Who is the eighth king?

[Texas]

Who is the eighth King? From where did he spring?

While writing an article on this subject, believing that I had a good comprehension of this subject; I learned, after typing ninteen pages, that my reasoning was incorrect. I had typed ninteen pages for absolutely nothing. Had I not have taken all that time to do that, though, I might have never learned the real truth of the matter, as I did! Daniel, the Prophet, was the one who revealed to me what I had been missing. It was staring me in the face all the time, yet I wasn't seeing it, as I typed my article. It wasn't until I reached the end of my article, that I saw my error, because, my final conclusion, simply didn't jell with the real truth of the matter. I will go on now, to explain what I'm driving at: As I read through the Prophecy of Daniel, I came across, what it was, that I'd been overlooking. That was this:

Daniel 7:20 (The Message)
19-22 “But I wanted to know more. I was curious about the fourth animal, the one so different from the others, the hideous monster with the iron teeth and the bronze claws, gulping down what it ripped to pieces and trampling the leftovers into the dirt. And I wanted to know about the ten horns on its head and the OTHER HORN THAT SPROUTED UP while three of the original horns were removed. This NEW HORN had eyes and a BIG MOUTH and spoke arrogantly, DOMINATING {Bigger Than} the other horns. I watched as THIS HORN WAS MAKING WAR ON GOD'S HOLY PEOPLE and getting the best of them. But then The Old One {Ancient of Days} intervened and decided things in favor of the people of the High God. In the end, God's holy people took over the kingdom. “

I suddenly realised that this OTHER HORN THAT SPROUTED UP, was, in fact, the eighth King, spoken about by John in the Revelation account. Then, I learned, that, this, other Horn had been in among the Ten Horns. As follows:
Daniel 7:8 (New American Standard Bible)
8″While I was contemplating the horns, behold, another horn, a little one, came up AMONG THEM, and three of the first horns were pulled out by the roots before it; and behold, this horn possessed eyes like the eyes of a man and a mouth uttering great boasts.”

The Apostle John had told us this about, this eighth King:
Revelation 17:11 (New American Standard Bible)
11 “The beast which was and is not, is himself also an eighth and is one of the seven, and he goes to destruction.”

So, then, while this little Horn was in among the Ten Horns, not holding any power as ruling Kings as yet; it could well be said; he Was, and, WAS NOT. The fact being, these Ten Horns as yet, had not received, offices as Kings, as yet, themselves. That was to come later, as I will show. That still doesn't explain the fatal head-wound, though, does it? So, they cannot be the one John was making reference to, can they?
Revelation 17:12 (New American Standard Bible)
12 “The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have NOT YET RECEIVED A KINGDOM THEY DO RECEIVE AUTHORITY AS KINGS FOR ONE HOUR WITH THE WILD BEAST.”Daniel 7:8 (New American Standard Bible) I believe that we're still waiting for this to occur! Is that not correct?
8″While I was contemplating the horns, behold, another horn, a little one, came up AMONG THEM, and three of the first horns were pulled out by the roots before it; and behold, this horn possessed eyes like the eyes of a man and a mouth uttering great boasts.”

So, we see, that these Ten Horns are Ten Kings, to begin with; so they WAS, and since they had not, as yet received a Kingdom; they WAS NOT! Then John tells us, that they do receive authority as Kings with the Beast for one hour, they would all come to be again. For only a short space of time, though. So, when this little horn rises up from among them, he rises as the eighth King, since he's received Kingship from the wild Beast, along with all the rest of the Horns he's in association with.

As I read on through Daniel, I learned, that this little horn was the one on the scene, persecuting the worshippers of Jehovah, just immediately prior to the Ancient of days taking his seat in the heavenly courts, when the Books were opened. I learned also that he would be the one to go off into destruction as John foretold, the eighth King would do. That fact makes this little Horn, the eighth King, who sprang from the seven.

Some might wonder how a little horn could get away with what he gets away with. Daniel supplies the answer to that:
Daniel 7:20 (New International Reader's Version)
20 “I also wanted to know about the ten horns on its head. And I wanted to know about the other horn that It appeared to be STRONGER THAN THE OTHERS. It had eyes. And its mouth was always bragging.” So, this little horn is no push-over, being as he is stronger than the other nine.
Daniel 7:8 (The Message)
8 “As I was staring at the horns and trying to figure out what they meant, ANOTHER HORN sprouted up, A LITTLE HORN. Three of the original horns were pulled out to make room for it. There were human eyes in this little horn, and a big mouth speaking arrogantly.”
Daniel next reveals, something of the attitude displayed by this little horn, in these words:
Daniel 7:11 (New American Standard Bible)
11″Then I kept looking because of the sound of the boastful words which the horn was speaking; I kept looking until the beast was slain, and its body was destroyed and given to the burning fire.” So, this horn is somewhat of a braggart, to say the least. He's even more than that:
Daniel 7:23-25 (New American Standard Bible)
23″Thus he said: 'The fourth beast will be a fourth kingdom on the earth, which will be different from all the other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth and tread it down and crush it.
24'As for the ten horns, out of this kingdom ten kings will arise; and ANOTHER WILL ARISE AFTER THEM, and he will be DIFFERENT from the previous ones and will subdue three kings.
25'He will speak out against the Most High and wear down the saints of the Highest One, and he will intend to MAKE ALTERATIONS IN TIMES AND IN LAW; {Revelation 13:16,17} and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time.” John Foretold, this one who would speak out against the Most High, in these following words:

5 “There was given to him a mouth speaking arrogant words and blasphemies, and authority to act for forty-two months was given to him.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemies against God, to blaspheme His name and His tabernacle, that is, those who dwell in heaven.
7 It was also given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them, and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him.
8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been “
Revelation 13:5-8 (N.A.S.B.)
Daniel also mentioned, this war with the Saints:
21″I kept looking, and that horn was waging war with the saints and overpowering them.” Daniel 7:11,20,21 (N.A.S.B.)
8 “The Beast had a loud mouth, boastful and blasphemous. It could do anything it wanted for forty-two months. It yelled blasphemies against God, blasphemed his Name, blasphemed his Church, especially those already dwelling with God in Heaven. It was permitted to make war on God's holy people and conquer them. It held absolute sway over all tribes and peoples, tongues and races. Everyone on earth whose name was not written from the world's foundation in the slaughtered Lamb's Book of Life will worship the Beast.”
(MSG) {Revelation 13:5,6}

So both John and Daniel was in complete harmony here, as we can readily see. Both foretold, the spoken blasphemies against Jehovah God. Both foretold, that, this horn would make war on the Holy ones. Both foretold the changes in Time and in law.
Daniel 7:11 (The Message)
11-13 “I kept watching. The little horn was speaking a
rrogantly. Then, as I watched, the monster was killed and its body cremated in a roaring fire. The other animals lived on for a limited time, but they didn't really do anything, had no power to rule. My dream continued. “

This little horn was a loud-mouthed arrogant blasphemer, and Jehovah, sitting in his heavenly court, was noting all of this ones behavior, and actions, as he sat as the highest judge in his heavenly court. That is the time period that Daniel's prophecy in Daniel 2:44 would be fulfilled. It would 'crush and put an end to all of these Kingdoms, and it itself would stand till time indefinite to time indefinite.'

That's as far as I was able to get with this subject! Personally, I don't believe that anyone would know just who this HEAD is that received the fatal head-wound, and yet revived. This head who WAS, and then, WAS NOT, and then would come to be again. Hitler's Nazi-Germany was the first to receive their fatal head-wound- Japan, was another, then Italy was one other. How, do we tell the difference between them all, because, they, all three could take that seat. Could they not? Confusing, or what? This is where I'll have to leave it. At least for now, anyway. Texas!

[Cindy]

Texas

This is an old subject, and this was my answer then.

Group: Regular Members
Posts: 1159
Joined: Jan. 2009  Posted: May 02 2009,14:25  

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Texas

Rev 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.  

John received this revelation in the first century, he was living under the king “that is”, Rome; the five that are fallen were, the Greeks, the Medo-Persian, the Babylonians, the Assyrians, and the Egyptians. They represent the empires that tried to rule the world, or, “one world government”.
After the western half of the Roman empire fell, 565 AD, there was no more a “one world government”.
Many attempts were made by the new kings of Europe to bring that about, but all failed.
Near the end of the first WW, 1918, The nations got together and formed the seventh beast, the “League of Nation”, to prevent future wars; it failed in its mission, and by 1946 it was gone; but already a new beast had been formed, not really a new beast, it had changed in name only, it became the “United Nation”, and yes, it too will go in perdition; very soon now.
The ten horns are all the nations that belong to it.

Rev 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.  
Rev 17:13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.  

Ten is not a number of ten individuals, it is the number of completion, or all included.

You also speak of the little horn.

Dan 7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.  
Dan 7:8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.  

You know the beast in verse 7 is Rome, and the ten horns are all the kings and emperors that would rule Rome during its entire existence.
The fact that the little horn came up on the Roman beast, shows that it had its beginning during the Roman empire. This little horn made war with the saints for 1260 days/years, it is in fact the Antichrist. He began to rule when the western half of the empire fell, 565 AD.
The three horns that were uprooted, were the three barbarian kings that conquered and ruled Roman territory for a while, but were in the end defeated; the Vandals. the Heruli, and the Ostrogoth.    

Georg

PS. why don't you and I talk about this subject?

By the way, the head that received the deadly wound was Rome, in 476 AD, and in 553 AD the deadly wound was healed.

[Texas]

Quote (Cindy @ June 04 2009,06:54)

Texas This is an old subject, and this was my answer then. Group: Regular Members Posts: 1159 Joined: Jan. 2009  Posted: May 02 2009,14:25   ——————————————————————————– Texas Rev 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.   John received this revelation in the first century, he was living under the king “that is”, Rome; the five that are fallen were, the Greeks, the Medo-Persian, the Babylonians, the Assyrians, and the Egyptians. They represent the empires that tried to rule the world, or, “one world government”. After the western half of the Roman empire fell, 565 AD, there was no more a “one world government”. Many attempts were made by the new kings of Europe to bring that about, but all failed. Near the end of the first WW, 1918, The nations got together and formed the seventh beast, the “League of Nation”, to prevent future wars; it failed in its mission, and by 1946 it was gone; but already a new beast had been formed, not really a new beast, it had changed in name only, it became the “United Nation”, and yes, it too will go in perdition; very soon now. The ten horns are all the nations that belong to it. Rev 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.   Rev 17:13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.   Ten is not a number of ten individuals, it is the number of completion, or all included. You also speak of the little horn. Dan 7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.   Dan 7:8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.   You know the beast in verse 7 is Rome, and the ten horns are all the kings and emperors that would rule Rome during its entire existence. The fact that the little horn came up on the Roman beast, shows that it had its beginning during the Roman empire. This little horn made war with the saints for 1260 days/years, it is in fact the Antichrist. He began to rule when the western half of the empire fell, 565 AD. The three horns that were uprooted, were the three barbarian kings that conquered and ruled Roman territory for a while, but were in the end defeated; the Vandals. the Heruli, and the Ostrogoth.     Georg PS. why don't you and I talk about this subject? By the way, the head that received the deadly wound was Rome, in 476 AD, and in 553 AD the deadly wound was healed.

Georg!
When I put that article on the Board, it was not my intention to brag about the knowledge I did possess on that suject, as you seem to enjoy doing. My ninteen page article that I didn't put on the Board, had everything you stated here, plus a whole lot more. In that article, to be perfectly honest with you, I was doing my own share of bragging. I could well afford to do that too, because, it seems I've forgotten more about that subject than you will ever learn in your lifetime. Truth be told, I don't enjoy a braggart myself, so why should I stoop to the level of actually being one myself, just so as to show this Board how much I really do know about this subject, as you do?

No Georg! I simply focused on scripture, and I allowed the Bible to do my talking for me as it should be Georg! One thing I did gain from all of this, is, it gave me the opportunity to compile everything I did know about that subject, in one article, long as it was, or is. Now, when I do need it, I'll be able to draw on it, as I need it. That, alone, if nothing else, is of benefit to me, in this case, to me alone, because, being, in the end, it didn't fully harmonize with the truth of the Bible; well, in that case, I would, never, knowing that it didn't, put it on the Board, anyway, knowing, that you, loving as you do, to pick apart everything I say. I wouldn't knowingly give you opportunity to do that now would I Georg?

Anyway Georg, you can continue on believing and teaching as you will; conversely I will continue to do likewise! Have a great day Georg! Texas!

[Texas]

Quote (Cindy @ June 04 2009,06:54)

Texas This is an old subject, and this was my answer then. Group: Regular Members Posts: 1159 Joined: Jan. 2009  Posted: May 02 2009,14:25   ——————————————————————————– Texas Rev 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.   John received this revelation in the first century, he was living under the king “that is”, Rome; the five that are fallen were, the Greeks, the Medo-Persian, the Babylonians, the Assyrians, and the Egyptians. They represent the empires that tried to rule the world, or, “one world government”. After the western half of the Roman empire fell, 565 AD, there was no more a “one world government”. Many attempts were made by the new kings of Europe to bring that about, but all failed. Near the end of the first WW, 1918, The nations got together and formed the seventh beast, the “League of Nation”, to prevent future wars; it failed in its mission, and by 1946 it was gone; but already a new beast had been formed, not really a new beast, it had changed in name only, it became the “United Nation”, and yes, it too will go in perdition; very soon now. The ten horns are all the nations that belong to it. Rev 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.   Rev 17:13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.   Ten is not a number of ten individuals, it is the number of completion, or all included. You also speak of the little horn. Dan 7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.   Dan 7:8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.   You know the beast in verse 7 is Rome, and the ten horns are all the kings and emperors that would rule Rome during its entire existence. The fact that the little horn came up on the Roman beast, shows that it had its beginning during the Roman empire. This little horn made war with the saints for 1260 days/years, it is in fact the Antichrist. He began to rule when the western half of the empire fell, 565 AD. The three horns that were uprooted, were the three barbarian kings that conquered and ruled Roman territory for a while, but were in the end defeated; the Vandals. the Heruli, and the Ostrogoth.     Georg PS. why don't you and I talk about this subject? By the way, the head that received the deadly wound was Rome, in 476 AD, and in 553 AD the deadly wound was healed.

Oh! and by the way Georg.

The Beast, that received the deadly head wound, could not possibly have been Rome; in that the Revelation given to John was talking about things to occur shortly, as that verse puts it. In that case Georg, it had to be one of the HEADS that existed in our own day. It couldn't have been anything else according to the words of Jesus to John. So, brighten up Georg, brighten up! Texas!

[Cindy]

Texas

It is one of the seven heads on the beast in Rev. 13:1 that received the deadly wound, tell me, who or what do these seven heads represent?
What is the meaning of the ten horns, and the ten crowns?

Georg

[Texas]

Quote (Cindy @ June 04 2009,10:25)

Texas It is one of the seven heads on the beast in Rev. 13:1 that received the deadly wound, tell me, who or what do these seven heads represent? What is the meaning of the ten horns, and the ten crowns? Georg

Georg!
I would like you to look at something, that you just might find very interesting. As you're looking, let me direct some questions at you about these verses concerning this one who received this head-wound yet was healed.

First off ,as you already know, this Beast with the Ten horns and seven heads, is first in line, as you already know that these seven heads are seven ruling dynasties of Kings in their continuing forms, from Egypt- Assyria-Babylon-Medo-Persia-Greece- Rome- British-American. Don't forget too, that there are, to date, 192 Nations that have received admission to the United Nations. Pictured by the Ten Horns.

As for the, Lion, Bear, and Leopard! These picture the sucessive Kingdoms of Babylon-Medo-Persia- and Greece occupied today, by, Iran, Iraq, and Syria/Lebanon. Just as a side-point here, both Daniel, as well as John in the Revelation account foretold these exact same four Beast. Look closely at both accounts, and you will see the only difference is, they are presented in reverse order. The reason being, of course, is because Daniel was looking forward in time, while John was looking backwards in time.

Now, Georg! Can you, after reading, the following, with everything that I have capitilized, still tell me, that the one with the head-wound was Rome? Did Rome rule this entire Planet? Did it hold absolute sway over every tribe, peoples and tongues? Everyone on earth? Did they force all the earth to receive this mark on their foreheads or on their right hand? Lets face the facts Georg! No! They didn't! Was everyone in the days of the Romans not able to buy or sell lacking those marks? Was those laws installed at that time? No! Is the proper answer to those questions. So! No! Georg, Rome, wasn't the head, that received that fatal wound. Not at all, they wasn't!

The Beast from the Sea
1-2 “And the Dragon stood on the shore of the sea. I saw a Beast rising from the sea. It had ten horns and seven heads—on each horn a crown, and each head inscribed with a blasphemous name. The Beast I saw looked like a leopard with bear paws and a lion's mouth. The Dragon turned over its power to it, its throne and great authority.
3-4 One of the Beast's heads looked as if it had been struck a deathblow, and then healed. The whole earth was agog, gaping at the Beast. They worshiped the Dragon who gave the Beast authority, and they worshiped the Beast, exclaiming, “There's never been anything like the Beast! No one would dare go to war with the Beast!”
5-8 The Beast had a loud mouth, boastful and blasphemous. It could do anything it wanted for forty-two months. It yelled blasphemies against God, blasphemed his Name, blasphemed his Church, especially those already dwelling with God in Heaven. It was permitted to make war on God's holy people and conquer them. It held ABSOLUTE SWAY OVER ALL TRIBES AND POEOPLES TONGUES AND RACES. EVERYONE ON EARTH whose name was not written from the world's foundation in the slaughtered Lamb's Book of Life will worship the Beast.
9-10 Are you listening to this? They've made their bed; now they must lie in it. Anyone marked for prison goes straight to prison; anyone pulling a sword goes down by the sword. Meanwhile, God's holy people passionately and faithfully stand their ground.”

The Beast from Under the Ground
11-12 I saw another Beast rising out of the ground. It had two horns like a lamb but sounded like a dragon when it spoke. It was A PUPPET, MADE EARTH AND EVERYONE IN IT worship the first Beast, which had been healed of its deathblow.
13-17 This second Beast worked magical signs, dazzling people by making fire come down from Heaven. It used the magic it got from the Beast to dupe earth dwellers, getting them to make an image of the Beast that received the deathblow and lived. It was able to animate the image of the Beast so that it talked, and then arrange that ANYONE NOT WORSHIPPING THE BEAST WOULD BE KILLED. It forced ALL PEOPLE, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to have a mark on the right hand or forehead. Without the mark of the name of the Beast or the number of its name, it was impossible to buy or sell anything.
18 Solve a riddle: Put your heads together and figure out the meaning of the number of the Beast. It's a human number: 666.”

These two-horned Beasts, had a demonic message to bear, concerning the changing of times and law, as Daniel predicted, by telling everyone, that without these marks displayed, no one would be able to buy or sell anything. So, as Daniel predicted, the Times had changed! The Law had changed! Now there was new laws to deal with, that was demonic in nature. Times now was different!That's why they spoke as a dragon, although themselves having a lamb-like appearance, that I suppose would mislead everyone, when they first arrived on the scene. So, everyone would easily be taken in by them. As they will be, when it actually does occur. To their sorrow! {Daniel 7:25} Texas!

[Cindy]

Texas

I can tell by the way you write, you were upset again; I can also tell that you're using the JWs bible, so let me go through the scriptures you gave, and explain what they mean.
You were correct with six of the seven heads on the beast, “British-America” is not one of them, head number seven was the “League of Nation”, it only lasted from 1918 – 1946, a short while, out of it came head number eight, the “United Nation”. It had only changed in name, that's why the bible says, the eightst is of the seven.
The fact that the beast in Rev. 13:1 was made up of the previous three beasts, is only to emphasize that this beast, Rome, was as bad as the three before it put together. Thar's what you read in Daniel.

Dan 7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.

Then you ask.
“”Did Rome rule this entire Planet?””
At one time Rome almost did, but that has nothing to do with what you go on describing.

“”Did it hold absolute sway over every tribe, peoples and tongues? Everyone on earth? Did they force all the earth to receive this mark on their foreheads or on their right hand? Lets face the facts Georg! No! They didn't! Was everyone in the days of the Romans not able to buy or sell lacking those marks? Was those laws installed at that time? No! Is the proper answer to those questions. So! No! Georg, Rome, wasn't the head, that received that fatal wound. Not at all, they wasn't!””

You are right, Rome has nothing to do with all of that, but the other beast does, the one that came out of the earth (people).

Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

You see, this beast (ruler) is Antichrist, he tried to appear as the Lamb of God (Jesus) by calling himself “Vicar of the son of God”, but what he spoke, his doctrines, were of the Devil.

You say, the head that was wounded could not be Rome, let me show you.

Rev 17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

These seven heads represent the same seven empires as in Rev. 13:1.
Then John is told this.

Rev 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

When John received this revelation, he was under the rule of the one “that is”, Rome.
Now, it would not have made any sense to suggest that one of the five that were fallen, had received the deadly wound. And since we have identified head number seven, there is only head number six, Rome, that could have been wounded to death.
That deadly wound was inflicted in 476 AD by the Heruli (barbarians), when they deposed the western emperor, Romulus Augustulus. The wound was healed in 553 AD by Justinian, when he reconquered Rome.

The rest of the scriptures you put up, have mostly to do with Antichrist; so for now I will stop, and wait for more questions.

Georg

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