Who will Christ and his Saints be ruling over?

[terraricca]

J42

Quote

Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so amen.

could you tell me where this statement can be true to the letter ???with scriptures

Pierre

[journey42]

Quote (toby @ Dec. 23 2011,10:28)

Hi all,

Back to the subject

What have we concluded so far, since i put this post on?

All we have is a bunch of mixed up interpretations, and people disagreeing with myself and each other. The main topic is being lost.

I am showing you something here. I sincerely ask you to stick with the subject.

The new covenant came in to place when Christ died on the cross.

Hebrews 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of color=blue]necessity[/color] be the death of the testator.

Hebrews 9:17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

So this new, improved covenant is;
that the only way to the Father now is through his Son Jesus Christ, and through no one else. We cannot come in through the backdoor, or any other door. This applies to gentile and Jews. Everyone now.

And those Israelites who died before Jesus was even born, never got a chance to serve God through his son. They must now find out who the King of Kings is, for God has made his son Lord over all.

No man can go to the Father, unless he go through the son.

So now they will get a chance, during the 1000 year reign, to know their Lord

Isaiah 62:7 And give him no rest, till he establish, and till he make Jerusalem a praise in the earth.

Isaiah 45:17 But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

I explained to you that God has reserved a small number of Israelites. Not gentiles, but Israelites. It does not say anywhere that he has RESERVED gentiles to bring back in the flesh, but it says in so much scripture that he has RESERVED Israelites.

Isaiah 49:6 And he said, It is a light thing, that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel; I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth…

Prophesy, concerning Jesus. Jesus will raise, that means bring back from the dead the tribes of Jacob and RESTORE the PRESERVED of ISRAEL. The remnant. (Ezekiel Ch37)

This only happens after Christ returns. And not a day before.

Even though Israel have their own nation now, there are still many that are scattered throughout the earth. When Jacobs trouble happens, many will flee and be scattered even more.

Isaiah 31:1 Woe to them that go down to Egypt for help; and stay on horses, and trust in chariots, because they are many; and in horseman, because they are very strong; but they look not unto the Holy One of Israel neither seek the Lord?

Jeremiah 32:37 Behold, I will gather them out of all countries, whither I have driven them in my anger, and in my fury, and in great wrath; and I will bring them AGAIN unto this place, and I will cause them to dwell safely.

Israel have never dwelt safely. They have always had war. They have always had enemy's. Forever on standby. So this prophesy is talking about FUTURE. So God say's he will bring them AGAIN to this place.

Jeremiah 51:3 For the Lord shall comfort Zion: he will comfort all her waste places; and he will make her wilderness like Eden, and her desert like the garden of the Lord; joy and gladness shall be found therein, thanksgiving, and the voice of melody.

Jeremiah 51:4 Hearken unto me, MY PEOPLE; and give ear unto me, O MY NATION: for a law shall proceed from me, and I will make my judgment to rest for A LIGHT OF THE PEOPLE.

Israel will be a model nation again, but this time they will not fall.

Jeremiah 32:39 And I will give them one heart, and one way, that they may fear me forever, for the good of them, and of their children after them.

God will give them one way (Christ) for the good of them, and their children after them. So this is proof that they will multiply. This happens to those living in the flesh.

Jeremiah 32:42 For thus saith the Lord, Like as I have brought all this great evil upon this people, so will I bring upon them all the good that I have promised them.

God is talking about Israel. And will fulfill his promise

Isaiah 30:19 For the people shall dwell in Zion at Jeusalem, thou shall weep no more: he will be very gracious unto thee at the voice of thy cry; when he shall hear it, he will answer thee.

Jeremiah 33:6 Behold, I will bring it health and cure, and I will cure them, and will reveal unto them the abundance of PEACE & TRUTH.

Jeremiah 33:7 And I will cause the captivity of Judah and the captivity of Israel to return, and will build them, as at the first.

Jeremiah 33:8 And I will cleanse them from all their iniquity, whereby they have sinned against me, and I will pardon all their iniquities, whereby they have sinned, and whereby they have transgressed against me.

Jeremiah 33:9 And it shall be to me a name of joy, a praise and an honor before all the nations of the earth, which shall hear all the good that I do unto them: and they shall fear and tremble for all the goodness and for all the prosperity that I procure unto it.

Do not despise the mercy God will have on his people. In the end we will all be joined as one. All these prophesies have not been fulfilled.

So does it matter that this happen or not? Absolutely, otherwise we would be preaching lies, or missing something revealed to us.

God bless, I hope somebody out there can see it, that the remnant of Israel, (not gentiles) dead and alive according to the election, who God chooses will be brought back to their own land, and will be under subjection to Christ and his saints, and they will be made a strong model nation again, and will be taught the truth, and the nations will see the glory of God in them, and knowledge will cover the earth.

[Pastry]

Quote (Marlin1 @ Dec. 27 2011,11:30)

Georg, That is something that we do agree on,  Jesus was born in the spring. Marlin

No, he died in the spring, Easter; but he was born in the fall, end of September, or beginning of October.

Georg

[terraricca]

Quote (Pastry @ Dec. 28 2011,12:25)

Quote (Marlin1 @ Dec. 27 2011,11:30) Georg, That is something that we do agree on,  Jesus was born in the spring. Marlin No, he died in the spring, Easter; but he was born in the fall, end of September, or beginning of October. Georg

georg

you got that right

Pierre

[toby]

Quote (journey42 @ Dec. 28 2011,00:01)

Quote (toby @ Dec. 23 2011,10:28) Hi all, Back to the subject What have we concluded so far, since i put this post on? All we have is a bunch of mixed up interpretations, and people disagreeing with myself and each other.  The main topic is being lost. I am showing you something here.  I sincerely ask you to stick with the subject. The new covenant came in to place when Christ died on the cross. Hebrews 9:16   For where a testament is, there must also of color=blue]necessity[/color] be the death of the testator. Hebrews 9:17   For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. So this new, improved covenant is; that the only way to the Father now is through his Son Jesus Christ, and through no one else.  We cannot come in through the backdoor, or any other door.  This applies to gentile and Jews.  Everyone now. And those Israelites who died before Jesus was even born, never got a chance to serve God through his son.  They must now find out who the King of Kings is, for God has made his son Lord over all. No man can go to the Father, unless he go through the son. So now they will get a chance, during the 1000 year reign, to know their Lord Isaiah 62:7   And give him no rest, till he establish, and till he make Jerusalem a praise in the earth. Isaiah 45:17   But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end. I explained to you that God has reserved a small number of Israelites.  Not gentiles, but Israelites.  It does not say anywhere that he has RESERVED gentiles to bring back in the flesh, but it says in so much scripture that he has RESERVED Israelites. Isaiah 49:6  And he said, It is a light thing, that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel; I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth… Prophesy, concerning Jesus.  Jesus will raise, that means bring back from the dead the tribes of Jacob and RESTORE the PRESERVED of ISRAEL. The remnant.  (Ezekiel Ch37) This only happens after Christ returns.  And not a day before. Even though Israel have their own nation now, there are still many that are scattered throughout the earth.  When Jacobs trouble happens, many will flee and be scattered even more. Isaiah 31:1   Woe to them that go down to Egypt for help; and stay on horses, and trust in chariots, because they are many; and in horseman, because they are very strong; but they look not unto the Holy One of Israel neither seek the Lord? Jeremiah 32:37   Behold, I will gather them out of all countries, whither I have driven them in my anger, and in my fury, and in great wrath; and I will bring them AGAIN unto this place, and I will cause them to dwell safely. Israel have never dwelt safely.  They have always had war.  They have always had enemy's.  Forever on standby.  So this prophesy is talking about FUTURE.  So God say's he will bring them AGAIN to this place. Jeremiah 51:3   For the Lord shall comfort Zion: he will comfort all her waste places; and he will make her wilderness like Eden, and her desert like the garden of the Lord; joy and gladness shall be found therein, thanksgiving, and the voice of melody. Jeremiah 51:4   Hearken unto me, MY PEOPLE; and give ear unto me, O MY NATION: for a law shall proceed from me, and I will make my judgment to rest for A LIGHT OF THE PEOPLE. Israel will be a model nation again, but this time they will not fall. Jeremiah 32:39  And I will give them one heart, and one way, that they may fear me forever, for the good of them, and of their children after them. God will give them one way (Christ) for the good of them, and their children after them.  So this is proof that they will multiply.  This happens to those living in the flesh. Jeremiah 32:42   For thus saith the Lord, Like as I have brought all this great evil upon this people, so will I bring upon them all the good that I have promised them. God is talking about Israel.  And will fulfill his promise Isaiah 30:19   For the people shall dwell in Zion at Jeusalem, thou shall weep no more: he will be very gracious unto thee at the voice of thy cry; when he shall hear it, he will answer thee. Jeremiah 33:6   Behold, I will bring it health and cure, and I will cure them, and will reveal unto them the abundance of PEACE & TRUTH. Jeremiah 33:7   And I will cause the captivity of Judah and the captivity of Israel to return, and will build them, as at the first. Jeremiah 33:8   And I will cleanse them from all their iniquity, whereby they have sinned against me, and I will pardon all their iniquities, whereby they have sinned, and whereby they have transgressed against me. Jeremiah 33:9   And it shall be to me a name of joy, a praise and an honor before all the nations of the earth, which shall hear all the good that I do unto them: and they shall fear and tremble for all the goodness and for all the prosperity that I procure unto it. Do not despise the mercy God will have on his people.  In the end we will all be joined as one.  All these prophesies have not been fulfilled. So does it matter that this happen or not?  Absolutely, otherwise we would be preaching lies, or missing something revealed to us. God bless, I hope somebody out there can see it, that the remnant of Israel, (not gentiles) dead and alive according to the election, who God chooses will be brought back to their own land, and will be under subjection to Christ and his saints, and they will be made a strong model nation again, and will be taught the truth, and the nations will see the glory of God in them, and knowledge will cover the earth.

Hi Journey42.

That's all very good, but where does it say all of this in the New Testament?

Where does it say that those who are Jewish – who do not believe in Jesus now – will get a second chance in the future?

Could you please point me to where?

Thank you!

[Marlin1]

Journey42,

Quote

Journey42 said, All we have is a bunch of mixed up interpretations, and people disagreeing.

You have said truth here.

Quote

Journey42 said, So now they will get a chance, during the 1000 year reign, to know their Lord

Scripture doesn't agree with this.

Quote

REV 20:5 † But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Quote

Journey42 said, I hope somebody out there can see it, that the remnant of Israel, (not gentiles) dead and alive according to the election, who God chooses will be brought back to their own land,

Absolutely, this will happen, it just won't happen during the 1000 year rein.

Marlin

[toby]

Quote (Marlin1 @ Dec. 28 2011,08:24)

Quote Journey42 said, I hope somebody out there can see it, that the remnant of Israel, (not gentiles) dead and alive according to the election, who God chooses will be brought back to their own land, Absolutely, this will happen, it just won't happen during the 1000 year rein. Marlin

Hi Marlin1 and all.

Wasn't all fullfilled in Christ?
Where is the Temple?
Christ identified Himself as the Temple.
He IS the temple (The Prophets spoke about).
And all of those who are IN HIM.

One Body.
One Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is over all, and through all, and in us all.

Why do you look for a CARNAL Temple?
Is this not rejecting Christ?
Or maybe misunderstanding?
Or am I misunderstanding?

Please-take me slowly with this.
Thank You

[journey42]

Quote (toby @ Dec. 28 2011,08:08)

Hi Journey42. That's all very good, but where does it say all of this in the New Testament? Where does it say that those who are Jewish – who do not believe in Jesus now – will get a second chance in the future? Could you please point me to where? Thank you!

Hi Toby

It is mainly revealed in the old testament, in the prophesies, by the prophets of God. I gave you scripture, and only quoted some verses from Isaiah & Jeremiah. You have to also read ezekiel ch 37.

In the New testament, there is only a few clues regarding the remnant, of Israel – see below.

We have to connect the scriptures. It has to fit like a glove.

It doesn't say that those Jewish never believed in Jesus, for my point is that they were not even alive when Jesus came the first time. So, how can they reject one they never even knew.

There were lots that served God, through the only way they knew how back then, through the Law, and not even all of them were under the law, eg. Abraham, Isaac, Jacob were before the Law and had faith.

Regarding the remnant that is alive when Christ comes, Maybe they finaly accept him, or in their distress cry out to him for help during Jacob's trouble. I don't know how God is going to elect them, what his method is, for only he knows inside the heart.

Don't forget it's not all of the Israelites that ever lived that will be brought back, it is only the RESERVED, known as the REMNANT and I don't know how many. I presume some from every generation; this one is mentioned in the NT

Romans 11:4 But what says the answer of God unto him? I have RESERVED to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of baal.

if you read before this it says;

Romans 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham of the tribe of Benjamin.

Romans 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripoture saith of Elijah? how he makes intercession to God against ISRAEL saying,

Romans 11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars, and I am left alone, and they seek my life,

Romans 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

This would refer to those of the old testament. Also written in;

1Kings 19:18 Yet I have left me SEVEN THOUSAND in ISRAEL, all the knees which have not bowed unto Baal, and every mouth which hath not kissed him. (in Israel)

then back to;
Romans 11:5 EVEN SO then at THIS PRESENT TIME also there is a REMNANT according to the ELECTION OF GRACE. (Israel)

So the above is talking about Israel, and not the gentiles, hope this helped, and only a clue given regarding the reserved Israelites, until I find some more

[seekingtruth]

journey42,
I've always believed that the verses you reference applied to the Israelites remaining alive at the beginning of the 1000 year reign. What verses support them being raised from the dead?

Thanks Wm

[terraricca]

all

Mt 20:1 “For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire men to work in his vineyard.
Mt 20:2 He agreed to pay them a denarius for the day and sent them into his vineyard.
Mt 20:3 “About the third hour he went out and saw others standing in the marketplace doing nothing.
Mt 20:4 He told them, ‘You also go and work in my vineyard, and I will pay you whatever is right.’
Mt 20:5 So they went.
“He went out again about the sixth hour and the ninth hour and did the same thing.
Mt 20:6 About the eleventh hour he went out and found still others standing around. He asked them, ‘Why have you been standing here all day long doing nothing?’
Mt 20:7 “ ‘Because no one has hired us,’ they answered.
“He said to them, ‘You also go and work in my vineyard.’
Mt 20:8 “When evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, ‘Call the workers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last ones hired and going on to the first.’
Mt 20:9 “The workers who were hired about the eleventh hour came and each received a denarius.
Mt 20:10 So when those came who were hired first, they expected to receive more. But each one of them also received a denarius.
Mt 20:11 When they received it, they began to grumble against the landowner.
Mt 20:12 ‘These men who were hired last worked only one hour,’ they said, ‘and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the work and the heat of the day.’
Mt 20:13 “But he answered one of them, ‘Friend, I am not being unfair to you. Didn’t you agree to work for a denarius?
Mt 20:14 Take your pay and go. I want to give the man who was hired last the same as I gave you.
Mt 20:15 Don’t I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?’
Mt 20:16 “So the last will be first, and the first will be last.”

what is the 11 hour ? and why did he came and call at every hour ? and what was the pay for wich they each worked ?what happen at the end of the day ?who get paid first ?

now when is the eleventh hour ?this is only ONE HOUR ,right ?

MT 20:12 saying, ‘These last men have worked only one hour, and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden and the scorching heat of the day.’

MT 26:40 And He *came to the disciples and *found them sleeping, and *said to Peter, “So, you men could not keep watch with Me for one hour?

REV 17:12 “The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but they receive authority as kings with the beast for one hour.
REV 18:10 standing at a distance because of the fear of her torment, saying, ‘ Woe, woe, the great city, Babylon, the strong city! For in one hour your judgment has come.’
REV 18:17 for in one hour such great wealth has been laid waste!’ And every shipmaster and every passenger and sailor, and as many as make their living by the sea, stood at a distance,
REV 18:19 “And they threw dust on their heads and were crying out, weeping and mourning, saying, ‘ Woe, woe, the great city, in which all who had ships at sea became rich by her wealth, for in one hour she has been laid waste!’

Rev 20:5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.)THIS TO ME REPRESENT THE ELEVENT HOUR THE FINAL TIME CALL BEFORE FINAL CLEAN UP,THIS THE SECOND RESURRECTION AND THE WHO DIES THERE IT IS BY THE SECOND DEAD,

Pierre

[journey42]

Quote (seekingtruth @ Dec. 28 2011,19:58)

journey42, I've always believed that the verses you reference applied to the Israelites remaining alive at the beginning of the 1000 year reign. What verses support them being raised from the dead? Thanks Wm

Hi WM

Thank you for your interest.

I'm not sure if you wanted me to point out the scriptures I've already quoted, or new ones. I will give you other ones to back, and if that is not what you meant, we can go over again.

Yes there will be some alive at Christ's return, but the scriptures proving the Israelites will be raised from the dead are as follows.

Ezekiel 37:1 The hand of the Lord was upon me, and carried me out in the spirit of the Lord, and set me down in the midst of the valley which was full of bones.

Ezekiel 37:2 And caused me to pass buy them round about: and, behold, there were VERY MANY in the OPEN VALLEY, and, lo, they were VERY DRY

Ezekiel 37:3 And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live? And I answered, O Lord God, thou knowest.

Ezekiel 37:4 Again he said unto me, prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, Oh ye dry bones, hear the word of the Lord.

Ezekiel 37:5 Thus saith the Lord God unto these bones; behold, I will cause BREATH to enter into you, and YE SHALL LIVE.

Ezekiel 37:6 And I will lay sinews upon you and will bring up flesh upon you and cover you with skinand ye shall live:

Ezekiel 37:7 So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and Behold a shaking, and [the bones came together, bone to his bone

Ezekiel 37:8 And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them and the skin covered them above but there was no breath in them.

Ezekiel 37:9 Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord God; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live

Ezekiel 37:10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.

Ezekiel 37:11 Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.

Ezekiel 37:12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus said the Lord God; Behold O my people I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.

Ezekiel 37:13 And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves.

Ezekiel 37:14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the Lord have spoken it and performed it, says the Lord.

Some will say, this is spiritually speaking, Israel are dead in the spirit, but God will make them believe…..But no, these scriptures actually reveal to us that God is going to bring them back in the flesh. These are old bones, they have been dead for a long time. There will be peace for a thousand years, and these will be brought back to life & taught. They are not going through resurrection, but revival. They are flesh, not spirit, and multiply and die again. Them and their children will make up the whole house of Israel. The new Israel. The obedient, full of knowledge Israel. In the end, they will be changed to spirit of course but until then…….

This all connects with the other scriptures, a man will die a good age at 100 years old, and an infant shall not die and live only a few days.(Isaiah 65:19,20) They will build their own houses, and plant their own vineyards, and his ELECT shall enjoy the work of their hands (Isaiah 65:22)

The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all MY HOLY MOUNTAIN. (Isaiah 65:25)

[seekingtruth]

journey42,
Thank you, I can see how you could interpret Ezekiel that way, but I believe it to be speaking of the nation of Israel coming back to the land, which I believe to be just as valid, what else do you have? I already believe that the Israelites surviving will enter the thousand year reign of Christ, so please provide support for the old testaments Israelites being resurrected.

Thanks, Wm

[toby]

Hi Journey42.  Thank you for those scriptures and your explanation.  There is plenty to think about there, which I will.

Just out of curiousity, have you ever heard about 'Jews against Zionism? (True Torah Jews) – Google it if you want.

What is your view on Zionism?  You don't have to answer, just wondering Journey42 –
(and others too)

[Marlin1]

Brother Toby,

I believe that Brother Journey42 has a pretty good understanding of this.  I will try to add just a little, if I can.

Quote

ROM 11:25 † For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. ROM 11:26 † And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 † For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. 28 † As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

In verse 25 Paul tells us that Israel was blinded in part, so that God could take a people out of the Gentiles for His Name sake.
Israel will be saved as a nation, we are saved as an individual.

Quote

ZEC 12:9 † And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. 10 † And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. ZEC 13:1 † In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.

Can you see here that it is the Jew that Zechariah is talking of.  And it is this side the the resurrection.  v10 They saw what they had done to Him.  One other thing to notice here is this happened to Israel in a day.  You see God treats them as a nation.  

All Jews will not be saved, but all Israel will.  God knows which Jews make up Israel.
Just like all Gentile Christians will not be saved, but all those that are truly His will.

Quote

MAT 7:22 † Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? MAT 7:23 † And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

As to your questions,
I believe when God goes back to the Jew, He is done with us.  So those that are in Christ, will be at the wedding feast.  All of us that are in Him will be caught up with Him.

Quote

I THESSALONIANS 4:17 † Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

I realize that some don't believe this scripture means what it says, but that only means it is not for them.  I pray that all can see that it was for everyone.
So at that time it won't matter to us, for we won't be here.

God Bless You
Marlin

[terraricca]

Marlin

Quote

As to your questions, I believe when God goes back to the Jew, He is done with us.  So those that are in Christ, will be at the wedding feast.  All of us that are in Him will be caught up with Him. Quote I THESSALONIANS 4:17 † Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. I realize that some don't believe this scripture means what it says, but that only means it is not for them.  I pray that all can see that it was for everyone. So at that time it won't matter to us, for we won't be here. God Bless You Marlin

take notice ;

Phil 3:13 Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead,
Phil 3:14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.
Phil 3:15 All of us who are mature should take such a view of things.

now also take notice of this ;;

And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you.
Phil 3:16 Only let us live up to what we have already attained.

I hope you understand what Paul is saying
many will be called but few will be elected (144k only )

Pierre

[Marlin1]

Brother Pierre,

Sorry brother the way I see it is the 144,000 are the Jew. Not the bride. The 144,000 is made up of the the 12 tribes. Of which John NEW WHO THEY WERE.

You were right in one thing that I said though, “I should not have said it was not for them”. I should have said it wasn't for them, YET….

Thank You and God Bless
Marlin

[terraricca]

Quote (Marlin1 @ Dec. 29 2011,21:30)

Brother Pierre, Sorry brother the way I see it is the 144,000 are the Jew.  Not the bride.  The 144,000 is made up of the the 12 tribes.  Of which John NEW WHO THEY WERE. You were right in one thing that I said though,  “I should not have said it was not for them”.  I should have said it wasn't for them, YET…. Thank You and God Bless Marlin

Marlin

so no grafting to the main stem for gentiles ??

another mistake in the bible and Marlin find it, who to believe

Marlin or scriptures ?? well I go for scriptures ,

Pierre

[Marlin1]

Brother Pierre,

Scripture Please?

Marlin

[terraricca]

Quote (Marlin1 @ Dec. 29 2011,22:00)

Brother Pierre, Scripture Please? Marlin

RO 11:17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree,
RO 11:19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.”
RO 11:23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
RO 11:24 For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree?

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Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 28 2011,22:12)

all Mt 20:1 “For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire men to work in his vineyard. Mt 20:2 He agreed to pay them a denarius for the day and sent them into his vineyard. Mt 20:3 “About the third hour he went out and saw others standing in the marketplace doing nothing. Mt 20:4 He told them, ‘You also go and work in my vineyard, and I will pay you whatever is right.’ Mt 20:5 So they went. “He went out again about the sixth hour and the ninth hour and did the same thing. Mt 20:6 About the eleventh hour he went out and found still others standing around. He asked them, ‘Why have you been standing here all day long doing nothing?’ Mt 20:7 “ ‘Because no one has hired us,’ they answered. “He said to them, ‘You also go and work in my vineyard.’ Mt 20:8 “When evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, ‘Call the workers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last ones hired and going on to the first.’ Mt 20:9 “The workers who were hired about the eleventh hour came and each received a denarius. Mt 20:10 So when those came who were hired first, they expected to receive more. But each one of them also received a denarius. Mt 20:11 When they received it, they began to grumble against the landowner. Mt 20:12 ‘These men who were hired last worked only one hour,’ they said, ‘and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the work and the heat of the day.’ Mt 20:13 “But he answered one of them, ‘Friend, I am not being unfair to you. Didn’t you agree to work for a denarius? Mt 20:14 Take your pay and go. I want to give the man who was hired last the same as I gave you. Mt 20:15 Don’t I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?’ Mt 20:16 “So the last will be first, and the first will be last.” what is the 11 hour ? and why did he came and call at every hour ? and what was the pay for wich they each worked ?what happen at the end of the day ?who get paid first ? now when is the eleventh hour ?this is only ONE HOUR ,right ? MT 20:12 saying, ‘These last men have worked only one hour, and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden and the scorching heat of the day.’ MT 26:40 And He *came to the disciples and *found them sleeping, and *said to Peter, “So, you men could not keep watch with Me for one hour? REV 17:12 “The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but they receive authority as kings with the beast for one hour. REV 18:10 standing at a distance because of the fear of her torment, saying, ‘ Woe, woe, the great city, Babylon, the strong city! For in one hour your judgment has come.’ REV 18:17 for in one hour such great wealth has been laid waste!’ And every shipmaster and every passenger and sailor, and as many as make their living by the sea, stood at a distance, REV 18:19 “And they threw dust on their heads and were crying out, weeping and mourning, saying, ‘ Woe, woe, the great city, in which all who had ships at sea became rich by her wealth, for in one hour she has been laid waste!’ Rev 20:5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.)THIS TO ME REPRESENT THE ELEVENT HOUR  THE FINAL TIME CALL BEFORE FINAL CLEAN UP,THIS THE SECOND RESURRECTION AND THE WHO DIES THERE IT IS BY THE SECOND DEAD, Pierre

Hi Pierre

To me those verses you gave, and the summing up of it all was the first will be last, and the last will be first

The old Testament
The new Testament

The Israelites were under the old covenant
The Gentiles are under the new covenant

The prophets, and all those in the old testament who laboured for the Lord will receive their reward last

The gentiles who are the last ones to come in, get their reward first.

For the gentiles who knew and believed in Christ will be resurrected and changed into spirit at Christ's coming. Israel rejected their Messiah, save a few.

The Israelites who did not know Christ will be bought back in the flesh to learn about him, and they will serve him. Only those that obeyed God. Not the defiled or vile, for any type like this are not allowed to enter this holy camp.

In the end, all will get the same reward. The same wages. As those Israelites will be turned to spirit as well.

So they shouldn't be jealous that the gentiles got their reward first. Because God made an agreement with them and offered them the same wages as he offers the new labourers. They all get paid the same.

If any Jew or Israelite under the new testament believe and follow Christ in spirit and in truth he will be raised in the first resurrection, and it won't matter what you are, Jew or gentile.

Also, you said the rest of the dead did not come to life until the 2nd resurrection. Yes this is true.

But don't forget that there will be an end of this age. This age as we know it, ruled by Satan, the god of this world. When he is bound up, and the false prophet and the beast (this end time system, and all the systems before it, Satan's kingdoms) will be thrown in the lake of fire. Babylon will not be remembered any more. Her system gone. Money, greed, materials, factories, lust, false religions, high class, middle class, low class, raping the earth for profits, you name it, all gone

So end of that age. Spiritual and physical babylon gone. That is the eleventh hour…right before Christ comes and changes everything. We have to put oil in our lamps for the bridegroom is coming soon.

then the 1000 years begin and a new era (1st dominion) And Jesus has this dominion, and claims his throne, and will rule the nations with an iron rod.

The world will go back to basics. Start again. Build own houses out of wood. Grow own food.

But in Jerusalem they will flourish, their land will be like the garden of Eden. Their land will stand out far above the rest. They will have an abundance of food, and peace, and love. The holy spirit is going to be amazing there. They are feeding of Christ. Every brother will love each other. They will look out for one another. The children will be safe, nothing can harm them. It's going to be amazing. All will walk in the Lord.

The world will witness this. They will be encouraged.

God bless you Pierre.

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