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Hi KW,
The old earth is for burning.You have not answered whether the torn physical body of dust is all you hope for when Jesus returns?
Hi KW,
Do your really value logic above the work of the Spirit in revealing truth by Scriptural support[2Cor13.1]?Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 25 2010,17:06) Terrarica, I can merely speculate on the nature of angels based on a few scriptures that tell of them. About the spiritual body I know little but by definition a body has flesh. All I know about the spiritual flesh is that it is immortal. Like you I assume that mankind will have flesh just like the angels do. It is possible that the angels can change shape and that humans will be able to do that as well.
Still, though we may resemble angels I do not believe we will become angels.
I also believe that there will be a new heaven and a new earth but I do not know if or how they will resemble the current ones. I do know they will not be subject to corruption as is currently the case.
In Hebrews 1:5 and other scriptures the writer strives to teach us that Jesus is not an angel.
Hebrews 1:5(NIV) reads:
Quote For to which of the angels did God ever say,
“You are my Son;
today I have become your Father? Or again,Isn’t your belief in contradiction to that teaching?
Hi KW,
By whose definition are bodies flesh?
Even 1 Cor 15 speaks of heavenly bodies like the sun and moon..Flesh??Hi KW,
The resurrection of Jesus was like to that of Jonas who returned to his body after going to Hades.
It is not like to the first resurrection as the old body will be planted so that an new and imperishable one rises.
We should not be confused by the miraculous appearances Jesus made in that old body as it was shown to be perishable.Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote You have not answered whether the torn physical body of dust is all you hope for when Jesus returns?
I beg your pardon but I did answer it. I stated that it is up to God what he chooses to do and what he chooses is righteous.
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote Do your really value logic above the work of the Spirit in revealing truth by Scriptural support [2Cor13.1]?
How do you base your logic on godly principals without the being led by God?
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote By whose definition is all bodies flesh?
Even 1 Cor 15 speaks of heavenly bodies like the sun and moon..Flesh??You are correct that they have a surface but that surface is not referred to as flesh. I believe that is because they are not living creatures.
Since you address 1 Corinthians 15 it also states “all flesh is not the same” in verse 39 when explaining the difference between the “natural” body and the “spiritual “body.
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote We should not be confused by the miraculous appearances Jesus made in that old body as it was shown to be perishable.
If it was perishable then why did his mortal wounds not kill him all over again? Do you believe he was a zombie?
Hi KW,
Indeed all flesh is not the same but neither is all that lives of flesh.
Flesh is of the creation from the dust of earth.God and His angels are not of earth or flesh.
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote Flesh is of the creation from the dust of earth.
Is it not written that there will be a new earth?
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote God and His angels are not of earth or flesh.
It is written than God is spirit while it is also written that the angels had flesh when visiting Lot as Lot was able to touch them.
I do not believe God has either a body or flesh as we live and have our being in him.
Hi KW,
Indeed it is.
Do you really think angels are always of human type flesh or are they given such a garb when serving God on earth?Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote Do you really think angels are always of human type flesh or are they given such a garb when serving God on earth?
If I told you then it would be mere speculation on my part. I will point out that there appear to be different types of angels since the cherubim appear different other angels and that difference is evident in their appearance if only because they have wings. The ones that appeared to Lot looked like human beings and the one that appeared in the burning bush was not described though I believe it appeared to be part of the bush.
I want you to notice that we do not see angels when they are present unless God wants us to. I conclude this through logical reasoning from the account of Baalam and his donkey.
That is how scripture is with angels giving a detail here and there that you must connect to get what little of the puzzle that God has given us.
I want to point out that the account of the angels that appeared to Lot has at least two items in common with the account of Jesus in the room of his students after his resurrection. The first is that both Jesus and the angels could be touched and the second is that both Jesus and the angels ate food. Since you know angels can do this with spiritual flesh then why do you doubt that Jesus could also do these things with spiritual flesh?
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote So God does not have created flesh but angels in heaven do??
God is the creator and angels are created. I believe the later though scripture does not speak of angels being created. I do not know what they were created of if anything since God can make something from nothing.
Hi KW,
So you imagine heaven to be filled with beings that need regular feeding of earthly food and all the requirements associated with such mortal earthly bodies?Amazing!
There is no doubt that angels can appear as human and scripture even labels them as such at times.[Ez]
Hi KW,
I think it is pretty plain that Jesus was showing his brothers that the body they saw after his death was the same one he died in.Nick……..With our new Bodies even if they contain flesh and bone, who says we need food to keep them alive You can not deny Angles and Jesus after his resurrection ate food . Jesus even went through a Door with that body, and appeared and disappeared with it. You cant say that GOD can not create a Body that can do all these thing and Have eternal life in it to. Remember Jesus is still described as a Man when He returns to earth, so it is not unlikely he will have a body of some kind and it will eat and drink with His disciples , He said he would. Our physical bodies are not that Bad if they were in Perfect shape and had renewed energy. We still could do and enjoy many things that GOD has created for Us. IMO
Hi KW,
Jesus contrasted his body with a spirit in Lk24.36 f and said spirits do not have flesh and bones as he had. He then ate the fish.What do you make of this?
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote So you imagine heaven to be filled with beings that need regular feeding of earthly food and all the requirements associated with such mortal earthly bodies?
I have no idea though I do know that Adam and Eve ate food before they sinned and at that time their flesh was immortal. I do know that angels can eat if they choose to do so.
You continue to think like a Gnostic whose false teaching infiltrated the teachings of the Christians sects so long ago. It is not flesh that is corrupt but the desires of mankind who lives according to the ways of the spirit of this world. That sin has caused our flesh to subject to death and thus mortal but that is not how God created it.
Revelations 21:1(KJV) reads:
Quote And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
I will state this that since a new earth without a sea will be created it makes sense that we will have flesh though not sinful desires as the time of those will be past and we will live by the spirit of righteousness.
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote Jesus contrasted his body with a spirit in Lk24.36 f and said spirits do not have flesh and bones as he had. He then ate the fish.
What do you make of this?
Jesus is not a phantasm. The Greek word is phantasm though spirit is used by one writer instead of phantasm.
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote I think it is pretty plain that Jesus was showing his brothers that the body they saw after his death was the same one he died in.
He was showing them he was not a ghost, a spirit without flesh, but was instead was resurrected from the dead.
I am more curious why he still bore his wounds in his flesh and that Thomas, who witnessed miraculous healings, wanted to touch them to verify it was Jesus.
Hi KW,
Death came to Adam the day [<1000 years]that he sinned and submitted to the serpent's rule.
All living things suffer death and corruption of the body naturally follows.
The god of this earth is the murderer ultimately responsible.In his dominion of darkness sin dwells within men.[Rom7]
They are born with lusts[Jas] and giving into them makes them captives of sin.But the tent flesh has no saviour returning to dust instead salvation of the soul is the plan of God.
[1Peter]Flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of God.[1Cor 15]
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