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Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 02 2010,14:02) Hi KW,
Earth survives by the recirculation of matter.
Flesh is in bondage to physical needs.
Do you think heaven is the same?
God supplies the needs of those in heaven.It is possible that we will still eat and drink as Adam and Eve did in the Garden.
I have not ruled out that in many ways things may once more return to what they were in the Garden before The Fall.
The last I know of it the Garden yet remains. Perhaps the flood destroyed it but perhaps God merely hides it from our sight like he his the angel from Balaam's.
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 02 2010,20:28) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 02 2010,14:11) Hi KW,
I believe earth and the visible universe is the odd one out in God's creation.
I believe the heavenly realms and those who dwell there are not of physical matter or flesh.What do others think?
I am not sure that heaven and earth are seperate realities so much as parts of a whole. Mind you there is supposed to be more than one heaven so I might be speaking of a certain heaven while there are those that are seperate realities.According to Jesus it sounds like one can enter the kindom of heaven while remaining on earth and thus be in both places at once.
On the other hand Jesus ascended to heaven on his death and Paul spoke of a man who was snatched into heaven.
In the later case Paul did not know if the man was in the flesh or spirit at that time which demonstrates that Paul believed flesh could enter the kingdom of heaven.
2 Corinthians 12:2(KJV) reads:
Quote I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
Hi KW,
The head of the body of Christ is in heaven while his body is on earth conjoined by the living Spirit of God. That is how you can be said to be in heaven[Col2]. Paul's uncertainty shows he felt as though he was in heaven and perhaps he was there in spirit but it seems unlikely that his body left earth and returned.God's home is the highest or third heaven.
Hi KW,
The garden was not in heaven but on earth.
Anything is possible as we lack knowledge but the invisible creation is unlikely to include needy flesh IMO.kw
WE HAVE TO BECOME ONE WITH Christ AND SO WE WILL BE ONE WITH God ,BUT God IS SPIRIT
SO IT MEANS THAT ALL OF CREATION AT THE END WILL BE IN ACORED WITH GOD AND HIS WILL,AND HAVE IN THIS WAY ONE SPIRIT, THE SPIRIT OF THE FATHER.THIS IS HOW ALL HIS FROM GOD AND BY GOD.Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 02 2010,20:14) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 02 2010,14:20) Hi KW,
Heb 1 says angels are ministering spirits, seemingly alike to God Who is spirit.
Do you agree or are they of their nature flesh beings in your opinion?
You do realize that spirits can have flesh don't you?According to the Merrium Webster dictionary that would be “a person having a character or disposition of a specified nature”.
Angels would fit that bill in that particular scripture as the specified nature would “ministering”.
I believe you would do better to use demons as an example of your point.
I believe they also have flesh but I would have to do some researh to test that hypothosis.
Hi KW,
So you do accept that angels ARE spirits[heb1] that can on earth, at God's command, apparently have the nature of flesh?Do you think they would have a visible flesh nature in heaven?
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote God's home is the highest or third heaven.
I am not sure how you equate the third heaven to the highest heaven but I do know that the Scriptures do declare:
Psalms 115:16(KJV) reads:
Quote The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD's: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.
And
Deuteronomy 10:14(KJV) reads:
Quote Behold, the heaven and the heaven of heavens is the LORD's thy God, the earth also, with all that therein is.
As to his presence it is written:
2 Chronicles 2:6(KJV) reads:
Quote But who is able to build him an house, seeing the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain him? who am I then, that I should build him an house, save only to burn sacrifice before him?
And
Psalms 139(KJV) reads:
Quote Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there. If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea; Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me.
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote The garden was not in heaven but on earth.
Matthew 5:5(KJV) reads:
Quote Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth. The kingdom of Heaven will include earth on that day as it did in the beginning.
We will be able to journey to the third heaven which is also part of the kingdom of heaven. I state that because we currently can since a man of Paul’s time did and was possibly in his body at that time.
Nick Hassan wrote:Quote So you do accept that angels ARE spirits[heb1] that can on earth, at God's command, apparently have the nature of flesh?
No. I believe even demons have flesh but I can see how people may conclude they do not. Demons may not be fallen angels.
Hi KW,
So because Paul might have we all will??
The meek shall inherit the earth.God is present as Spirit everywhere except in the hearts of rebels.
That does not state we can go everywhere does it?KW
if Christ has said that we have to become one with him like he is with his father ,is this not means that at first we were not one with him ,and so have to become one with him ,
but how his someone become then one with Christ and God
Terraricca wrote:
Quote WE HAVE TO BECOME ONE WITH Christ AND SO WE WILL BE ONE WITH God ,BUT God IS SPIRIT
We become one with Jesus and God when we walk according to the ways of the Spirit of righteousness even while we are in the flesh of this world. In this way God’s divine nature manifests in us as it does also in Jesus.
That is why we are called to be righteous as God is righteous.
Terraricca wrote:
Quote if Christ has said that we have to become one with him like he is with his father ,is this not means that at first we were not one with him ,and so have to become one with him ,
If we walk according to the ways of this world and the flesh of this world, which is to say the spirit of this world, then we are not one with God.
Ephesians 2:2(NIV) reads:
Quote in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote The meek shall inherit the earth.
Anyone who walks according to the spirit of righteousness is meek. Galatians 5:23(KJV)
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote So because Paul might have we all will??
Maybe not the exact same third heaven since the old will pass away and the new will come but I see no reason God would prevent perfected human beings from entering if since he allowed one who was not yet perfected to do so. Still, God is the one that calls the shots.
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote God is present as Spirit everywhere except in the hearts of rebels.
That is why I say God is everywhere.
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote That does not state we can go everywhere does it?
I do not understand where you got this point from and so I am unable to answer it.
If you are speaking of Psalms 139 then the individual claims that wherever he went God was there. Perhaps he went to all those places in the flesh, or in the spirit but I have not.
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 03 2010,16:22) Terraricca wrote: Quote WE HAVE TO BECOME ONE WITH Christ AND SO WE WILL BE ONE WITH God ,BUT God IS SPIRIT
We become one with Jesus and God when we walk according to the ways of the Spirit of righteousness even while we are in the flesh of this world. In this way God’s divine nature manifests in us as it does also in Jesus.
That is why we are called to be righteous as God is righteous.
Terraricca wrote:
Quote if Christ has said that we have to become one with him like he is with his father ,is this not means that at first we were not one with him ,and so have to become one with him ,
If we walk according to the ways of this world and the flesh of this world, which is to say the spirit of this world, then we are not one with God.
Ephesians 2:2(NIV) reads:
Quote in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.
KWso the difference between having God spirit and not having it is the applying of his laws in our hearths and do his will,and make his word the treasure of our lives,and with all this God will help us through the knowledge and faith in his word,know his living word can work in us ,and we will be full of light ,not darkness ,because God is light.
do you understand this
Terraricca,
I understand that those who live by the spirit of righteousness do not sin and sin is darkness. In God there is no darkness and so those that continue to sin are not in him.
I also know that you live by the spirit through faith in God and thus his words therefore you must believe God when he spoke though his Righteous one to promise that those that hunger and thirst for righteousness will be filled.
I see no reason you cannot call the spirit of righteousness God's living word as long as you realize it is not a written code and that you receive and live by it through obedience to all of Jesus' teachings.
Hi KW,
Really?
Then how do you explain Jas 5.15-16 and 1Jn1.8-9, 5.16-17?The Spirit does not lead men to sin but learning to follow the Spirit is a slow process during which we often stumble.
Nick Hassan,
If you sin you are not living by the spirit of righteousness but your sins can still be forgiven and you cleansed of unrighteousness so that you will stop sinning. In this way we pursue the goal of being righteous even as God is righteous having confidence that God is with us in our efforts.
Even when we are living by the spirit of righteousness and not sinning we have the nature of sin and we must deny that. We also must not deny any sins we commit but instead we must confess them.
It is also known that we have all sinned in the past and so fall short of the glory of God.
I believe I covered all that seems relevant in the scriptures you mention.
Hi KW,
Are you always aware of your sin?Praise God he chooses to ignore our many imperfections.[Ps32]
If we judge not we will not be judged
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 04 2010,07:40) Hi KW,
Are you always aware of your sin?Praise God he chooses to ignore our many imperfections.[Ps32]
If we judge not we will not be judged
Scripture explicidly states the one who continues to sin is of the devil.1 John 3:1-9(KJV) reads:
Quote Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
About judging those in the church it is taught.
1 Corinthians 5:12(KJV) reads:
Quote For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
Hi KW,
If you prefer to judge yourself rather than leave it to God then who can advise you?1 Jn 3.19f
What is the significant sin to God?
Jn16.9
Nick Hassan wote:
Quote If you prefer to judge yourself rather than leave it to God then who can advise you?
You seem to have missed the message Jesus taught since he instructs his students to judge themselves that they not be judged by God.
Luke 12:15(KJV) reads:
Quote And he said unto them, Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth.
And
Luke 12:35(KJV) reads:
Quote “Be dressed ready for service and keep your lamps burning,
And
Luke 17:3(KJV) reads:
Quote Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.
Then Paul teaches:
Romans 6:1(KJV) reads:
Quote Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.
And
1 Timothy 4:16(KJV) reads:
Quote Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.
The final judgment is in the hands of God and God is just and so the righteous will inherit the kingdom of heaven.
1 John 3:19 is a like all verses of scripture a powerful scripture but the idea it expresses in part is expressed more fully in versus 20-24 and ends with a call that we live according to the Spirit of righteousness than lives in us through faith Jesus is the promised one of God.
It is true that that John 16:9 is correct that those that believe in Jesus will turn away from all their sins while those who love sin do not believe in him even if they claim he is their Lord. This is why Jesus also states in verse 33, “but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.”
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