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I would also like to point out that I have had both the Father and the Son speak to me. The difference for me was as follows:
Jesus spoke to me in my room one night. His presence filled the room and I was scared at first, but I bowed down and he spoke to me without words. He spoke to me about times in my life where his hand was present. Then he told me through each painful experience, treasure was placed in my heart. He then showed me my future and filled me with hope where there was previously despair.
The Father spoke to me in a vision. Again I heard no words. His language was vision. Rather than talk to a visible being, he surrounded me with vision and spoke to me through it, and bathed me in his love an experience I will never forget as long as I live. When the vision came to an end, he spoke to me with words, but not verbally. He has done this on a number of occasions, but not to the extent of that vision.
Good point Tony M. While I had heard that before, I hadn’t really thought about it till you said it.
T8…..ANOTHER POINT BROTHER IS THIS Luk 2:52… “And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men.”
If he preexisted how could he increase in wisdom and favor with GOD. IF God created EVERYTHING THROUGH him, how could he increase in favor with GOD, how could you get in more favor WITH GOD, IF HE CREATED EVERY THING THROUGH YOU?
Peace and love to you and yours. …………gene
God is invisible and is Spirit.
Hi t8.
According to 1st Corinthians 12.3, ‘Jesus is Lord’, and there is only one spirit. According to 2 Corinthians 3.17-18, ‘The Lord is the Spirit’. How do you answer that Jesus is the Lord, the Lord is the Spirit, and there is only one spirit? Just wondering.
Thanks for sharing t8,
I also experienced Jesus in vision standing in front of me during a distressing time several years ago. I heard him speak to my mind.The most amazing experience I had was after that. I call that God, and it wasn’t here, and there were no words, only my own thoughts, and love indescribable.
Sounds like we have had similar experiences mila. As for the Lord being the Spirit, that is what I believe.
God is Spirit and he is the Father. The difference is not a different being, but one is ‘who God is’ and the other is ‘what God is’.
I also think of the sun. It is the centre of our planetary system and has a location, but it rays bathe the planets.
I put on sunblock to block the sun, even though the sun is millions of kilometres away.
Likewise, God is the centre of all. By his own spirit he can fill his own creation.
Clearly we are taught that there is one God the Father. And that God is spirit. And that there is one spirit, called the Spirit of God.
As for LORD and Lord. LORD is what translators put in the place of YHWH. I think this causes confusion myself.
Jesus as Lord is the Greek word kurios.
The conclusion is God (YHWH/LORD) made Jesus both Lord and Christ.
LORD and Lord are not directly related.
Personally I think that translators should have used YHWH instead of LORD.
And as for the word ‘Lord’. There are many lords as scripture says. We have a landlord if we rent our house. But there is one who is Lord over all (except God), that is Jesus Christ. It is like how the Pharaoh made Joseph to be lord over his kingdom.
According to Wikipedia, Lord is an appellation for a person or deity who has authority, control, or power over others; a master, chief, or ruler.
As we know, there are different levels of rulers and chiefs. But there is one God over all. And one Lord through whom all things came who is above all, except God.
Gene, you post belongs in a different topic. I have answered you there:
Tony M.
This was my thinking that first got me to question the trinity. If Jesus was God then how could he have been tempted by Satan because no matter what test Satan brought against him there would be no way that he could’ve given in to temptation. That would make it no actual test at all.
That is where some Trinitarians invent the idea that there are two Jesus’. One is Jesus the human being and the other is Jesus the God. It is also a broken teaching so I have no idea why they bother.
Your point in not broken.
But was Christ really tempted by the father of lies? or did Satan just attempt to tempt him? and this was only orchestrated for our instruction?
Hi t8,
The Spirit is described by Paul as being like this: “the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God. For who knows a person’s thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.”
The spirit of a PERSON is a part of that person and is NOT a separate being. Jesus is called the spirit of God, (1 Cor 12, 1-13 and 2 Corinthians 3.17-18).
I like your analogy of the sun.
Yes t8, we have experienced similar. I had my experiences trampled unexpectedly (not on a forum, though online), so beware of that if you have not experienced that already.
AndrewAd,
But was Christ really tempted by the father of lies? or did Satan just attempt to tempt him? and this was only orchestrated for our instruction?
He was really tempted and for our benefit for he later said:
John 16:33Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.
Another witness from Scripture says.
Hebrews 4:15Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
Jesus came to save humanity not the angels or God.
AndrewAD,
He saves those humans that will be saved because he himself is human and so revealed that by faith a human being can do all that is right despite being tempted by evil.
AndrewAD…..He whole example of Jesus was to demonstrate what God the Father’s spirit can do with a human being, and it is the exact same as he did with Jesus, the christ of God. Why would God deminstrate this with anyone otherthen a pure human being. We must allcome to the measure and “FULL “STATURE of Christ Jesus, just s it says. And again, just as JESUS said, “whosoever overcomes “EVEN AS I HAVE” . Why did hesay “even” as i have? That ties him in to one of us human being , and likeushe had to overcome also,just as he said we must, so it begs the question, howdid he overcome , was it not through the power of GOD , WHO WAS “IN” HIM. THE SAME APPLIES YO US ALSO.
Satans lie is tomake Jesus appear different then we are, why because that destorys the hope of ever becomming exactly like him. So hecreated a tea hing that moves JESUS AWAY FROM OR EXACT IDENITY WITH HIM. He canged the “IMAGE” OF THE MAN JESUS, INTO THE IMAGE OF A GOD. WHICH BREAKES THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD AND TURNS JESUS’ IMAGE INTO A MAN OF SIN. That is exactly what Paul was talking about in 2 Ths 2.
This teaching seperates Jesus from his brother’s and sisters, I call it the, “DOCTRINE OF SEPERATION” , it was Satan effort to make people think Jesus was different the we are, because he knew it would cause people to not believe they could overcome exactly as Jesus did and have the exact same relationship with God the Father as he did. This “DOCTRINE OF SEPERATION” sole purpose is to move Jesus “AWAY” from his human roots and begining, IT DESTORTS OUR IMAGE OF HIM, it make Jesus appear to exist before his existence on this earth, it is a LIE. NEARELY ALL CHRSTANITY HAS COME TO BELIEVE THE “LIE”.
You do not have to fall for it, come out of those false teachings and identify yourself as a actual human brother OF JESUS IN THE FAMILY OF GOD, AND A JOINT HEIR WITH HIM, IN THAT SAME FAMILY. He is the “firstborn” of “MANY” , brothers and sisters in the famly of God.
peace and love to you and yours. …………….gene
Dear Gene,
I feel for what you say,but what if I were to tell you that I was born of a virgin and have never committed a sin. Would you believe me? Why not ? Maybe you were born of a virgin and have never sinned either but the devil makes you think you have but is lying.Is that possible?
Do you think original sin is a true doctrine? or virgin birth a true doctrine? If so then your doctrine of separation is true and Jesus really isn’t like us.
Have you ever had a sinful thought but you didn’t act on it? was it a sin that you had a sinful thought? Did Jesus ever have a sinful thought? If not then how was he ever tempted in all ways like us?
Doesn’t it say somewhere that Jesus was separate from sinners? if this is true then is he separate from us ? Has anyone ever sinned after becoming a Christian? or never sinned after becoming a Christian? is it possible to sin or not after becoming a Christian? Does the prayer God have mercy on me a sinner apply to a Christian or maybe that’s blasphemy for a Christian to pray?
AndrewaAD,
It does not say that Jesus is separate from sinners but rather that he came to save sinners.
Not all Christians follow the true gospel nor are those that do all fully mature in Christ.
Those that are fully mature have learned how to live by the Spirit and not by flesh at all times.
AndrewAD………You must beconfused, i am saying, the DOCTRINE OF SEPERATION, IS A FALSE TEACHING, THAT JESUS IS A GOD, and preexisted his berth, that is what seperats Jesus from his human idenity. You need to read 2 Ths 2 with that in mind and see if it fits what Paul was saying. Im not saying JESUS IS ACTUALLY SEPERATED FROM HUMANITY, what i am saying is that the “teaching” of him being a God and preexisting his berth on this earth , was designed by SATAN himself to cause people to think Jesus was not truley a human being who came into existence at the time of his berth on this earth. It was designed to cause people to think that, so they could not truley relate or identify with him as a fellow human being. It was very cleverly designed and it’s effect is devastating, it makes Jesus appear to break the commandment of God “though shall have no other God besides me”.
Jesus himself never broke that comandment, saying, “for thou are the “only” true God”, but that fasle teaching turns the our perception of him or “image” of him being another God, into a man of sin. There is no actual man of sin that Paul was talking about, but a false “IMAGE” about Jesus that transforms our perception of him into a man of sin.
peace and love to you and yours. …………….gene
AndrewAD,
It does not say that Jesus is separate from sinners but rather that he came to save sinners.
Two corrections.
1) Sorry about missing that mistype and so misspelling your name.
2) My memory is poor and the search I did of the NET may have failed so I may be wrong. If you know of such a passage please give its address and the English language version. Thank you.
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