- This topic is empty.
- Posts
I trust my relationship with God more than I trust my understanding of Scripture. There have been many times when I have thought a certain way, as per my understanding of Scripture, and God has shown me different. He has taken me into Scripture and taught me from the Scriptures. I'm sure if my belief re the trinity was upsetting Him He would show me that too. But the interesting thing is, as I have said before, He has reaffirmed my beliefs to me. Having said that, I will once again point out that I think your concept of a trinity and mine are two very different things.
HI Oxy,
Test all things.
If the spirit in you confirms something that is not in scripture to be true about God then you should know that it is not of God, because the Spirit does not speak on his own initiative but takes us back to the words of Jesus.
You cannot throw away the map and rely just on the compass.
You cannot throw away the compass and rely just on the torch.We need all the graces God gives but our greatest safety is abiding in the scriptures.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 08 2006,21:27) Hi f4y
You say
“… Hebrews 1:8 should be properly translated as follows:But to the son He says: The throne of your Father is for ever and ever; a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of your kingdom.”
I realise you have found this translation to your liking but why do you say it is the correct one again?
Nick,I never said why it is the correct one.
Would you rather go with this one?
But unto the Son [he saith], Thy throne, O God, [is] for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness [is] the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Quote (Oxy @ Sep. 08 2006,08:28) We know that John 1 says that the Word was God, right? Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 He was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things came into being through Him, and without Him not even one thing came into being that has come into being.
Joh 1:4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.
Joh 1:5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not overtake it.
Joh 1:6 There was a man sent from God; his name was John.
Joh 1:7 This one came as a witness, to bear witness concerning the Light, so that all might believe through him.
Joh 1:8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
Joh 1:9 He was the true Light; He enlightens every man coming into the world.
Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world came into being through Him, and the world did not know Him.
Joh 1:11 He came to His own, and His own received Him not.
Joh 1:12 But as many as received Him, He gave to them authority to become the children of God, to those who believe on His name,
Joh 1:13 who were born, not of bloods, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but were born of God.
Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh, and tabernacled among us. And we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and of truth.We also know that Jesus was made a little lower than the angels.
Heb 2:6 But one testified in a certain place, saying, “What is man, that You are mindful of him; or the son of man, that You visit him?
Heb 2:7 You have made him a little lower than the angels. You crowned him with glory and honor and set him over the works of Your hands.
Heb 2:8 You subjected all things under his feet.” For in subjecting all things to Him, He did not leave anything not subjected to Him. But now we do not see all things having been subjected to him.
Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor, that He by the grace of God should taste death for all.
Heb 2:10 For it became Him, for whom are all things and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons into glory, to perfect the Captain of their salvation through sufferings.
Heb 2:11 For both He who sanctifies and they who are sanctified are all of One, for which cause He is not ashamed to call them brothers,
Heb 2:12 saying, “I will declare Your name to My brothers; in the midst of the assembly I will sing praise to You.”We also know that God will answer the prayer of His Son.
Joh 17:1 Jesus spoke these words and lifted up His eyes to Heaven and said, Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son so that Your Son also may glorify You,
Joh 17:2 even as You have given Him authority over all flesh so that He should give eternal life to all You have given Him.
Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
Joh 17:4 I have glorified You upon the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do.
Joh 17:5 And now Father, glorify Me with Yourself with the glory which I had with You before the world was.And His former glory was that He was God. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.
As far as the Holy Spirit is concerned, Jesus called Him “He” on several occassions in just one verse. I believe Jesus! Joh 16:13 However, when He, the Spirit of Truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth. For He shall not speak of Himself, but whatever He hears, He shall speak. And He will announce to you things to come.
So God Almighty is God..1
Jesus is God……………..2
The Holy Spirit is God…..3Yet God is One.
Just as we are three, body, soul and spirit, but we are one.
According to scripture, the Word is Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who was made God until all that things are subdued and then the Son will give the authority of the Godhead back unto the Father so that the Father will be all in all.For there is only one God.
Quote (Oxy @ Sep. 09 2006,15:12) And still you won't listen? As I've said before, I know how God favours His Son. I would far rather be accused by the Father for thinking too highly of His beloved Son than thinking too little of Him!
Would you rather break the first commandment though?Mark 12:29
“The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.1 Corinthians 8:6
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.Quote (t8 @ Sep. 09 2006,00:03) Quote (Oxy @ Sep. 09 2006,15:12) And still you won't listen? As I've said before, I know how God favours His Son. I would far rather be accused by the Father for thinking too highly of His beloved Son than thinking too little of Him!
Would you rather break the first commandment though?Mark 12:29
“The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.1 Corinthians 8:6
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.
Phi 2:9 Therefore God has highly exalted Him, and has given Him a name which is above every name,
Phi 2:10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of heavenly ones, and of earthly ones, and of ones under the earth;
Phi 2:11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.By exalting Jesus we are giving God the glory.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 08 2006,21:52) HI Oxy, Test all things.
If the spirit in you confirms something that is not in scripture to be true about God then you should know that it is not of God, because the Spirit does not speak on his own initiative but takes us back to the words of Jesus.
You cannot throw away the map and rely just on the compass.
You cannot throw away the compass and rely just on the torch.We need all the graces God gives but our greatest safety is abiding in the scriptures.
So Nick, are you telling me that the Spirit is unable to tell me anything if it isn't in the Scriptures?Hi Oxy,
Is you want to prove your spiritual guidance then it is according to the scriptures.
The Spirit of God wants you to treasure and defend the teachings of Christ.
There are none called sons of God that do not do so.Hi Oxy,
If we are led by the Spirit than that applies to every aspect of our lives.
Paul was told by the Spirit not to enter Asia and that is not written.
That is also why we are not to prepare what we are to say when under trial.
But anything to do with truth -like the nature of God-must be able to be proven by scriptural teaching.Finally, something we agree on Nick.. Having said that, there have been a number of times when my understanding of Scripture changed considerably when God shed some light on it for me.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 08 2006,22:03) Hi f4y,
It is not a case of finding a translation or two that suits our doctrine is it?
No, it is a case in finding a translation of passages that are in accordance with Father Yahweh's word as a whole to replace with the FEW choice passages that do not agree with Father Yahweh's word as a whole.Hi f4y
You said
“And when he AGAIN brings in the firstborn into the world he says, And let all the angels of Yahweh worship him (Hebrews 1:6)In the context of this passage it is speaking of Yahshua being the firstborn (or FIRSTbegotten) from the dead (cf. Colossians 1:8).”
I presume you mean Col 1.18 so in context” 15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. “
So here we two “firstborn”s
Firstborn of every creature
AND
Firstborn from the dead.Separated by an AND so they do not mean the same.
Jesus is according to Rev 3.14
“the beginning of the creation of God;”
and
also he is, as in Rev 2“These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;”
The firstborn Son
And
The last and only Son
with those who are in him.Hi F4Y,
You say
“Note that passages 5-8 are prophetic. (cf. Psalm 2:7; 97:7; 104:4 45:6-7; 2 Samuyah 7:14; Deuteronomy 32:43 [LXX Septuagint]).“So if they were prophetic when written that does not say they are not yet fulfilled.
“Note also that the prophetic passage from 2 Samuyah in Hebrews 15:b is in the present tense. He was not yet a son begotten from the dead.”
2Sam 7
” 12″(T)When your days are complete and you (U)lie down with your fathers, (V)I will raise up your descendant after you, who will come forth from you, and I will establish his kingdom.13″(W)He shall build a house for My name, and (X)I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever.
14″(Y)I will be a father to him and he will be a son to Me; (Z)when he commits iniquity, I will correct him with the rod of men and the strokes of the sons of men,”
So Jesus was treated as any normal son by his parents on behalf of God,
and killed according to the law for the sins of mankind-the Lamb of God.He is already raised from the dead.
He is the firstborn from the dead at the time of writing of Hebrews.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 12 2006,05:10) Hi F4Y,
You say
“Note that passages 5-8 are prophetic. (cf. Psalm 2:7; 97:7; 104:4 45:6-7; 2 Samuyah 7:14; Deuteronomy 32:43 [LXX Septuagint]).“So if they were prophetic when written that does not say they are not yet fulfilled.
Yes, they were not yet fulfilled.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 12 2006,05:10) So Jesus was treated as any normal son by his parents on behalf of God,
and killed according to the law for the sins of mankind-the Lamb of God.He is already raised from the dead.
He is the firstborn from the dead at the time of writing of Hebrews.
I said:“Note that passages 5-8 are prophetic. (cf. Psalm 2:7; 97:7; 104:4 45:6-7; 2 Samuyah 7:14; Deuteronomy 32:43 [LXX Septuagint]).“
These passages are quoted from what you refer to as the “Old Testeament” in Hebrews were not yet fulfilled.
I did not say that they were not yet fulfilled “at the time of writing of Hebrews”.
The passages quoted in Hebrews are taken from what you refer to as the “Old Testament”.
Yahshua the first and only begotten son from the dead was fulfilled at the time when he was raised from the dead by Father Yahweh.
I also never said that Yahshua “was treated as any normal son by his parents on behalf of God”.
Hi f4y,
Does scripture ever call Jesus“Yahshua the first and only begotten son from the dead”
Or just the Firstborn of the dead?
Jesus was given preeminence in all things and is not just the firstborn from the dead
and it would be surely presumptuous to ascribe all descriptions of him as the firstborn
to this particular preeminence.We are of the church of the firstborn.
Heb 12
” 22But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,23To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
24And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.”
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 13 2006,23:09) Hi f4y,
Does scripture ever call Jesus“Yahshua the first and only begotten son from the dead”
Or just the Firstborn of the dead?
Jesus was given preeminence in all things and is not just the firstborn from the dead
and it would be surely presumptuous to ascribe all descriptions of him as the firstborn
to this particular preeminence.We are of the church of the firstborn.
Heb 12
” 22But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,23To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
24And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.”
At the time of Yahshua's resurrection (It was Father Yahweh Who raised him from being dead.) he was the first and only begotten (or born) from (or of) the dead.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
