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bodhitharta,
Does modern Islam call the bible corrupt, or has it always made this claim? And why are both religions — Christianity and Islam — so dependent on ancient texts to guide them if their god is truly living and able to reveal something to modern man?
It is troubling to skeptics that the Abrahamic god (or any other for that matter) is seemingly so silent and uninvolved in the modern era. There is absolutely no reason this god should have pulled back from his people if he truly exists.
Quote (kejonn @ Dec. 04 2009,09:42) bodhitharta, Does modern Islam call the bible corrupt, or has it always made this claim? And why are both religions — Christianity and Islam — so dependent on ancient texts to guide them if their god is truly living and able to reveal something to modern man?
It is troubling to skeptics that the Abrahamic god (or any other for that matter) is seemingly so silent and uninvolved in the modern era. There is absolutely no reason this god should have pulled back from his people if he truly exists.
KevinThat is of course if you assume that God does not still speak to his people or make himself known.
Maybe your testimony of God in your life is true to you.
But not so with me and many other thousands that have a personal relationship with him!
Keith
Keith,
Why do these personal relationships lead people to have different views of the same god? I know this can be he case with real human relationships to an extent, but it is greatly exaggerated with gods. I mean, you see God as a triune entity while t8 does not. That's a major difference. Why is it that you guys both seem to have a relationship with the same god yet you can't agree on this very major facet of the God of Abraham?
All of this makes perfect sense, however, if you consider that there really is no true relationship and you both just interpret the bible differently.
Quote (t8 @ Dec. 04 2009,14:25) The world in general will believe anything, but the truth. UFOs, evolution, nothing, false gods.
That is why it is called the wide path that leads to destruction.
Did you read Cato's bit about frogs?Why does belief in UFOs lead to destruction?
Your fellow frogs inhabiting your particular well don't seem to be able to tell any difference between UFOs, evolution and false gods, and frogs living in other wells don't even know of your false god.
So how is it that you are completely and incorruptibly right and all the other frogs are wrong? This is not a very universal god at all, is it.
Stuart
Quote (kejonn @ Dec. 05 2009,01:42) bodhitharta, Does modern Islam call the bible corrupt, or has it always made this claim? And why are both religions — Christianity and Islam — so dependent on ancient texts to guide them if their god is truly living and able to reveal something to modern man?
It is troubling to skeptics that the Abrahamic god (or any other for that matter) is seemingly so silent and uninvolved in the modern era. There is absolutely no reason this god should have pulled back from his people if he truly exists.
God does communicate with people all the time the text are like a textbook to give the basics and other information to give the believer a foundation just like a parent sharing family history with their childrenQuote (kejonn @ Dec. 05 2009,05:17) Keith, Why do these personal relationships lead people to have different views of the same god? I know this can be he case with real human relationships to an extent, but it is greatly exaggerated with gods. I mean, you see God as a triune entity while t8 does not. That's a major difference. Why is it that you guys both seem to have a relationship with the same god yet you can't agree on this very major facet of the God of Abraham?
All of this makes perfect sense, however, if you consider that there really is no true relationship and you both just interpret the bible differently.
I know you addressed that to keith but allow me to answer:You were correct when you said that it is like a real human relationship in which most of the time one party declares “You never listen to me”
The fact is even in the bible itself you have people not heeding the words of God it is really interesting, you have people view several miracles that cause their freedom from oppression and then God tells them what to do next they disbelieve and soon thereafter worship something they made with their own hands(golden calf)
So the question is not whether God communicates but rather why don't people listen? They read these books to the point they can't understand them as what they were given for.
Most act as though they have not been taught exactly what they believe by someone else these types have never FELT the guidance of God most have not experienced THe Holy Spirit and you can tell because their fruit is always rotten.
Only true believers have true fellowship with God.
True believers know that “Jew” “Christian” “Muslim” are just labels being called any of these names does not make one a True Believer, If you do not have mercy and compassion if you have not emptied yourself to take the form of a servant you do not know God, period!
Quote (Stu @ Dec. 05 2009,05:56) Quote (t8 @ Dec. 04 2009,14:25) The world in general will believe anything, but the truth. UFOs, evolution, nothing, false gods.
That is why it is called the wide path that leads to destruction.
Did you read Cato's bit about frogs?Why does belief in UFOs lead to destruction?
Your fellow frogs inhabiting your particular well don't seem to be able to tell any difference between UFOs, evolution and false gods, and frogs living in other wells don't even know of your false god.
So how is it that you are completely and incorruptibly right and all the other frogs are wrong? This is not a very universal god at all, is it.
Stuart
Good point stu,T8 doesn't understand that the wide path is not what people believe but how they behave. The wide path that leads to destruction is wht leads to destruction now:
Mistrust
anger
envy
covetness
intolerance
oppression
mischief
injusticeT8 believes that you can take care of your family, orphans.. visit the sick, clothe the poor have mercy and compassion on all sentient beings and because you believe in UFOs be considered evil.
Isn't that position the wide path?
For instance lets say there is severe drought somewhere, perhaps we cannot do anything about it but if we were at least more thought ful and conscious about it and really cared perhaps we would collectively think of ways to solve such things but instead some just want vindication at the expencse of someone else If Jesus was here today he probably would be nailed to the cross if the christians thought it would save them.
The bottom line is Christians NEED Christ Crucified
Indeed christians need to proclaim, in a gruesomely selfish way, a particular human sacrifice in order that they can life a 'righteous' life. I think one should need no other reason to avoid it as a belief system.
For the muslim though, are you saying that doing such good as you listed is not negated by blaspheming against the founder of the religion? Calling mohammed a crusading, violent pedophile for example? Wouldn't that be the same as what you say about christians and UFO belief (or whatever), something that could not be redeemed no matter how much you were disgusted by mistrust – intolerance – injustice?
Although I have not seen any anti-semitism from you, I would think in most parts of the islamic world muslims either secretly or overtly mistrust Jews, show anger towards them, probably envy them and covet their traditional position in the ancient financial world, definitely express intolerance and oppression, create as much mischief as they can regarding them and all with little thought to justice!
Does the koran have an equivalent to Matthew 7:12?
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Dec. 10 2009,15:46) Indeed christians need to proclaim, in a gruesomely selfish way, a particular human sacrifice in order that they can life a 'righteous' life. I think one should need no other reason to avoid it as a belief system. For the muslim though, are you saying that doing such good as you listed is not negated by blaspheming against the founder of the religion? Calling mohammed a crusading, violent pedophile for example? Wouldn't that be the same as what you say about christians and UFO belief (or whatever), something that could not be redeemed no matter how much you were disgusted by mistrust – intolerance – injustice?
Although I have not seen any anti-semitism from you, I would think in most parts of the islamic world muslims either secretly or overtly mistrust Jews, show anger towards them, probably envy them and covet their traditional position in the ancient financial world, definitely express intolerance and oppression, create as much mischief as they can regarding them and all with little thought to justice!
Does the koran have an equivalent to Matthew 7:12?
Stuart
Matthew 7:12 (King James Version)12Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
Yes, but more so the Quran and Islam in its truest sense is only concerned with the most important elements of human existence and that is doing what is right to all sentient beings.
To slander Muhammad, Jesus or anyone else can only be a criteria to judge if a person utilizes such as a way to avoid doing what's right if you want to slander Jesus to justify you allowing someone you could assist to starve it is a great evil indeed and if you want to slander Muhammad to justify taking my land or destroying where I worship it is a great evil and even if you want to slander all atheist to justify your own sin it is most evil of all.
But really there is no reason to slander anyone because while we take the time to do so, another child dies of hunger, another woman gets beaten by her husband, ……..
Hmmm.
“in its truest sense” are four little words that describe a religion that I do not think actually exists in practice.
Did you look here?
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
“Doing what is right to sentient beings” includes the philosophy of slaughtering animals in a way that causes unnecessary suffering, and the dogma that the same should happen to homosexual humans.
Stuart
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