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In fact there is no excuse today for not seeing that Jesus Christ did what was reserved for God alone. None whatsoever.
The decision is yours utimatily.
Jesus Christ – A man of blasphemy for messing with God's Word or God himself.
Hi W,
Wake up. God was IN HIM! Of course the works of God were done through him!
Thomas recognised the contents of the Glorious container, Jesus of Nazareth, Son of the Living God.Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 11 2005,05:28) Hi W,
Wake up. God was IN HIM! Of course the works of God were done through him!
Thomas recognised the contents of the Glorious container, Jesus of Nazareth, Son of the Living God.
You need an awaking… To whom was Thomas speaking? Was he speaking to Jesus and in the same sentence speaking to God as well?Or was he speaking to Jesus Christ in the first half of his statement and then speaking to God and not Jesus Christ in the second half of his statement? That makes very very little sense!
To Jesus…
My LordOk Jesus you are being ignored now cause this part is for God…
and My God!
It is clear Thomas was speaking to Jesus the entire time!
Quote (WhiteMateria @ July 11 2005,05:11) So how exactly can you say that WhiteMateria? What we percieve is limited to what we can see and the way we think. I shall use a model which is not the thing itself yet it will give us some insight. It will show that we can see everything there is to see from our perspective and yet not have the full answer. This is for demonstration purposes only and not set in with Bible verses and reasoning. It is purely scientific! No doubt you have heard of the story of Flatland and Sphereland. To make a long story short a sphere living in the 3rd dimension tries to explain to a square living in the 2nd dimension all about a 3D world. The sphere tries to explain several things…
1. He can be just mere inches away from the square and observe him without being seen.
2. He can remove objects from a safe (another square) that is closed on all sides making them reappear outside the safe. What the square believes is that the sphere used teleportation but the sphere simply took the object out of the plane and back on it somewhere else.
3. The sphere passes his body through the plane to try to show how he has depth. At first the 'line' that the square sees gets bigger and bigger and then it gets smaller and smaller.It was not until the sphere pulls the square out of the plane that the square understands. Finally the square looks down where he onced lived and could even see the real shape and insides of his friends.
So as far as the trinity is explained comes a few things…
The true shape of man's image (who was created in the image of God) could be to us like the line the square saw. But to God its the shape of a square and everything inside it. Even the length and width of it. This would contribute to God being able to measure what is inside a man's heart.
God trying to explain to us what he is like through his Word but since we are not pulled out of our own world we are like that square. Unable to fully comprehend.
God tries to explain to us his depth by showing us phases of himself. Father, Son, Holy Spirit – As the square passed through sphereland the circle got bigger then smaller. Yet the circles retained the properties of circles and to some degree an idea of how the sphere is shaped. We might argue that each circle was a 'different' circle simply because one is bigger and another is smaller. But the sphere assures the square its all part of the same. In the same way Jesus and the Holy Spirit have many of the same qualities of God. Yet in some religions it is argued they cannot be the same simply because one is more important than the other like a bigger circle might mean more than a smaller one in flatland. Yet in order to have a sphere all the circles are required – Thus perhaps God's existance requires the different 'personalities' brought forth.
So sphere became circle in our likeness and image. But since the sphere already HAS knowledge of the 3D world its very easy for him to understand what lies in store for us. We as the flat 2D squares have not been to the 3D world. We must rely on the various weird occurances that happen to believe or not believe in higher power. Such as when the sphere took that object out of the box and made it appear elsewhere as if like magic. The Christian concept of this is miracles. Occurances we cannot explain (even though we try to) but cannot fully within our own science. That being the science of 2D thinking not knowing the properties of a 3D world.
10cm x 10cm = 100cm squared
Since depth does not exist in flatland we are missing a critical measured distance to complete such calculations in even trying to explain 3D.
10cm x 10cm x (10cm) = 1000cm cubed
() denotes the missing measurement needed.The same with miracles in that we are missing a critical law, measure, or 'something' that could make it perfectly possable within God's world.
Hi w,
Jesus is not an aspect of God.
He is the only begotten Son of God.
God is his Father.
They are in relationship with one another -as close a relationship as any two beings can be -yet they are two, united as one in purpose and will.Jhn 20:26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: [then] came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace [be] unto you.
Jhn 20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust [it] into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
Jhn 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
Jhn 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed [are] they that have not seen, and [yet] have believed.Quote (WhiteMateria @ July 11 2005,05:35) Jhn 20:26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: [then] came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace [be] unto you.
Jhn 20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust [it] into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
Jhn 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
Jhn 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed [are] they that have not seen, and [yet] have believed.
Who was Thomas speaking to Nick? The passage and verses are clear… Or do I have to pull up links to other translations of the Bible to show this in not just KJV but many others!So W,
Do you think all the things Jesus said about the Father and Him and their wonderful relationship should be cast aside because of your perception of the meaning of an exclamation of an apostle?Even if you were right we do not follow Thomas but Jesus, the Son of God surely?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 11 2005,05:38) So W,
Do you think all the things Jesus said about the Father and Him and their wonderful relationship should be cast aside because of your perception of the meaning of an exclamation of an apostle?Even if you were right we do not follow Thomas but Jesus, the Son of God surely?
It is not by this exclimation I make alone but also by what Jesus Christ did. Are you already forgetting the loads of stuff Jesus Christ did that only God could do alone? God would not allow someone else to do that stuff because then every Joe and Bob and Sally could look at God as a lier in his Word. Even a child could go against God on those grounds and win the arguement. Gee God why did you let someone else change your laws and stuff? Why should we follow that evil man Jesus Christ? This is exactly why Thomas figured it out and why we have to figure it out as well.Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 11 2005,05:35)
I said this was a model and not the thing itself that explains how we can gather all there is to gather and not see the entire picture.So that every knee will bend to him that is coming in the clouds… Hmmmm I guess on that day that 'someone else' will become for us 'a god'!
Hbr 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
Oh my goodness! These corrupt angels worsphipping that other than what is 'God'. Suddenly 'someone else' becomes 'a god'. What a fine example for the Word to show us!
Quote (WhiteMateria @ July 11 2005,05:46) Hbr 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. Oh my goodness! These corrupt angels worsphipping that other than what is 'God'. Suddenly 'someone else' becomes 'a god'. What a fine example for the Word to show us!
God's angels worshipping 'someone other' than God?Quote (WhiteMateria @ July 11 2005,05:41) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 11 2005,05:38) So W,
Do you think all the things Jesus said about the Father and Him and their wonderful relationship should be cast aside because of your perception of the meaning of an exclamation of an apostle?Even if you were right we do not follow Thomas but Jesus, the Son of God surely?
It is not by this exclimation I make alone but also by what Jesus Christ did. Are you already forgetting the loads of stuff Jesus Christ did that only God could do alone? God would not allow someone else to do that stuff because then every Joe and Bob and Sally could look at God as a lier in his Word. Even a child could go against God on those grounds and win the arguement. Gee God why did you let someone else change your laws and stuff? Why should we follow that evil man Jesus Christ? This is exactly why Thomas figured it out and why we have to figure it out as well.
Hi W,]
Who healed Tabitha and raised her from the dead? Who healed the man born lame, on the steps of the temple in Acts 3?Who healed the man Paul called out to stand up when he saw he had “the faith to be healed”?Did Peter and John and Paul do these things or did God in them? Why is Jesus any different?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 11 2005,05:49) Quote (WhiteMateria @ July 11 2005,05:41) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 11 2005,05:38) So W,
Do you think all the things Jesus said about the Father and Him and their wonderful relationship should be cast aside because of your perception of the meaning of an exclamation of an apostle?Even if you were right we do not follow Thomas but Jesus, the Son of God surely?
It is not by this exclimation I make alone but also by what Jesus Christ did. Are you already forgetting the loads of stuff Jesus Christ did that only God could do alone? God would not allow someone else to do that stuff because then every Joe and Bob and Sally could look at God as a lier in his Word. Even a child could go against God on those grounds and win the arguement. Gee God why did you let someone else change your laws and stuff? Why should we follow that evil man Jesus Christ? This is exactly why Thomas figured it out and why we have to figure it out as well.
Hi W,]
Who healed Tabitha and raised her from the dead? Who healed the man born lame, on the steps of the temple in Acts 3?Who healed the man Paul called out to stand up when he saw he had “the faith to be healed”?Did Peter and John and Paul do these things or did God in them? Why is Jesus any different?
Peter and John and Paul never did that which God alone could do.Hi W,
Acts 10.38
” You know Jesus of Nazareth , HOW GOD ANOINTED HIM WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT AND WITH POWER, and how he went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil; FOR GOD WAS WITH HIM”
So was Jesus working in his own power or that of God?Then answer me this.. Why do these angels worship someone other than God?
When you figure that out let me know… Do they have a valid reason for this worship? Does it make Jesus another 'god' when that happens? If I were to worship a stone or a rock would it not be in a sense 'another god'?
Hi,
I agree. God did it. But God chose a vessel to work through as He likes to do. He chose to do his work through His Son and then he continued that Work after the Son was risen through those who were in His Son.If you say Jesus did it in his own power you must also surely say Peter, John and Paul are also powerful gods.
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