Who is yhwh?

[NickHassan]

Quote (liljon @ Aug. 31 2005,17:15)

John 1:1 says in the beginning was the word. The word was already in existence not created. John 1:3 refutes any speculation that he was Compare John 8:58 with LXX reading of  Psalm 90:2. Christ is Eternal

Hi liljon,
What does “the Beginning” mean to you? Retrospective timeless eternity? We do know that the Word was with God “in the beginning”.
That alone tells us he was not the God or part of the God he was with.
But it does not say he did not have a beginning does it? God has no beginning but the Son of God became a Son begotten of God.
He is “the firstborn of all creation”, “the beginning of the creation of God”.

[liljon]

Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation, (Emtv)
REV 3:14″To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:
These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God's creation.(NIV)
EVERYTHING THAT WAS MADE WAS MADE THROUGH HIM. He himself is not made but Eternal

John 8:58 58″I tell you the truth,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!” (NIV
Psalm 90:2 Before the mountains existed, and before the earth and the world were formed, even from age to age, You are God.

[NickHassan]

Quote (liljon @ Sep. 01 2005,20:49)

Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation, (Emtv) REV 3:14″To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:      These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God's creation.(NIV) EVERYTHING THAT WAS MADE WAS MADE THROUGH HIM. He himself is not made but Eternal John 8:58 58″I tell you the truth,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!” (NIV Psalm 90:2 Before the mountains existed, and before the earth and the world were formed, even from age to age, You are God.

Hi Liljon.
Yes everything was created by God through him.
So he is not the God that created through him.
He was begotten of that God.

[david]

Hey liljon, where the NIV has the word “ruler” at Rev 3:14, most other Bibles as far as I know have the word “beginning.” The Greek word is arkhe. For some reason, the translators of the NIV have translated “beginning” (Greek-arkhe) as “ruler.”

The same idea can be said for the Emtv at Col 1:15 and the us of the word “over” instead of the word “of.”

Just curious as to what Emtv says at Rev 3:14 and what NIV says at Col 1:15?

[liljon]

Isaiah 44:24 24 Thus says the Lord that redeems you, and who formed you from the womb: I am the Lord that performs all things; I stretched out the heaven alone, and established the earth.

YHWH created the Universe alone. Jesus is not the Father but he is YHWH.
Emtv beginning
Niv first born over

Jesus himself is not a creation Col 1:16 says all things came through him. He himself is not a thing (John 8:58)

[NickHassan]

Quote (liljon @ Sep. 02 2005,21:06)

Isaiah 44:24 24 Thus says the Lord that redeems you, and who formed you from the womb: I am the Lord that performs all things; I stretched out the heaven alone, and established the earth. YHWH created the Universe alone. Jesus is not the Father but he is YHWH. Emtv beginning Niv first born over Jesus himself is not a creation Col 1:16 says all things came through him. He himself is not a thing (John 8:58)

Hi liljon,
But the Word was with YHWH in the beginning. How can this be?

[david]

Liljon,

What is a father?

What is a son?

Use the dictionary if you have to.
I would really like to hear your responce to those questions.

How many fathers and sons have you met? thousands? Tens of thousands?
Now, how many of those fathers were the same age as their sons?
If Jehovah and Jesus are the same age, equal, why choose to be identified with such unequal misleading titles? They didn't have to have titles like that at all, did they?
Every father I've ever met testifies to the fact that fathers are older than their sons. Humans understand the relationship between father and son.

[liljon]

Jesus only became a son in a father-son relationship when he was born of a virgin.
Jesus IS ETERNAL Col 1:16, John 1:3, John 8:58

[NickHassan]

Hi liljon,
So was the Word WITH God prior to his birth as a man?

[david]

Jesus pointed to God as the Source of his life, saying, “I live because of the Father.” According to the context, this meant that his life resulted from or was caused by his Father, even as the gaining of life by dying men would result from their faith in Jesus’ ransom sacrifice.—Joh 6:56, 57.

[NickHassan]

Hi d,
Faith by itself is only the first step and does not save us.
Heb 11.6
“And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek him”
Heb 6.1f
” Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God..”
But faith without works of response is dead and useless faith.
James 1.22
” But prove yourselves doers of the Word, and not merely hearers who delude themselves”
James 2 20
“But are you willing, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?”
Lk 6.46
” Why do you call me Lord, Lord' and not do what I say?”

[david]

So, I've finally convinced you have I?

(that was a joke)
Half of these scriptures I've already quoted. And I've quoted them to show that if one has faith, you will also have works.

Right, so,
Faith WILL save us, BECAUSE it will move us to action.

Nick, I completely agree with what you said. It actually seems to me like you're now saying what I was saying and that makes it hard for me to disagree with.

[NickHassan]

Hi david,
The most important action is to receive salvation by being born again.

“seek ye first the Kingdom of God”

To do good works without salvation is sadly of no benefit to men. Salvation is in Jesus Christ and not our works.

[david]

Priests and clergy the world over lull the public into a false sense of security with their indiscriminate use of “born again” and “once saved, always saved” slogans and theology. Millions of people from nearly every religion and sect of Christendom have been led to believe that they are “born again” and “saved.”
Since you've time and again said you're not a fan of the religions of the world, and people claiming to be Christian when they're really not, how do we know who is born again and who is not.
I've met handfuls of people while going form door to door searching out deserving ones who have claimed to be “born again.” Mostly the conversation ends with them stating over and over again that Christ is Jehovah, and telling me they'll pray for me. Were these ones really “born again” nick?

How many of the people in the world that think they're born again, actually are?

[NickHassan]

Hi david,
It is wiser to check your own status before God before judging any others. Make sure you are secure in Jesus and then you really will have a message to bring others.

[david]

Nick,
It is wiser to check your own status before God before judging any others. Make sure you are secure in Jesus and then you really will have a message to bring others.

[NickHassan]

Hi david,
How do the JW's offer security in Jesus? In what way are they born again?

[NickHassan]

hi david,
When you have the Spirit you are able to recognise the Spirit in others and share understanding of the Word with others in the family of God.

[NickHassan]

Hi david,
The checks we are given in scripture that our names are written in the book of life[Lk 10.20,Phil 4.3,Rev 20.15etc]are shown in 1Jn 5.6-11 about Jesus. We can be sharers in his witnesses by being reborn into him by repentance, baptism in his name and the evidential work of the Holy Spirit given to us.[Eph 1.13-14,1Jn 3.24, 2Cor 1.23]

[david]

Just a scripture that I found that mentions loving God's name, and the fact that God requires something of us.
HEBREWS 6:10
“For God is not unrighteous so as to forget YOUR work and the love YOU showed for his name, in that YOU have ministered to the holy ones and continue ministering.”

[Author]

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