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Allow me to bring this thread back to the original three questions.
Was Christ born before creation?
No! Christ was born 2000 years ago (probably in 4 B.C.?) The prophetic record of the Old Testament and the record of the birth of Christ in the New Testament is so overwhelming that there is no justification to even ask such a question.Was Christ Eternal?
The answer is yes and no; allows me to explain. Jesus Christ was not eternal for Jesus Christ was begotten and born 2000 years ago. However, John 1:1 tells us that: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” So, the Word of God was God, not “a” God but “the” God, and since “the” God was eternal, His Word was eternal also.
Then John 1:14 tells us that the WORD of God BECAME flesh – BECAME the SON of God. In other words, Jesus as the WORD of GOD was eternal, but Jesus as the SON of GOD was not.Was Jesus Divine or Human? or Both?
I will answer this question from the standpoint that Jesus was begotten of God and born of Mary 2000 years ago. “Now the birth of Jesus Christ took place in this way. When his mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child of the Holy Spirit.” God impregnated Mary through the power of His Holy Spirit and His WORD (seed, sperm) became His SON (John 1:14). So, from the point of conception, Jesus was a divinely, BEGOTTEN being. Nine month later He became a BORN human being. In other words, for 33 ½ years Jesus was a BORN human being but only a BEGOTTEN divine being. As such He was able to sin and to die. He lived, He suffered, He did not sin, and He died. After three days and three nights in the grave (as prove that He was the prophesied Messiah), God resurrected Him, now BORN AGAIN, never able to die again. Jesus while on earth was not FULLY human and FULLY divine, as a popular, but false teaching claims. He was however BOTH human and divine, and if the Spirit of God dwells in you, then you are also BOTH human and divine.
http://www.logoslogic.info/NatureofGod.htmllogolo
you make Christ and God a liar,and this is impossible says the scriptures so it must you in your explanation.
if you can bring forth scriptures to justify your views and at the same time not braking any of the remaining scriptures ,I will accept your views as truth.
IF YOU CAN NOT DO THAT YOU ARE BUT A DREAMER.Logologic,
What if Word in John 1:1 means word?
I assure you at one time God's word became “heaven and earth” as well as many other things because when God speaks things happen.
Quote (logoslogic @ Mar. 13 2010,16:12) Allow me to bring this thread back to the original three questions. Was Christ born before creation?
No! Christ was born 2000 years ago (probably in 4 B.C.?) The prophetic record of the Old Testament and the record of the birth of Christ in the New Testament is so overwhelming that there is no justification to even ask such a question.Was Christ Eternal?
The answer is yes and no; allows me to explain. Jesus Christ was not eternal for Jesus Christ was begotten and born 2000 years ago. However, John 1:1 tells us that: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” So, the Word of God was God, not “a” God but “the” God, and since “the” God was eternal, His Word was eternal also.
Then John 1:14 tells us that the WORD of God BECAME flesh – BECAME the SON of God. In other words, Jesus as the WORD of GOD was eternal, but Jesus as the SON of GOD was not.Was Jesus Divine or Human? or Both?
I will answer this question from the standpoint that Jesus was begotten of God and born of Mary 2000 years ago. “Now the birth of Jesus Christ took place in this way. When his mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child of the Holy Spirit.” God impregnated Mary through the power of His Holy Spirit and His WORD (seed, sperm) became His SON (John 1:14). So, from the point of conception, Jesus was a divinely, BEGOTTEN being. Nine month later He became a BORN human being. In other words, for 33 ½ years Jesus was a BORN human being but only a BEGOTTEN divine being. As such He was able to sin and to die. He lived, He suffered, He did not sin, and He died. After three days and three nights in the grave (as prove that He was the prophesied Messiah), God resurrected Him, now BORN AGAIN, never able to die again. Jesus while on earth was not FULLY human and FULLY divine, as a popular, but false teaching claims. He was however BOTH human and divine, and if the Spirit of God dwells in you, then you are also BOTH human and divine.
http://www.logoslogic.info/NatureofGod.html
Hi and welcome LO,
Death was not rebirth for Jesus.
To become a son of God you must be reborn of God's Spirit.
Jesus was filled with the Spirit of his Father God at the jordan and we follow him.Hi Logic,
For Jesus to atone for the sin of Adan he had to be a FULLY sinless man.Jesus ALWAYS claimed that the miracles he performed, the Forgiveness of Sin and the Words that he spoke were the all FROM his Father, God Almighty, Jehovah God, YHWH, the one [and ONLY] True God, who gave him the Power and Authority.
Jesus walked on the water – was that because he was [a] God or Divine?
What then when Peter also walked on the water, albeit for a very short time. Was Peter then [a] God or divine for a few moments?Logic, how do justify your claim of Jesus being Divine and yet able ti die? Were there separate parts of Jesus, one part Divine and another part Man?
That would hardly be fair if Jesus was showing Mankind that they, too, can live by the word of God and His Holy Spirit. A bit like a rich man dressed in [designer rags] walking amongst the poor and telling them that they will gain richness if they endure their poor status now!
Basically, Jesus had to completely LOSE all his rich status with the Only Possibility of gaining it back by Completely living according to the Word of God, his Father and then dying an excrusiating death (Remember that it was not an ordinary death. A sinful soul is deserving death and, indeed, without external divine intervention, avoid it.
A sinless soul could not die unless God removed support for the spirit within, which is why Jesus cried out 'My God, My God, why have you foresaken me?' at this point his soul was subject to death and then he gave up his spirit, meaning death)Logic,
My post above, thus dovetails in with Nicks.Jesus was then reborn, brought back to life, by means of the Holy Spirit of God making Him 'pre-eminent' in being the 'First' to be reborn by the Holy Spirit alone, and the 'Last' (the Only…) also, the 'Beginning' [of God's creation,] and [He will bring it to] the 'End'.
All,
1 John 4:2-3 says:”By this you know the Spirit of God: Every Spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come 'in the Flesh' is of God,
And every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And is the spirit of the Anti-Christ…”To 'come in the flesh' excludes the possibility of a Divine nature co-existing with flesh.
Quote (JustAskin @ Mar. 14 2010,01:53) All, 1 John 4:2-3 says:”By this you know the Spirit of God: Every Spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come 'in the Flesh' is of God,
And every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And is the spirit of the Anti-Christ…”To 'come in the flesh' excludes the possibility of a Divine nature co-existing with flesh.
JAadding Jesus could not have come from man seed because men is born in sin,
and there for men could not supply the sacrifice required by God for the live of Adam,so it is the WORD of God who came in the form of flesh to give the price,
it is God who give us all salvation,this is why he is our savior.
but he as given some of that glory to Christ,but there is only one God and one Son.Kerwin,
Yes, in John 1:1 “Word” (implying a person) does actually mean “word” (the spoken word of God).
Nevertheless, as a rule, I capitalize “Word” because in addition to its meaning of the “spoken word” of God, it also says that the “Word was God,” i.e., the meaning of the word “Word” is for both “IT the spoken word” and for “HE God, Yahweh Elohim.”In addition, I capitalize “Word” because in John 1:14 IT the “Word” BECAME “flesh,” became HE, “Jesus the Christ.”
Quote (JustAskin @ Mar. 14 2010,01:53) All, To 'come in the flesh' excludes the possibility of a Divine nature co-existing with flesh.
JustAskin,Allow me to comment on your above statement.
All flesh, from conception/birth, comes with an evil spiritual nature. Thats why Jesus said: “You must be born again” in order to change your evil nature to divine nature.
Jesus was the only exception in that He came from the point of conception/birth with a divine nature.
Please consider my article entitled: The “Double Nature” of Jesus Christ available at: http://www.logoslogic.info/doublenature.html
Hi LO,
God was in Christ.[2Cor5.19]
No double nature.God can be in you too[Eph3.19]
You would not be partly God would you?Hi LO,
Jesus was the son of man.
Mary was his real mother and scripture calls him a man.
You have adopted the theologies of men instead of relying on what is writtenTerraricca wrote:
Quote adding Jesus could not have come from man seed because men is born in sin,
I did a search of born and sin in the New International and King James versions of scripture and did not find anything to support this statement. Perhaps you meant to write something about mankind being subject to the spirit of this world. Jesus is obviously an exception to that rule and the only reason I know why he is an exception is because God has mercy on whom he has mercy and compassion on who he has compassion. That may not satisfy some but who am I to question God as he measures out his grace as he chooses and not as I choose and he is just.
Scripture clearly states that Jesus did come from man’s seed. There are two genealogies that make that point though one is his by adoption and the other one tracts his heritage all the way back through Adam to God who created all mankind.
logologic.
The definition you chose for “divine” is not consistent with monotheism. There are other definitions that are consistent.
Quote (logoslogic @ Mar. 14 2010,08:25) Quote (JustAskin @ Mar. 14 2010,01:53) All, To 'come in the flesh' excludes the possibility of a Divine nature co-existing with flesh.
JustAskin,Allow me to comment on your above statement.
All flesh, from conception/birth, comes with an evil spiritual nature. Thats why Jesus said: “You must be born again” in order to change your evil nature to divine nature.
Jesus was the only exception in that He came from the point of conception/birth with a divine nature.
Please consider my article entitled: The “Double Nature” of Jesus Christ available at: http://www.logoslogic.info/doublenature.html
LOGOits seems that many like to teach ,but not according to the truth,
those teachers like to excel in knowledge but with there understanding not Gods understanding.twisting,stretching,cutting,and so on the word of God.
this they do because the truth is not easy accepted ,so they watered to the hears of the listeners,
this is not my view at all.
Kerwin,
Jesus' seed comes in the line of David from Mary parentage, his mother. Joseph 'adopted' Jesus as his son and became his father (Joseph begot Jesus).
Although adopting Jesus would have been enough to secure Jesus as a 'son [in the line] of David', Joseph himself was also a 'son [in the line] of David', albeit a weaker line than Mary's.Compare carefully the genealogies written by of Matthew and Luke.
Logic,
I think your comment that Jesus was born with a divine spirit is faulty. You are obviously ignoring the major part of what I wrote:
“Jesus HAD TO BE FULLY MAN WITH A SINLESS SOUL” in order to atone for the Sins of Mankind. Only by this means could salvation be purchased by his Blood.The Spirit doesn't 'die' – it is the Soul that dies. The Soul [body and mind] dies when the Spirit is removed from it – like removing the power/battery energy source from a computer – the 'Energy[ser]' doesn't 'die' – it is the computer that ceases to function but which can be revived by applying energy/Spirit to it again.
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