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Quote It's funny, because I know David thinks there needs to be this order of pastor's, teacher's and so on, but I believe in a non-traditional way, we have that here. I believe we are all brothers, not with one priest or whatever taking the lead.
But the first century congregation had “overseers” or “elders” who took the lead in caring for the flock.
1 TIMOTHY 3:2
“The overseer should therefore be irreprehensible, a husband of one wife, moderate in habits, sound in mind, orderly, hospitable, qualified to teach,”David, this is true.
Back in the first century, in the days of Peter, all the believer's lived together commune-style. When there were too many “believers” there needed to be order and jobs assigned so that everyone got fed, for instance. So that the widows received a fair portion, and so that the money was handled correctly. The church was basically a large family.
The church has changed over the years. We all live in our own houses and have our own property and provisions. But even in HeavenNet there are those who are “elders” and “overseers” in my opinion. Sure, not in the traditional sense, but still, there are those who keep check on the flock. I have felt their protection and concern and guidance. Brother David, YOU have been one of these “overseers”.
Quote (kenrch @ Nov. 14 2007,02:39) Quote (Stu @ Nov. 13 2007,22:46) t8 ++” Joining any denomination means that the truth is already defined and that you need to align yourself to it. This is a form of trusting in man. If a person brings a teaching whether he is of a denomination or not, then a believer is free to listen and judge for themselves by searching scripture to see if it is so.
Here you put on the straightjacket imposed by scripture. What of the freedom to be had outside scripture?
++”It must also be said that we are at different levels of maturity and knowledge of the truth.
Does this, the fact that revelation is different for different people, explain why there are seemingly
2 billion christian churches, one inside each believer’s head?Stuart
Did the first church trust man? The apostles, elders, bishops, pastors, teachers etc.Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:But then to Stu their is NO GOD! So what difference does it make to STU?
You are right, Kenrch, it makes little difference to me… except when Mormons or JWs come to the door to disturb my hard-earned weekend or End Times lunatics cheer nuclear brinkmanship, or catholics tell me what they think I should or shouldn't be allowed to watch on TV, or they want taxpayers' money so they can prostelytise under the guise of social service or discriminate against those they think shouldn't benefit from state funds. I could go on, but you know it all already.Stuart
Mandy and David Why do you still answer this guy, you know what scriptures says about what He is, let me repeat and I will till all understand, that is my mission from now on. I am really tired of them given the Christian on here a hard time. It is not right, but if you all keep on replying He will keep it up. Who does not belief that Jesus came in the flesh is Anti-Christ. So why would you want to commute with Him? I do not get it.
Peace and Love Mrs.
Quote (IM4Truth @ Nov. 14 2007,22:59) Mandy and David Why do you still answer this guy, you know what scriptures says about what He is, let me repeat and I will till all understand, that is my mission from now on. I am really tired of them given the Christian on here a hard time. It is not right, but if you all keep on replying He will keep it up. Who does not belief that Jesus came in the flesh is Anti-Christ. So why would you want to commute with Him? I do not get it. Peace and Love Mrs.
HI Mrs,
I admire your passion and respect your mission.
the only place in scriptures that anti Christ is used is 1 John.
The word is antichristos which means instead-anointed or not endued with the Holy Spirit. This includes fully half of all of my aquaintences, and sadly even some of my family.I not only could not stop communicating with all of these antichrists, I consider it my duty as a Christian to continue to do so.
Somewhere towshab said that 2/3 of the world are antichrists.
He is probably correct. We can not isolate ourselves from these people. Maybe God has sent them here for a reason.
Who knows?You can certainly continue on your mission. But do not trouble or stress yourself unduly over the fact that other people continue to respond to stu and towshab.
Tim
Quote (IM4Truth @ Nov. 14 2007,22:59) Mandy and David Why do you still answer this guy, you know what scriptures says about what He is, let me repeat and I will till all understand, that is my mission from now on. I am really tired of them given the Christian on here a hard time. It is not right, but if you all keep on replying He will keep it up. Who does not belief that Jesus came in the flesh is Anti-Christ. So why would you want to commute with Him? I do not get it. Peace and Love Mrs.
I'm also in agreement. I ask in the name of Jesus Christ that you stop this, now.Stu has some very interesting things to say, in my opinion. I've really enjoyed my chats with him. I talk with him knowing that he does not believe in God. He does have an amazing recall of scripture and knows the bible, no doubt. But he does not believe what he reads. To him, it is a myth and has as much power as the faires at the bottom of his garden. In this way, he is a “non-believer.” However, he has a hope deep in his heart that some of this makes sense. That someone will be able to share with him a creation based proof or evidence that will sway him – he has said himself that is why he is here – to see if there is anything new under the sun in this regard.
Tow is also searching, in my opinion. Trying this on, and that on to see if it fits. He's tried Christianity and NT, and now he is trying the Jewish lifestyle/religion and the OT. Possibly he may give up all together? Perhaps he will also see that in the end, faith is the only thing that saves us.
Talking to both of these men depends on where you are emotionally, physically and spiritually. If you are a “truth seeker” then you don't care where the truth can be found, as long as it can be found. It you are a “faith believer” then you do not need to look for truth, you already have it. Either way, caution must be followed as you entertain other's who do not believe as you. Spiritual discernment is needed to look at evidence and weigh it with what you hold as truth.
Courage is sometimes needed when you find that the truth you hold does not line-up with the evidence you are finding. Courage to face the truth. Courage to face the fear of truth. Courage to change.
God be with us all, and have a joyous day!
MandyMandy I thought you said that others were having a hard time with Tow and Stu, so what happened with that? Now you encourage us to talk with these men? I don't understand?
Peace and Love Mrs.
Sis,
I'm not encouraging anyone to talk with them. I am encouraging those who choose to – to be cautious.I have learned a long time ago that I am not in control of what other's do. I can only tell it as I see it, and then encourage folks to make their own best decision. Otherwise, trying to control other's would send me to drinking at noon!
It just cannot be done. It shouldn't be done. We all have to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling.I will stand alone on Judgement Day. So will everyone else. We need to be prepared with our own answers.
Love you,
MandyI believe this is what I said regarding discussing with Stu and Tow:
Quote Either way, caution must be followed as you entertain other's who do not believe as you. Quote Courage is sometimes needed when you find that the truth you hold does not line-up with the evidence you are finding. –Not3
Please explain where these ones have steered you wrong, or made you question.
Quote (Not3in1 @ Nov. 15 2007,05:38) Stu has some very interesting things to say, in my opinion. I've really enjoyed my chats with him. I talk with him knowing that he does not believe in God. He does have an amazing recall of scripture and knows the bible, no doubt. But he does not believe what he reads. To him, it is a myth and has as much power as the faires at the bottom of his garden. In this way, he is a “non-believer.” However, he has a hope deep in his heart that some of this makes sense. That someone will be able to share with him a creation based proof or evidence that will sway him – he has said himself that is why he is here – to see if there is anything new under the sun in this regard. Tow is also searching, in my opinion. Trying this on, and that on to see if it fits. He's tried Christianity and NT, and now he is trying the Jewish lifestyle/religion and the OT. Possibly he may give up all together? Perhaps he will also see that in the end, faith is the only thing that saves us.
Talking to both of these men depends on where you are emotionally, physically and spiritually. If you are a “truth seeker” then you don't care where the truth can be found, as long as it can be found. It you are a “faith believer” then you do not need to look for truth, you already have it. Either way, caution must be followed as you entertain other's who do not believe as you. Spiritual discernment is needed to look at evidence and weigh it with what you hold as truth.
Courage is sometimes needed when you find that the truth you hold does not line-up with the evidence you are finding. Courage to face the truth. Courage to face the fear of truth. Courage to change.
God be with us all, and have a joyous day!
Mandy
Of course he does!
Just as denominations have some truth. Is the worm winking at you? 
Quote (Not3in1 @ Nov. 15 2007,06:19) Sis,
I'm not encouraging anyone to talk with them. I am encouraging those who choose to – to be cautious.I have learned a long time ago that I am not in control of what other's do. I can only tell it as I see it, and then encourage folks to make their own best decision. Otherwise, trying to control other's would send me to drinking at noon!
It just cannot be done. It shouldn't be done. We all have to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling.I will stand alone on Judgement Day. So will everyone else. We need to be prepared with our own answers.
Love you,
Mandy
Not me! Jesus will be in front of me pleading my case.
Quote (kenrch @ Nov. 15 2007,11:06) Quote (Not3in1 @ Nov. 15 2007,06:19) Sis,
I'm not encouraging anyone to talk with them. I am encouraging those who choose to – to be cautious.I have learned a long time ago that I am not in control of what other's do. I can only tell it as I see it, and then encourage folks to make their own best decision. Otherwise, trying to control other's would send me to drinking at noon!
It just cannot be done. It shouldn't be done. We all have to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling.I will stand alone on Judgement Day. So will everyone else. We need to be prepared with our own answers.
Love you,
Mandy
Not me! Jesus will be in front of me pleading my case.
Actually you will be standing in front of Jesus on that Day. He will not be our mediator at that time, he will be our Judge.Quote (david @ Nov. 15 2007,10:45) Quote Courage is sometimes needed when you find that the truth you hold does not line-up with the evidence you are finding. –Not3
Please explain where these ones have steered you wrong, or made you question.
I was mainly referring to when I found out that the Trinity wasn't true back in 2003. It took courage to leave what I had been taught all my life.Quote (Not3in1 @ Nov. 15 2007,11:19) Quote (kenrch @ Nov. 15 2007,11:06) Quote (Not3in1 @ Nov. 15 2007,06:19) Sis,
I'm not encouraging anyone to talk with them. I am encouraging those who choose to – to be cautious.I have learned a long time ago that I am not in control of what other's do. I can only tell it as I see it, and then encourage folks to make their own best decision. Otherwise, trying to control other's would send me to drinking at noon!
It just cannot be done. It shouldn't be done. We all have to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling.I will stand alone on Judgement Day. So will everyone else. We need to be prepared with our own answers.
Love you,
Mandy
Not me! Jesus will be in front of me pleading my case.
Actually you will be standing in front of Jesus on that Day. He will not be our mediator at that time, he will be our Judge.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.Unless Jesus is God?
Scripture says Jesus will separate the sheep from the goats. Will Jesus do this from a great white thrown?
Quote (kenrch @ Nov. 16 2007,07:34) Quote (Not3in1 @ Nov. 15 2007,11:19) Quote (kenrch @ Nov. 15 2007,11:06) Quote (Not3in1 @ Nov. 15 2007,06:19) Sis,
I'm not encouraging anyone to talk with them. I am encouraging those who choose to – to be cautious.I have learned a long time ago that I am not in control of what other's do. I can only tell it as I see it, and then encourage folks to make their own best decision. Otherwise, trying to control other's would send me to drinking at noon!
It just cannot be done. It shouldn't be done. We all have to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling.I will stand alone on Judgement Day. So will everyone else. We need to be prepared with our own answers.
Love you,
Mandy
Not me! Jesus will be in front of me pleading my case.
Actually you will be standing in front of Jesus on that Day. He will not be our mediator at that time, he will be our Judge.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.Unless Jesus is God?
Scripture says Jesus will separate the sheep from the goats. Will Jesus do this from a great white thrown?
Actually if you hold all of this to be true the judgment of Rev 20:12 is not for Christians, it is for people who after the 'second coming' during the 1000 years.
==========================================
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.Mat 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
==========================================Beyond that, earlier manuscripts of Rev 20:12 do not have 'theos' but 'thronos'.
Finally from your bible
Joh 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
Quote (Towshab @ Nov. 17 2007,01:21) Quote (kenrch @ Nov. 16 2007,07:34) Quote (Not3in1 @ Nov. 15 2007,11:19) Quote (kenrch @ Nov. 15 2007,11:06) Quote (Not3in1 @ Nov. 15 2007,06:19) Sis,
I'm not encouraging anyone to talk with them. I am encouraging those who choose to – to be cautious.I have learned a long time ago that I am not in control of what other's do. I can only tell it as I see it, and then encourage folks to make their own best decision. Otherwise, trying to control other's would send me to drinking at noon!
It just cannot be done. It shouldn't be done. We all have to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling.I will stand alone on Judgement Day. So will everyone else. We need to be prepared with our own answers.
Love you,
Mandy
Not me! Jesus will be in front of me pleading my case.
Actually you will be standing in front of Jesus on that Day. He will not be our mediator at that time, he will be our Judge.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.Unless Jesus is God?
Scripture says Jesus will separate the sheep from the goats. Will Jesus do this from a great white thrown?
Actually if you hold all of this to be true the judgment of Rev 20:12 is not for Christians, it is for people who after the 'second coming' during the 1000 years.
==========================================
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.Mat 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
==========================================Beyond that, earlier manuscripts of Rev 20:12 do not have 'theos' but 'thronos'.
Finally from your bible
Joh 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
Well I'm glad I'm a Christian, how about you? OK, Whatever! For some reason I always thought that God was the Judge and Jesus our lawyer.
I never did do a study on it and to be honest am not worried about it, How about you? Just wondering TOW do you believe there is a resurrection? I mean after your messiah comes of course. What happens to the dead do they just cease to exist?
1. According to my religion, which I will not state, Jesus was the son of God. Not God Himself.
2. Also Jesus existed in the beginning, forever in fellowship with God. God Created Him and therefore He is not God.
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