Who is this Jesus?

Participant

Hi Tim2,
If that is so and you believe it why do you keep offering US new deities?

April 13, 2007 at 2:10 am#48804

Participant

Hi Nick,

You're the one who's offering a new deity, this other Jesus who has unexplained divine origins, who is the Word that was God but is no longer God. I'm proclaiming only one Deity, YHWH.

Tim

April 13, 2007 at 2:46 am#48808

Participant

Hi Tim2,
You have lost sight of the Son of God and yet it is he that you need to know to reach towards his God and father. WE do not worship other than the Father as Jesus told us true worshipers WORSHIP THE FATHER [jn 4] but you speak with the voice of a stranger to tell us there are now three deities.

April 13, 2007 at 3:57 am#48822

Participant

Right Nick, you don't worship Jesus, you just proskunein him and confess him as Lord and say, “To him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.” and say, “To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever.” Yeah, that's not worship at all.

April 13, 2007 at 4:11 am#48823

Participant

Hi Tim2,
Why would you rebel against the Lord?
Why would you worship him when he says true worshipers worship the Father?
Do you know better?

April 13, 2007 at 11:50 am#48849

Adam Pastor

Participant

Quote (Tim2 @ April 13 2007,01:41)

Come on, the Bible does give us an answer. There is no God besides YHWH. Either Jesus is YHWH or he is no god at all.

Hmmm! True there is no Almighty, co-equal Capital G God besides YHWH!

However consider this …
According to YHWH's words was Moses 'god' in some sense? Exo 4.16, 7.1

According to YHWH's words which cannot be broken! … were His judges called 'gods'? [Psa 82.6, John 10.34-35, Exo 21.6, 22.8-9,28]

If in all honesty you realize that the above answers are YES!
Then especially in light of the fact of how Jesus the Messiah himself used Psalms 82 (John 10:34-35);
you will then realize that Jesus the Messiah indeed can be 'god' (without contradiction with the Isaiah verses);
just as Moses and the judges before him could legitimately & scripturally be called god/elohim without contradiction!

The Messiah is GOD's viceregent, GOD's fully authorized plenipotentiary.
In that sense, he can indeed be called god … hence John 20.28

It's all about context!

April 13, 2007 at 1:40 pm#48851

kenrch

Participant

2Co 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

April 13, 2007 at 6:11 pm#48868

Participant

Adam,

That might make sense if Jesus were only a man. But no one on this forum believes that. Do you?

Tim

April 13, 2007 at 6:17 pm#48870

Participant

Hi Tim2,
If Jesus was not a man you have no hope.
His origins are another matter but he penetrated our weak and temporal reality to take us with him into everlasting reality.

April 13, 2007 at 6:23 pm#48871

Participant

Hi Tim2,
The visit of Christ also sealed the fate of all either way. Gods established righteousness as relating only to our response to the Son. Failure to discern who he is and what his mission means is to sign our own death warrant. We must love him as we love God if we love God.

Jn3
14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

20For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

21But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

April 13, 2007 at 7:02 pm#48874

Participant

Nick,

I said if he were ONLY a man. Stop misquoting me.

Tim

April 13, 2007 at 8:51 pm#48878

Participant

Quote (TimothyVI @ April 13 2007,10:13)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 13 2007,08:10)

So how can “A” god be part of the True God?

Hi WorshippingJesus,

Any old “a god” can't. For there were many gods.
But you seem to keep forgetting that Jesus was the only begotten son of the true God. So He has to have some part of God in Him.

Tim

Of course but he is either true God or he is not God at all or it would be Polytheism and break the first commandment!

April 13, 2007 at 8:53 pm#48879

Participant

Quote (TimothyVI @ April 13 2007,10:54)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 13 2007,08:10)

And if Jesus is “A” God then we have two Gods, a smaller god and a greater God.

Hi worshiippingJesus,

well, if you want to throw out Mat 1:23, I suppose we do not have a smaller God do we?

Mat 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Tim

No we dont, we have what it says “God with us” not “a smaller god with us”.

April 13, 2007 at 8:54 pm#48880

Participant

Quote (TimothyVI @ April 13 2007,10:58)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 13 2007,08:05)

So the Father believed in polytheism?

Hi worshipping,

I don't know. He is the one that gave all of the power to Jesus.

Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Tim

You dont know if God is a Polytheist?

April 13, 2007 at 8:56 pm#48881

942767

Participant

Quote (Tim2 @ April 14 2007,06:11)

Adam,

That might make sense if Jesus were only a man. But no one on this forum believes that. Do you?

Tim

Hi Tim2:

I know that your question is directed to Adam Pastor, but of course, Jesus is only a man. It is his spirit that was formed through obedience to the Word of God that is God. God made man in his own image, and so we, also, that is our spirit is being formed as we learn apply the Word of God in our daily lives.

1Jo 3:2
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

God Bless

April 13, 2007 at 9:57 pm#48884

Not3in1

Participant

WJ writes:
Of course but he is either true God or he is not God at all or it would be Polytheism and break the first commandment!
*******************

Of course I disagree with you, WJ. Jesus is God's Son………..so of course he is a part of his Father. He is divine. Not God. Remember Mary? Does anyone here give Mary any credit for contributing to her own son? Good grief! This is spoken from a women, of course!

April 13, 2007 at 10:36 pm#48887

Participant

Quote (Not3in1 @ April 14 2007,09:57)

WJ writes:
Of course but he is either true God or he is not God at all or it would be Polytheism and break the first commandment!
*******************

Not3in1

Do you see anywhere in my post about him being divine.

I said he is either God or his is not God at all.

So why are you disagreeing?

Does divine to you mean he is God?

What does divine mean to you?

April 14, 2007 at 5:07 am#48915

Not3in1

Participant

WJ, I disagreed because to say that Jesus “is not God at all” is not true. While I believe that Jesus is not, himself, God Almighty – I do believe that he is the beloved (literal) Son of that One God Almighty. And because he is God's Son……he is part his Father. Just like you, are part of your Father and your Mother.

Therefore, divine means to me that Jesus is both the Son of God, and the Son of Man. He is a divine man.

Put another way: God/God = God. Man/Women = Man. God/Women = Divine Man.

Please…….we cannot forget about Mary and what she contributed!!!! If God just wanted “a body” he could have picked anyone already alive to incarnate. God wanted a Son. A true Son.

God so loved the world that he came himself? No, that doesn't sound right. God so loved the world that he sent his Son. The Love of God is not that he came to dwell among us himself, but that he sent his Son.

1 John 4: 9,10
This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him. This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins.

A plan. A conception. A pregnancy. A birth. A Son. This is the plain and simple truth according to the gospels.

April 14, 2007 at 6:06 am#48922

Participant

94,

You think Jesus is just a man? Obviously I disagree. But I'll add that to the belief statements I've been working on. Feel free to edit. What do you think the Spirit is?

Not3, I really don't see where you're getting this, “Jesus wasn't a person prior to his human birth. Now he's some hybrid god/man.” The Scripture asserts that he is a man (1 Timothy 2:5), that he's flesh (Romans 1:3). And there's absolutely no indication that Jesus wasn't a person before his human birth. You're reading way too much into this Word = plan train of thought. Jesus says, before Abraham was, “I AM.” Abraham was born before Jesus. So before Abraham, we can say of Jesus, “HE IS.” Meaning He's a person then. And Paul asserts His pre-personality in Philippians 2:6. “He did not consider equality with God something to be grasped.” If this is what's holding you back from Trinitarianism, I've got to urge you to stop wandering and come back to the flock, please.

Tim

April 14, 2007 at 6:28 am#48928