muhammad was sent to the Arab speaking peoples with the Quran which is addressed to mankind.

Bd,
Paul was never sent to Gentiles either. He was sent to the “nations” of Israel.

thinker

May 18, 2009 at 4:31 am#131180

Participant

Quote (thethinker @ May 18 2009,10:54)

942767 said:

Quote

Jesus earthly ministry was principally, but not exclusively, to the nation of Israel.

942767 said:

Quote

Jesus' ministry was exclusively to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Jesus never preached to a Gentile. The Bible never says that Gentiles are members of the body of Christ.

bodhitharta said:

Quote

Paul was sent to the gentiles and Muhammad was sent to the Arab speaking peoples with the Quran which is addressed to mankind.

Bd,
Paul was never sent to Gentiles either. He was sent to the “nations” of Israel.

thinker

Acts 13:45-47 (King James Version)

46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.

Acts 28:27-29 (King James Version)

27For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

28Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.

29And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves.

Acts 9:14-16 (King James Version)

14And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name.

15But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

16For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.

It was the destiny of Paul to preach unto the gentiles

May 18, 2009 at 3:29 pm#131219

Participant

bodhitharts wrote:

Quote

Acts 13:45-47 (King James Version)

47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.

Acts 28:27-29 (King James Version)

28Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.

29And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves.

Acts 9:14-16 (King James Version)

14And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name.

15But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

16For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.

bd,
The word “gentiles” in our English translations is incorrect and is due to translator bias. The Greek “ethnos” should have been translated simply as “nations” and must always refer to the nations of Israel unless the context clearly indicates otherwise. The passage you gave from Acts 13 should read “we turn to the nations.” The context requires that “ethnos” here refer to the nations of Israel for the apostles did NOT turn to non-Israelites after this incident. They went straightway to the synagogue of the Jews (14:1). Only Israelites were permitted to enter the synagogue. And they went to no place but the Jewish synagogues thereafter.

Some have argued that the “Greeks” that were present in the synagogue were non-Israelites. The fact is that they were Greek speaking Jews. Therefore, the disctincion between Jew and Greek is one of class and not of race.

bodhitharta said:

Quote

It was the destiny of Paul to preach unto the gentiles

Not so. Paul said that the gospel was to be preached to the Jew FIRST. Paul would have been disobedient if he had preached to non-Israelites before the time. It was necessary that every chosen Israelite of that generation be saved before the gospel could be preached to Gentiles. All the chosen of Israel were saved by the time Christ returned in ad70. It wasn't until then that Gentiles were allowed to come into the covenant.

thinker

May 19, 2009 at 5:37 am#131265

Participant

Quote (thethinker @ May 19 2009,03:29)

bodhitharts wrote:

Quote

Acts 13:45-47 (King James Version)

47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.

Acts 28:27-29 (King James Version)

28Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.

29And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves.

Acts 9:14-16 (King James Version)

14And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name.

15But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

16For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.

bodhitharta said:

Quote

It was the destiny of Paul to preach unto the gentiles

thinker

You are still saying the same thing.

Paul was sent to the gentiles, it doesn't matter when.

Jesus was not sent to the gentiles at any time but when he came across anyone of great faith he accepted them.

May 20, 2009 at 2:14 am#131315

Participant

Hi BD:

You say:

Quote

To be subject to God is to be subject to God without qualification. you seem to have your priorities mixed up If you don't have God first in your life you cannot know Jesus.

You cannot be subjected to God except through the Lord Jesus. It is the blood that he shed for humanity which cleanses us from all sin when we come to God with a repentant heart through him. There is no other remedy for sin. God will not dwell in an unclean vessel.

Do you believe Jesus when he said:

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Jhn 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

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Jhn 10:7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

Jhn 10:8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.

Jhn 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

Jhn 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have [it] more abundantly.

Jhn 10:11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep

Love in Christ,
Marty

May 20, 2009 at 2:59 am#131317

Participant

Hi thethinker:

You said:

Quote

942767 said:Quote
When he was on earth his ministry was primarily to the Nation of Irael, but no, he was not sent exclusively to the lost sheep of the household of Israel if the intent here is meant to be only the lost sheep of the Nation of Israel. All of us who are in the body of Christ were lost sheep of the household of Israel.

Jesus' ministry was exclusively to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Jesus never preached to a Gentile. The Bible never says that Gentiles are members of the body of Christ.

Well then what about the following scriptures:

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Jhn 4:7 There cometh a woman of Samaria to draw water: Jesus saith unto her, Give me to drink.
Jhn 4:9 Then saith the woman of Samaria unto him, How is it that thou, being a Jew, askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans.

Jhn 4:10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.
Jhn 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

Jhn 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

Jhn 4:24 God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.

Jhn 4:25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.

Jhn 4:26 Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am [he].

And,

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Mat 8:5 And when Jesus was entered into Capernaum, there came unto him a centurion, beseeching him,

Mat 8:6 And saying, Lord, my servant lieth at home sick of the palsy, grievously tormented.

Mat 8:7 And Jesus saith unto him, I will come and heal him.

Mat 8:8 The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed.

Mat 8:9 For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this [man], Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth [it].

Mat 8:10 When Jesus heard [it], he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.

Mat 8:11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.

Mat 8:12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Mat 8:13 And Jesus said unto the centurion, Go thy way; and as thou hast believed, [so] be it done unto thee. And his servant was healed in the selfsame hour.

And,

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Act 10:1 There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian [band],

Act 10:2 [A] devout [man], and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.

Act 10:34 Then Peter opened [his] mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

Act 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Act 10:36 The word which [God] sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:)

Act 10:37 That word, , ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;

Act 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

Act 10:39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:

Act 10:40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;

Act 10:41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, [even] to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.

Act 10:42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God [to be] the Judge of quick and dead.

Act 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Act 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

Act 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Act 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

Love in Christ,
Marty

May 20, 2009 at 3:03 am#131318

Participant

Hi thethinker:

Also, you say:

Quote

The Bible never says that Gentiles are members of the body of Christ

Quote

Rom 12:5 So we, [being] many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.
1Cr 10:16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?
1Cr 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also [is] Christ.
1Cr 12:27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

Love in Christ,
Marty

May 21, 2009 at 4:21 pm#131404

Participant

bodhitharta, said:

Quote

You are still saying the same thing.

Paul was sent to the gentiles, it doesn't matter when.

Jesus was not sent to the gentiles at any time but when he came across anyone of great faith he accepted them.

bd,
Paul was NOT sent to the gentiles. Like Jesus he preached to them only as the occasion presented itself.

blessings,
thinker

May 21, 2009 at 4:25 pm#131405