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Hi Ed J,
ME:
In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
1. Before time began God promised eternal life? Yes or No?
YOU: No, the promise was made to us after the world began
ME: Let’s look at the surrounding text, as I would hate for you to be declaring that God is a liar Ed J.
1 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God’s elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness; 2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began; 3 But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching
Paul’s hope was in eternal life, and that eternal life had been promised before the world began. In due time that promise was made known through preaching.
Thank you Jodi,
I’m engoying our conversation, as you are helping me to understand your view.
People here sometimes resist my efforts, like Gene: who says he has no “Free Will”
And merely belittles others, like me, who seek reconciliation of our views of truth.Gene, take a lesson from Jodi, and actually listen to what others say and address them.
That is “IF” you do have a “Free Will”, which you say you don’t have. Maybe you don’t ???____________
God bless
Ed JHi Ed J,
YOU:
Yes, Jesus was made perfect at his conception, not at some later timeME:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
He LEARNED OBEDIENCE by the things he suffered, and being made perfect he became the author of eternal salvation.
This doesn’t say at his conception he was made perfect, it says the Son was made perfect upon learning obedience through suffering.
How can you be perfect, if you still have to LEARN and prove that you are obedient. If you are perfect such would NOT be necessary.
Hi Ed J,
ME:
In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
1. Before time began God promised eternal life? Yes or No?
YOU: No, the promise was made to us after the world began
ME: Let’s look at the surrounding text, as I would hate for you to be declaring that God is a liar Ed J.
1 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God’s elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness; 2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began; 3 But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching
Paul’s hope was in eternal life, and that eternal life had been promised before the world began. In due time that promise was made known through preaching.
No Jodi,
The ability to have eternal life was conceived of before the world began. But the promise was not made to us until the world and us on it were created. Compare what I’m telling you to this verse…
(Rev 23:8) “ the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.”
Was. Jesus slain before the world was created?
“Yes” or “No” ?
____________
God bless
Ed J
.Ed J,
There is no rule about asking yes or no questions and you are to take turns. This is NOT a GAME, though you seem sure bent on treating it like one. This is about TRUTH and using scripture to support your understanding, using questions to others to clarify what a person does and does not believe. I will ask questions when I want to and you can choose to answer or not answer them when you want to. All the questions I gave was behind a direct scripture and all those scriptures directly relate to each other.
God REVEALED eternal salvation later, but as He established the END (a new beginning) before He brought forth the beginning, and that END is eternal life for mankind, His WORD of eternal life to mankind had been WITH Him all along.
Hi Ed J,
YOU:
Yes, Jesus was made perfect at his conception, not at some later timeME:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Hi Jody,
This gets to the crux of the reason I started this thread. I’m so glad your eyes are finally upon it!
He learned obidence as a man, and because of this he became the Author of our eternal salvation.He was made perfect as in he had no sin, he had no sin from his conception.
Are you suggesting he was a sinner Before he learned to be obiedent to God’s will “Yes” or “No”
Perhaps you are applying a different definition to the word “perfect”, are you?
By what you are saying, Then he was not perfect until after he decided to go to the cross…Luke 22:34 “Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.”
Do you not understand the dilemma in your understanding?
____________
God bless
Ed JEd J
This is about TRUTH and using scripture to support your understanding, using questions to others to clarify what a person does and does not believe. I will ask questions when I want to and you can choose to answer or not answer them when you want to.Hi Jodi,
Choosing to not answer a question is indicative of one who does not seek reconciliation
____________
God bless
Ed JHi Ed J,
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. 8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life, of the Lamb slain, from the foundation of the world.
ED J NO, Jesus was not slain before the world was created.
All those from the beginning of the world and thereafter, who have their names written in the book of LIFE, that LIFE comes from the Lamb that was slain.
Revelation 13:8 (RSVA) and all who dwell on earth will worship it, every one whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb that was slain.
Revelation 13:8 (MSG) Everyone on earth whose name was not written from the world’s foundation in the slaughtered Lamb’s Book of Life will worship the Beast.
Revelation 13:8 (NAS) All who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain.
or you have this,
Revelation 13:8 (NIRV) All who live on earth whose names have not been written in the Book of Life will worship the beast. The Book of Life belongs to the Lamb whose death was planned before the world was created.
Acts 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
Isaiah and David both spoke of Jesus’s death, how through his wounds we would be healed, how he would die but his flesh would not be allowed to see decay. That word they spoke that was given to them had been with God before the foundation of the earth was laid.
Ed J,
There is no rule about asking yes or no questions and you are to take turns. This is NOT a GAME, though you seem sure bent on treating it like one.
Hi Jodi,
Conversation is about the participants providing input into the conversation.
If you want it to be exclusively about what you believe, then write a blog.“Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD” (Isaiah 1:18)
____________
God bless
Ed J7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. 8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life, of the Lamb slain, from the foundation of the world.
ED J NO, Jesus was not slain before the world was created.
Hi Jodi, Thank you!
Then the promise of eternal salvation could not have been given to us then either, thank you for proving my point!
Hi Ed J,
YOU:
Are you suggesting he was a sinner Before he learned to be obiedent to God’s will “Yes” or “No”
Perhaps you are applying a different definition to the word “perfect”, are you?
By what you are saying, Then he was not perfect until after he decided to go to the cross…Luke 22:34 “Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.”
Do you not understand the dilemma in your understanding?
ME: No, he was not a sinner before he learned obedience through suffering on the cross. Since his calling to righteousness where he was led by God to fulfill God’s will he remained obedient the whole time, following not his own will but God’s will only.
Ed J, I take this passage very seriously,
6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;
WHEN was this fulfilled? When did God choose to call Jesus to righteousness where God would keep him from sin, so that he could be a man without spot or blemish?
Hi Ed J,
YOU:Then the promise of eternal salvation could not have been given to us then either, thank you for proving my point!
ME: The PROMISE of eternal salvation was indeed spoken by God before the foundation of the world, just as Jesus being slain was planned to one day occur a plan made before God laid down the foundation.
The Promise was GIVEN of eternal life before the foundation of the world, not eternal life was given before the foundation of the world, there is a difference Ed J. You are not making sense.
2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
Ed J,
Seriously this is truly strange,
Before the foundation of the world the people didn’t receive the given promise of eternal salvation, that is obvious as they weren’t even created yet. Likewise of course Jesus wasn’t slain before the foundation of the world, he hadn’t been born yet and hadn’t been perfected yet.
This does NOT mean that the PROMISES were not in God before the foundation of the world, the promise of one day receiving eternal salvation, and the word of God as to how it is we are able to receive it.
Ed J,
I CANNOT let this go!!
YOU:Then the promise of eternal salvation could not have been given to us then either, thank you for proving my point!
ME: I have NEVER said that the PROMISE was RECEIVED/FULFILLED to people before the world was made, such would mean that before the world was made people existed and they had eternal life. Seriously this is stupid.
2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
God PROMISED eternal life before the world began, this has not yet been fulfilled, except for Jesus who was raised firstborn from the dead.
As God had made this promise, before the foundation of the world, IN this promise is the Lamb of God that makes the promise possible for us and that indeed has been fulfilled.
Hi Ed J,
Seriously this is truly strange,
Before the foundation of the world the people didn’t receive the given promise of eternal salvation, that is obvious as they weren’t even created yet. Likewise of course Jesus wasn’t slain before the foundation of the world, he hadn’t been born yet and hadn’t been perfected yet.
Thank for agreeing!
This gets to the crux of the reason I started this thread.
Hi Ed J,
YOU:
Are you suggesting he was a sinner Before he learned to be obiedent to God’s will “Yes” or “No”
Perhaps you are applying a different definition to the word “perfect”, are you?
By what you are saying, Then he was not perfect until after he decided to go to the cross…Luke 22:34 “Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.”
Do you not understand the dilemma in your understanding?
ME:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Ok Jodi,
1 How are you definining the word “perfect”, and
2 when are you proclaiming Jesus was made “perfect” then?Please stay on topic with me here, ok?
_______________
God bless
Ed JHi Ed J,
Mary became pregnant to a human by the power of the Holy Spirit. God created the egg and the sperm to unite to create another human life.
The son of David who would fulfill all of God’s will, was going to come to us strictly through God’s will and power, by a virgin birth.Hi Jodi,
Your answer is unclear???
Who’s sperm are you assuming God created to have Mary conceive?
1. David’s
2. Joeseph’s
3. Someone else’s?Jodi?
Hi Ed J,
You have missed my point.
This is VERY IMPORTANT, as how I read all scriptures is in holding this clear truth and applying it always.
Much disagreement on this forum, comes from the lack of people acknowledging this clear truth and applying it. Gene and I are told to be in error many times for doing nothing other than applying this truth when we read scripture.
THIS IS VERY VERY IMPORTANT.
WHAT is this CLEAR TRUTH that I am speaking of and CAN YOU ACKNOWLEDGE IT??
Isaiah 46:
9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,
10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.
13 I bring near my righteousness; it shall not be far off, and my salvation shall not tarry: and I will place salvation in Zion for Israel my glory.
Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
ED J, can you acknowledge that God our heavenly Father established the END FROM the beginning?
Can you acknowledge that IN the END that was established from the beginning was God giving His word/His promise of eternal life?
Can you acknowledge that IN that word/promise from our heavenly Father a man of the seed of David was to bring us our salvation?
Acts 13:22 And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will. 23 OF this man’s seed hath God ACCORDING TO PROMISE raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus.
Hi Jodi,
Once again your explanation is unclear to me, let me Simply ask you this…
Do you believe Joeseph, Mary’s husband, was Jesus biological father? Yes or no ?
Also please address the post above the one you responded to, ok?
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