Whose Name?

[Reality]

Hi,

I am continuing to read and re-read former posts, which hold tremendous information.

I have arrived at one point where I question some of the intricate study of proper pronunciation of certain names. I believe we all agree that in addressing the One Most High, we may properly do so by addressing him as 'Father' or “Our Father' when discussing Him.

My problem is that there are several anointed ones or messengers mentioned. If I understand the function of Messiah, he came as a messenger and did not seek worship for himself, but directed that toward His Father. Why would we be more concerned with the pronunciation of his (the messenger's) name than say Adam's or Michael's or any of the other anointed ones whom The Father has sent?

I am not intending to put down all the intense study that has been provided, but I do question the necessity of placing so much angst on us to get the messenger's name correct.

Well, back to reading more about it for now.

Reality

[NickHassan]

Quote (Reality @ Sep. 26 2005,17:21)

Hi, I am continuing to read and re-read former posts, which hold tremendous information. I have arrived at one point where I question some of the intricate study of proper pronunciation of certain names.  I believe we all agree that in addressing the One Most High, we may properly do so by addressing him as 'Father' or “Our Father' when discussing Him. My problem is that there are several anointed ones or messengers mentioned.  If I understand the function of Messiah, he came as a messenger and did not seek worship for himself, but directed that toward His Father.  Why would we be more concerned with the pronunciation of his (the messenger's) name than say Adam's or Michael's or any of the other anointed ones whom The Father has sent? I am not intending to put down all the intense study that has been provided, but I do question the necessity of placing so much angst on us to get the messenger's name correct. Well, back to reading more about it for now. Reality

Hi R,
Can anyone who has not become a child of God rightly call Him Father? When Jesus spoke to his disciples in Lk 11 about prayer to the Father and seeking the Spirit he was speaking only to them and not those of the world.

The only begotten Son of God has always had a higher place than all others under God but his anointing only occurred at his baptism by the Spirit on earth. He was a vessel for God as Spirit.

Angel means messenger. Archangels or sons of God have higher roles and individual names. They were before the creation of the world as Job 38 shows us. The amazingly glorious Son of God was before them and they were created through him.

Pronunciation is a diversion and a tangential path. If someone addressed us by another form or with an accent we would not shun them. God is not a fastidious perfectionist in His relations with men. He knows we are weak ignorant vessels and He treats us fairly and kindly.

[david]

I just felt like restating Nick's words:
“Pronunciation is a diversion and a tangential path. If someone addressed us by another form or with an accent we would not shun them. God is not a fastidious perfectionist in His relations with men. He knows we are weak ignorant vessels and He treats us fairly and kindly.”

[Reality]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 27 2005,20:33)

Hi R, Can anyone who has not become a child of God rightly call Him Father? When Jesus spoke to his disciples in Lk 11 about prayer to the Father and seeking the Spirit he was speaking only to them and not those of the world. The only begotten Son of God has always had a higher place than all others under God but his anointing only occurred at his baptism by the Spirit on earth. He was a vessel for God as Spirit. Angel means messenger. Archangels or sons of God have higher roles and individual names. They were before the creation of the world as Job 38 shows us. The amazingly glorious Son of God was before them and they were created through him. Pronunciation is a diversion and a tangential path. If someone addressed us by another form or with an accent we would not shun them. God is not a fastidious perfectionist in His relations with men. He knows we are weak ignorant vessels and He treats us fairly and kindly.

Hello Nick,

I want to respond in parts, and I hope this works.

You said:

Hi R,
Can anyone who has not become a child of God rightly call Him Father? When Jesus spoke to his disciples in Lk 11 about prayer to the Father and seeking the Spirit he was speaking only to them and not those of the world.

+++++
Thanks for your response.

I think I view this somewhat differently. First, I think we are told that we are first chosen and then we can proceed to learning about our Creator and all the many truths He has for us. During this process, we would likely come to view Him as Our Father where we might not have before.

Next, It seems that Scripture is recorded for our inspiration and to learn from. If the reference you mention was only for those he was speaking to at the moment, then would there be a need for it to be written? What is the purpose of Scripture? Andy why read it if it is not for all? How can we even come to Him without first hearing (seeing) His Word?

Additionally you said:

The only begotten Son of God has always had a higher place than all others under God but his anointing only occurred at his baptism by the Spirit on earth. He was a vessel for God as Spirit.

Angel means messenger. Archangels or sons of God have higher roles and individual names. They were before the creation of the world as Job 38 shows us. The amazingly glorious Son of God was before them and they were created through him.

++++
At one time I believed exactly what you said here. Later I found that Messiah was *chosen* from among his comrades *because* he (Messiah) loved righteousness and hated evil. This is quoted in both what is now the Old Testament and also in the now called, New Testament in Hebrews.

It would have been unfair for The Father to have chosen him if he had possessed some high advantage in comparison to his brethren from whom he had been selected.

But this all occured some time before all of this physical earth and humans were created. That is clarified at Deuteronomy 32:8 in the RSV. I don't see this as a critical understanding, however.

I do agree with almost all that you say.

Later you said:

Pronunciation is a diversion and a tangential path. If someone addressed us by another form or with an accent we would not shun them. God is not a fastidious perfectionist in His relations with men. He knows we are weak ignorant vessels and He treats us fairly and kindly.

++++
Here we are in total agreement.

I'll be back soon, but must run for now.

Reality

[NickHassan]

Quote (Reality @ Sep. 28 2005,00:41)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 27 2005,20:33) Hi R, Can anyone who has not become a child of God rightly call Him Father? When Jesus spoke to his disciples in Lk 11 about prayer to the Father and seeking the Spirit he was speaking only to them and not those of the world. The only begotten Son of God has always had a higher place than all others under God but his anointing only occurred at his baptism by the Spirit on earth. He was a vessel for God as Spirit. Angel means messenger. Archangels or sons of God have higher roles and individual names. They were before the creation of the world as Job 38 shows us. The amazingly glorious Son of God was before them and they were created through him. Pronunciation is a diversion and a tangential path. If someone addressed us by another form or with an accent we would not shun them. God is not a fastidious perfectionist in His relations with men. He knows we are weak ignorant vessels and He treats us fairly and kindly. Hello Nick, I want to respond in parts, and I hope this works. You said: Hi R, Can anyone who has not become a child of God rightly call Him Father? When Jesus spoke to his disciples in Lk 11 about prayer to the Father and seeking the Spirit he was speaking only to them and not those of the world. +++++ Thanks for your response.   I think I view this somewhat differently.  First, I think we are told that we are first chosen and then we can proceed to learning about our Creator and all the many truths He has for us.  During this process, we would likely come to view Him as Our Father where we might not have before. Next, It seems that Scripture is recorded for our inspiration and to learn from.  If the reference you mention was only for those he was speaking to at the moment, then would there be a need for it to be written?  What is the purpose of Scripture? Andy why read it if it is not for all?  How can we even come to Him without first hearing (seeing) His Word? Additionally you said: The only begotten Son of God has always had a higher place than all others under God but his anointing only occurred at his baptism by the Spirit on earth. He was a vessel for God as Spirit. Angel means messenger. Archangels or sons of God have higher roles and individual names. They were before the creation of the world as Job 38 shows us. The amazingly glorious Son of God was before them and they were created through him. ++++ At one time I believed exactly what you said here.  Later I found that Messiah was *chosen* from among his comrades *because* he (Messiah) loved righteousness and hated evil.  This is quoted in both what is now the Old Testament and also in the now called, New Testament in Hebrews. It would have been unfair for The Father to have chosen him if he had possessed some high advantage in comparison to his brethren from whom he had been selected.   But this all occured some time before all of this physical earth and humans were created. That is clarified at Deuteronomy 32:8 in the RSV. I don't see this as a critical understanding, however.   I do agree with almost all that you say. Later you said: Pronunciation is a diversion and a tangential path. If someone addressed us by another form or with an accent we would not shun them. God is not a fastidious perfectionist in His relations with men. He knows we are weak ignorant vessels and He treats us fairly and kindly. ++++ Here we are in total agreement. I'll be back soon, but must run for now. Reality

Hi Reality,
Ps 45.7 quoted in Hebrews
“You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness, therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of joy above your fellows”
Was this before or after his mission? I believe that is you look at the context of vv 1-6 and 8-17 you will see that this Psalm refers to the King. Yeshua took the throne as King only after his mission and the return to heaven as shown in Dan 7.13f. This was his anointing as king not his anointing with the Spirit.
Yes he was one of the sons of God and the others are shown in Job 1-2 and 38 [prior to the establishment of the earth]But these facts do not alter the situation shown in Hebrews1 and Colossians etc that he was involved in their creation. He was the”only begotten” and the “firstborn” son, the beginning of the creation of God[Rev3 .14].
Yes he was chosen and Satan, another son as seen in Jb 1-2, failed in the things he was chosen for.

We too are called and chosen but we have a role to play in that election. We must obey the righteous demands of God that we be reborn into the Son.

[Author]

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