Who is this Jesus?

[NickHassan]

Hi KW,
God is spirit.
His angels are spirits serving the saved.[Heb1]

So where did you get this idea that all living beings are of flesh?

[Elizabeth]

Nick! I have a question, because I was reading the first few pages of this tread were t8 is making posts. I have always been under the impression that if Jesus would be deity or divine, He would not have been able to die for us. Divine IMO means immortality, does it not? So if Jesus would have been devine then He wouldn't have been able to die for us…
Irene

[NickHassan]

Hi Irene,
No doubt he was a man. He called himself the son of Man[Adam]
He died as men do on the cross and his own spirit left him as it does with men[Mt27.50]

Since arguments as to his origin, which can be seen in several ways, do not add to thse facts then I have decided to leave them and concentrate on the manhood of the one we follow

[NickHassan]

Hi KW,
What will we be like after we are raised?
1Jn3.1-3

[kerwin]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 01 2010,03:24)

Hi KW, You say “I agree that God has no flesh but then he has no body as he is everywhere.”   God IS in heaven. Jesus told us to pray TO HIM there.[Mt6] But He manifests by His Spirit within creation and within those who are reborn from above and is close to all men[Acts17]…so not quite everywhere.

'For in him we live and move and have our being.' As some of your own poets have said, 'We are his offspring.'

I was thinking of Acts 17:28 when I wrote those words.

Acts 17:28(KJV) reads:

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For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

I am assuming the same statement is true of all of creation which means God is everywhere.

Elsewhere scripture states God dwelling place is heaven.  It also states heaven is his throne and earth his footstool.  Perhaps we misunderstand what and/or where heaven is.

Luke 17:20-21(KJV) reads:

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And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

I believe the “within” would be better translated to as amongst.

It is something to be contemplated, studied, and prayed about.

[kerwin]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 01 2010,03:28)

Hi KW, God is spirit. His angels are spirits serving the saved.[Heb1] So where did you get this idea that all living beings are of flesh?

Before I answer your question how do you get the idea that living beings do not have to be flesh.

As to the answer a soul is considered living and a ghost is a soul without flesh and yet called the dead.  

It is called dead because the flesh is dead.

Adam was only called a living soul when his flesh became animated by his soul.

Genisis 2:7 reads:

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And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

[kerwin]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 02 2010,08:42)

Hi KW, What will we be like after we are raised? 1Jn3.1-3

John is talking spiritually and not physically as he is calling his students to be righteous as God is righteous.

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 01 2010,03:18)

Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 01 2010,08:01) Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 01 2010,02:14) KW just remember that somewhere in the scripture about balaam and barak ,the prophet donkey could speak but the prophet could not see the angel, was that a transparent flesh body We see what the Lord lets us see.   The angel was obviously not a phantasm as the donkey was wise enough to fear the sword he saw and stove to avoid the angel in every way she could until the angel blocked he path. In verse 31 we are told the the Lord opened Balaam's eyes and he finally saw the angel who was there all the time. KW did he really saw the angel or was it an illusion ,did the angel materialize in front of the prophet can that be done out of flesh a angel as a body but i would not say it is flesh,but it is a heavenly spiritual body ,or sort of.?

All can state is that the donkey behaved as if the angel has a physical presence and when Balaam finally saw the angel he to acted as if the angel was there.

In verse 31 of the account the words are God opened Balaams eyes so it seems clear that the angel was there but invisiable to Balaam.

I believe a similar happening occured with Paul on the road to Damascus where he witnessed certain things while his companions eyes were blinded to them.

We also see a similar occurance when Jesus meant 2 of his students on the road after his resurection as they saw and heard him but were prevented from reconizing him by God.

[NickHassan]

Hi KW,
Is your view of heaven just like earth filled with flesh beings except God?
Flesh contaminates by it's nature.

[kerwin]

Nick Hassan wrote:

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Flesh contaminates by it's nature.

So according to you the Garden of Eden was contaminated before Adam sinned.  What Gnostic/Neo-Platoism nonsense.

Psalms 115:16(KJV) reads:

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The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD's: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.

And thus when Adam sinned creation became subject to corruption and will be freed by Jesus the Anointed.

Romans 8:21(KJV) reads:

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Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

[NickHassan]

Hi KW,
Earth survives by the recirculation of matter.
Flesh is in bondage to physical needs.
Do you think heaven is the same?

[NickHassan]

Hi KW,
Why are you so dependant on earthly views of heavenly things?

[NickHassan]

Hi KW,
When God decided to make men like US and you agree He is Spirit and not flesh do you think the others He spoke of were flesh angels?

[NickHassan]

Hi KW,
I believe earth and the visible universe is the odd one out in God's creation.
I believe the heavenly realms and those who dwell there are not of physical matter or flesh.

What do others think?

[NickHassan]

Hi KW,
Heb 1 says angels are ministering spirits, seemingly alike to God Who is spirit.
Do you agree or are they of their nature flesh beings in your opinion?

[kerwin]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 02 2010,14:04)

Hi KW, Why are you so dependant on earthly views of heavenly things?

I pointed out what scripture states about earth and you are merely making Gnostic/Neoplatoisic statements.

The later are the worldly views of heavenly things.

What is corrupted in the matterial world is corrupted by Adams choice to sin and not because God chose to create it that way.

[kerwin]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 02 2010,14:20)

Hi KW, Heb 1 says angels are ministering spirits, seemingly alike to God Who is spirit. Do you agree or are they of their nature flesh beings in your opinion?

You do realize that spirits can have flesh don't you?

According to the Merrium Webster dictionary that would be “a person having a character or disposition of a specified nature”.

Angels would fit that bill in that particular scripture as the specified nature would “ministering”.

I believe you would do better to use demons as an example of your point.  

I believe they also have flesh but I would have to do some researh to test that hypothosis.

[NickHassan]

Hi KW,

You are right of course that the original creation of God was very good in His words.

The rebellion of Adam and his obesience to Satan brought curses on the earth and it's produce and inhabitants described in Gen 3.14-19.
Later God shortened as well the natural lifespan of lawless human vessels, shown in Gen 6.

But none of this now degenerating physical creation is characteristic of heavenly creation.
Flesh cannot inherit the kingdom as it is a state that we are to be rescued from.

[NickHassan]

Hi KW,
Scripture speaks of Jesus 'during the days of his flesh'
But you think those days continue for all forever??

[kerwin]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 02 2010,14:11)

Hi KW, I believe earth and the visible universe is the odd one out in God's creation. I believe the heavenly realms and those who dwell there are not of physical matter or flesh. What do others think?

I am not sure that heaven and earth are seperate realities so much as parts of a whole.  Mind you there is supposed to be more than one heaven so I might be speaking of a certain heaven while there are those that are seperate realities.

According to Jesus it sounds like one can enter the kindom of heaven while remaining on earth and thus be in both places at once.

On the other hand Jesus ascended to heaven on his death and Paul spoke of a man who was snatched into heaven.

In the later case Paul did not know if the man was in the flesh or spirit at that time which demonstrates that Paul believed flesh could enter the kingdom of heaven.

2 Corinthians 12:2(KJV) reads:

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I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.

[Author]

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