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Hi TT,
Did you think Jesus could not have resisted the will of his God?
He chose to die for you by his own free will.Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 12 2010,05:38) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 12 2010,05:34) Hi TT,
You have no scriptural basis and rely on greek logic so why would you call others philosophers?
Nick,So you reject that John 10:17-18 is scripture? Are you saying that you believe that the Jesus who appeared after the resurrection is not the SAME Jesus that was crucified?
thinker
thinkerWhat do you think this power was that allowed Jesus to lay down his life and take it again?
You and I don't have that power because you and I are sinners; it is sin that holds us down, Jesus had no sin to hold him down that is why the Father could raise him up again because Jesus died for our sins , not for his own.
You ask; did Jesus not look the same after his resurrection? I tell you, NO he did not.Jhn 20:15 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.
Did Mary recognize him?
Jhn 21:4 But when the morning was now come, Jesus stood on the shore: but the disciples knew not that it was Jesus.
Why did the disciples not recognize him?
Luk 24:13 ¶ And, behold, two of them went that same day to a village called Emmaus, which was from Jerusalem about threescore furlongs.
Luk 24:15 And it came to pass, that, while they communed together and reasoned, Jesus himself drew near, and went with them.
Luk 24:16 But their eyes were holden that they should not know him.
Why did they not recognize him?
Jesus flesh human body had taken on all of our sins, sin is what keeps you in your grave after you die. Sin is what kept Jesus' human body in the grave but as God had said,Psa 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul (body) in hell (grave); neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One (Jesus) to see corruption (decay).
Jesus was a spirit being before he became one of us,
Hbr 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
After his resurrection God gave him back his true nature, spirit nature (like the angels).
The fact that his human body was never found does not mean he was bodily raised; his human body did what he came to do, die for us, it had to remain dead because “IT” was the ransom; it was our exchange in the grave.
You have to also understand that in our first death, only the physical body dies, our spirit/mind is preserved, and given back to us at our resurrection. Jesus is a spirit being, all spirit beings (angels) have a mind/spirit, we have a mind/spirit so does God, only his Mind/Spirit is holy, ours is not. It is our mind/spirit that holds all of our knowledge and memories, who and what we are. We will have a new body, at our resurrection, but our mind/spirit will be the same.Georg
hi
Christ as high priest took is offering(his body) that he has offers before God and took it in the Holy of the Holy before God throne in heaven.
it was accepted because his disciples received the comforter.and that's were the judgement of the world starts.Quote (Elizabeth @ Feb. 04 2010,08:51) Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 04 2010,01:08) Georg said: Quote So then after he died God forgave him his sins and resurrected him in his human body, is that the way you see it? I said that Jesus bore OUR sins. He had no sin of His own. You twist my words as you do the words of God.
thinker
thinkerI know Jesus had no sin of his own, but, by bearing our sins he became sin for us. He took on our sins, that freed us from our sins, but what about Jesus, how did he get rid of the sins to be bodily resurrected? Does not Paul say, “the wages of sin is death?”
That's what I want to know from you. I don't twist anybody's words, especially God's words I only quote them; is accusing me of doing that your way of avoiding my question?Georg
Georg,Again the problem is with the way you define the word “death.” Paul said that they were dead (past tense) and that they had received eternal life. Were they non-existent before they had received eternal life?
Jesus said,
“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. John 5:24
The one who believes Jesus' word passes from the state of death into the state of life. So we were 'dead” before we received eternal life. Therefore, death cannot mean “cease to exist.” It means that he is no longer JUDGED.
thinker
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 12 2010,07:53) Hi TT,
Did you think Jesus could not have resisted the will of his God?
He chose to die for you by his own free will.
Nick,Absolutely yes! Jesus died of His own free will. Was Isaiah better than Jesus? Isaiah was not forced to serve God! Isaiah offered his service saying, “Here I am, send me.” Again, was Isaiah more noble than Jesus?
In the garden Jesus had His chance to back out and He said, “Not My will but Thine be done.” If Jesus would have backed out the Father would have sent Him twelve legions of angels:
Or do you think that I cannot now pray to My Father, and He will provide Me with more than twelve legions of angels? Matthew 26:53
and,
“Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. 18 No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.” John 10:17-18
The Father loved the Son because He did not have to be forced to lay down His life. He layed His life down of Himself. The Father would have delivered Him if He had just asked.
thinker
Georg said:
Quote What do you think this power was that allowed Jesus to lay down his life and take it again? Georg,
What does it matter? If Jesus had the power to take His life again then He could not have ceased to exist. The problem is with YOUR definition of death.
If Jesus “ceased to exist” then He could not have taken His life again regardless of the source of His power.
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 17 2010,05:05) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 12 2010,07:53) Hi TT,
Did you think Jesus could not have resisted the will of his God?
He chose to die for you by his own free will.
Nick,Absolutely yes! Jesus died of His own free will. Was Isaiah better than Jesus? Isaiah was not forced to serve God! Isaiah offered his service saying, “Here I am, send me.” Again, was Isaiah more noble than Jesus?
In the garden Jesus had His chance to back out and He said, “Not My will but Thine be done.” If Jesus would have backed out the Father would have sent Him twelve legions of angels:
Or do you think that I cannot now pray to My Father, and He will provide Me with more than twelve legions of angels? Matthew 26:53
and,
“Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. 18 No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.” John 10:17-18
The Father loved the Son because He did not have to be forced to lay down His life. He layed His life down of Himself. The Father would have delivered Him if He had just asked.
thinker
Hi TT,
Yes he served his God unto death for your sake even despite his own will.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 17 2010,05:27) Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 17 2010,05:05) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 12 2010,07:53) Hi TT,
Did you think Jesus could not have resisted the will of his God?
He chose to die for you by his own free will.
Nick,Absolutely yes! Jesus died of His own free will. Was Isaiah better than Jesus? Isaiah was not forced to serve God! Isaiah offered his service saying, “Here I am, send me.” Again, was Isaiah more noble than Jesus?
In the garden Jesus had His chance to back out and He said, “Not My will but Thine be done.” If Jesus would have backed out the Father would have sent Him twelve legions of angels:
Or do you think that I cannot now pray to My Father, and He will provide Me with more than twelve legions of angels? Matthew 26:53
and,
“Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. 18 No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.” John 10:17-18
The Father loved the Son because He did not have to be forced to lay down His life. He layed His life down of Himself. The Father would have delivered Him if He had just asked.
thinker
Hi TT,
Yes he served his God unto death for your sake even despite his own will.
Agreed (I think)thinker
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