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Quote (Not3in1 @ May 13 2008,23:47) Quote (942767 @ May 10 2008,09:51) You say that you were in leadership in the church at one time. Did you have knowledge of the truth at that time?
I most certainly thought that I did. I believe that I still hold to the majority of that truth. But obviously have given other ideas up.This has been the way of it for a lot of ministers that I have known through the years…. We all start out thinking we hold the truth in a box, and we sell that box for all we are worth!
Hi Mandy:When someone is born again, they know, not just believe, that God is a reality and that His testimony regarding His only begotten Son, Jesus, is true. This is the truth that I am talking about. If you knew the truth about this whenever you were in leadership, shouldn't you still know that this is true?
There may have been doctrines that we were taught or misunderstanding of some scriptures that we have to give up when we learn that we are wrong. Goodness knows I have been corrected many a time, and I may still have have some areas where I may have to be corrected. I welcome correction if I a wrong.
May God Bless you and your family
Quote (Stu @ May 14 2008,06:33) A fundamentalist view of life tells you that you know everything because you have access to a special safety blanket in the sky that knows everything, and yet you are small and worthless. Others don't have such a miserably narrow and brutal view of humanity and do realise that there are limits to knowledge, but don't point blank deny the things we do know pretty well because of dogmatic adherence to mythology. It takes a special kind of psychology to display this level of blinkered doggedness, I think. Stuart
Well, no I never said that I knew everything, but what I do know is that God is blessing me every day, and I find it a privilege and an honor to be his son, and so, you can think whatever you want to think.Quote (942767 @ May 17 2008,11:55) When someone is born again, they know, not just believe, that God is a reality and that His testimony regarding His only begotten Son, Jesus, is true. This is the truth that I am talking about. If you knew the truth about this whenever you were in leadership, shouldn't you still know that this is true?
People can be “born again” off the street while drunk! People can be born again who have never been churched.Just being born again does not give you the whole truth. You must study and pray and meditate.
Regarding once believing the “truth” and then turning from it: I once believed that 1 John 5:7 was absolutely true and proved the trinity. Guess what? I studied and learned it wasn't true – it was added in by a scribe! Wow, what a shocker! I adjusted what I knew as “truth”. I didn't want to, I had to.
So, do I still believe the things I did when I got born again at the age of 9? The answer is no. I've learned quite a bit since those elementary days.
Born again means that you are Baptized and are born from above, we receive God's Spirit so we can understand the things of God, without the Spirit of God we can't understand. I also believe that you have to lay Hands on someone by a Minister or somebody that has the Spirit of God. Of course that is something I cannot prove. Just that I have experienced so much after we were Baptized that was so amazing to me. And our Minister laid Hands on us. He first Baptized us and then afterwards laid hands on us.
So I really don't know why some of us receive more truths at one time then others, but I believe it is God's doing and He must have a reason. So lets put our trust in Him that in due time we will understand all truths.
I do not believe that a drunk can be born again without Him understanding what He is doing. That is why I believe we should all wait until we have some understanding before we get Baptized. Since We came out of the Catholic Church we were Baptized as Babies, if you want to call that Baptizing. I don't. But there are also people in the Catholic Church that have some of God's Holy Spirit. How else could we have come out of Her. And God is telling those people every day ” come out of her my people.”
So we learn every day. If you don't there is something wrong and you should examine yourself to find out how come.
Being on this website has taught me a lot about myself. I came on here to fellowship and God has shown me some of my faults, how do you like that.
So lets get more Oil to turn on those Lanterns so we can see. Ask and you will receive, knock and it will be opened to you.
That is how we will understand what is so hard to understand. Little by little, here a little and there a little. Line upon Line.
Thank you God for what you have done for us all. You have richly blessed all of us.
Peace and Love IreneOf course this could all be exactly what god doesn't want people to do. The blinkered have no good defense against that possibility.
Stuart
Quote (942767 @ May 17 2008,12:05) Quote (Stu @ May 14 2008,06:33) A fundamentalist view of life tells you that you know everything because you have access to a special safety blanket in the sky that knows everything, and yet you are small and worthless. Others don't have such a miserably narrow and brutal view of humanity and do realise that there are limits to knowledge, but don't point blank deny the things we do know pretty well because of dogmatic adherence to mythology. It takes a special kind of psychology to display this level of blinkered doggedness, I think. Stuart
Well, no I never said that I knew everything, but what I do know is that God is blessing me every day, and I find it a privilege and an honor to be his son, and so, you can think whatever you want to think.
But now you are being supremely dishonest. If you don't know everything then you don't know whether or not you are being deluded about the existence of this god thing you bang on about.You deny the clear facts of archeology and biology around you, then you want to claim the credibility of not looking like you know everything, then you claim that on the subject of the existence of this deity, you know that it is certainly true, which means you must know everything about it. What use is your philosophy if even I can drive trucks through the holes in its credibility?
The only honest response is for you to admit that you could be wrong and you believe all this on blind faith. That is exactly what all of the evidence says. I concede the possibility I could be wrong. Where is your honesty?
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ May 17 2008,22:31) Quote (942767 @ May 17 2008,12:05) Quote (Stu @ May 14 2008,06:33) A fundamentalist view of life tells you that you know everything because you have access to a special safety blanket in the sky that knows everything, and yet you are small and worthless. Others don't have such a miserably narrow and brutal view of humanity and do realise that there are limits to knowledge, but don't point blank deny the things we do know pretty well because of dogmatic adherence to mythology. It takes a special kind of psychology to display this level of blinkered doggedness, I think. Stuart
Well, no I never said that I knew everything, but what I do know is that God is blessing me every day, and I find it a privilege and an honor to be his son, and so, you can think whatever you want to think.
But now you are being supremely dishonest. If you don't know everything then you don't know whether or not you are being deluded about the existence of this god thing you bang on about.You deny the clear facts of archeology and biology around you, then you want to claim the credibility of not looking like you know everything, then you claim that on the subject of the existence of this deity, you know that it is certainly true, which means you must know everything about it. What use is your philosophy if even I can drive trucks through the holes in its credibility?
The only honest response is for you to admit that you could be wrong and you believe all this on blind faith. That is exactly what all of the evidence says. I concede the possibility I could be wrong. Where is your honesty?
Stuart
No, Stu:I don't know everything. I am still learning, and maybe I can learn something from you, but I am not deluded about God being a reality and that His testimony regarding Jesus is true. I know this by the Spirit of God that dwells within me, and through many personal experiences.
If you are trying to convince me that I may be wrong about this, I am sorry but you are wasting your time.
Hi Mandy:
You say:
Quote Just being born again does not give you the whole truth. You must study and pray and meditate. I agree with this statement.
I said when you are born again you know that God is a reality and that His testimony regarding His Only Begotten Son, Jesus is true. When you are born again, you receive the Holy Spirit who testifies of this truth, and once you know this truth, how can you ever deny this.
At time you are a babe in Christ, and it takes study, prayer, and learning to apply the word in your daily life to become a mature Christian. And so, I did not say that you would know all of the truth when you are born again.
I love you and desire the very best that God has to offer for you and your family.
God Bless
Quote I don't know everything. I am still learning, and maybe I can learn something from you, but I am not deluded about God being a reality and that His testimony regarding Jesus is true. I know this by the Spirit of God that dwells within me, and through many personal experiences. If you are trying to convince me that I may be wrong about this, I am sorry but you are wasting your time. I don't prostyletise. I am simply pointing out for anyone reading this that you are dishonest. Your certainty is a sham and you have entirely missed the point I am making about the nature of what you 'know'. Truth only has value if you can also read the disclaimers that come with it. Your truth has no disclaimers and therefore has no value.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ May 18 2008,15:24) Quote I don't know everything. I am still learning, and maybe I can learn something from you, but I am not deluded about God being a reality and that His testimony regarding Jesus is true. I know this by the Spirit of God that dwells within me, and through many personal experiences. If you are trying to convince me that I may be wrong about this, I am sorry but you are wasting your time. I don't prostyletise. I am simply pointing out for anyone reading this that you are dishonest. Your certainty is a sham and you have entirely missed the point I am making about the nature of what you 'know'. Truth only has value if you can also read the disclaimers that come with it. Your truth has no disclaimers and therefore has no value.
Stuart
StuHow can you be so certain that his certainty is dishonest?
How can you be so certain that his certainty is a sham?
How can you be so certain that his truth has no value?
Who is being dishonest?
Quote (Stu @ May 18 2008,15:24) Quote I don't know everything. I am still learning, and maybe I can learn something from you, but I am not deluded about God being a reality and that His testimony regarding Jesus is true. I know this by the Spirit of God that dwells within me, and through many personal experiences. If you are trying to convince me that I may be wrong about this, I am sorry but you are wasting your time. I don't prostyletise. I am simply pointing out for anyone reading this that you are dishonest. Your certainty is a sham and you have entirely missed the point I am making about the nature of what you 'know'. Truth only has value if you can also read the disclaimers that come with it. Your truth has no disclaimers and therefore has no value.
Stuart
Hi Stu:It is a minor thing for you to judge me since God knows all things and has said:
Quote Mat 5:11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
Mat 5:12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great [is] your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.Quote (942767 @ May 18 2008,16:09) Quote (Stu @ May 18 2008,15:24) Quote I don't know everything. I am still learning, and maybe I can learn something from you, but I am not deluded about God being a reality and that His testimony regarding Jesus is true. I know this by the Spirit of God that dwells within me, and through many personal experiences. If you are trying to convince me that I may be wrong about this, I am sorry but you are wasting your time. I don't prostyletise. I am simply pointing out for anyone reading this that you are dishonest. Your certainty is a sham and you have entirely missed the point I am making about the nature of what you 'know'. Truth only has value if you can also read the disclaimers that come with it. Your truth has no disclaimers and therefore has no value.
Stuart
Hi Stu:It is a minor thing for you to judge me since God knows all things and has said:
Quote Mat 5:11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
Mat 5:12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great [is] your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
I thought you didn't believe in the trinity? This was Jesus speaking, not Yahweh.Quote (kejonn @ May 19 2008,09:19) Quote (942767 @ May 18 2008,16:09) Quote (Stu @ May 18 2008,15:24) Quote I don't know everything. I am still learning, and maybe I can learn something from you, but I am not deluded about God being a reality and that His testimony regarding Jesus is true. I know this by the Spirit of God that dwells within me, and through many personal experiences. If you are trying to convince me that I may be wrong about this, I am sorry but you are wasting your time. I don't prostyletise. I am simply pointing out for anyone reading this that you are dishonest. Your certainty is a sham and you have entirely missed the point I am making about the nature of what you 'know'. Truth only has value if you can also read the disclaimers that come with it. Your truth has no disclaimers and therefore has no value.
Stuart
Hi Stu:It is a minor thing for you to judge me since God knows all things and has said:
Quote Mat 5:11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
Mat 5:12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great [is] your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
I thought you didn't believe in the trinity? This was Jesus speaking, not Yahweh.
Hi KJ:Quote Hbr 1:1 ¶ God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Hbr 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;Hi 94etc
Quote It is a minor thing for you to judge me since God knows all things and has said: (Snipped things you cannot possibly know that 'god has said')
I am not judging you. I am simply pointing out facts about your argument. I rather think dishonesty is a major thing. Perhaps you don't. What is your fitness as a person in a pastoral care role if you cannot explain in a straightforward way your position on the truth of your claims, which is that you believe it on blind faith (as the bible tells you that you must), that there is no evidence for any of your religious convictions, and that therefore you could be wrong. The religous feelings you have could be illusions. That is a completely reasonable thing to suggest to you, given the range of really whacky things other people believe to be true. Your brain is very good at fooling itself, in fact if it did not do that constantly it would go into meltdown with the sheer volume of information it would have to process. You fill in the blanks so much you don't even realise it. That is how optical illusions work, and almost certainly your need for comforting thoughts and ability to see patterns has convinced you there really is a mythological being called god. I could be wrong, of course. The only religious leader I have ever heard of uttering those words is the Dalai Lama. You don't know everything and therefore you could be wrong. Do you have his honesty?
Stuart
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