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Dan 7:27 And the kingdom and the dominion, and the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven, shall be given to the “people of the saints” of the Most High: his kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.
I can remember when the pastor called the congregation saints. It just didn't sit well with me then and even now! I really don't think that I belong in the same category as the apostles or even a missionary living in a mud hut for the preaching of the gospel.
So these “people of the saints” are they not of the 144k?
That's the way I see it but that's just speculation on my part.
I would welcome ANY comments or even ideas.
Hi Kenrch,
You should be among them and sure that you are. They are the sons of God. That is how God sees his children, made holy in His sight by the Robe of righteousness of JesusQuote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 22 2006,04:31) Hi Kenrch,
You should be among them and sure that you are. They are the sons of God. That is how God sees his children, made holy in His sight by the Robe of righteousness of Jesus
Dan 7:27 And the kingdom and the dominion, and the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven, shall be given to the “people of the saints of the Most High:” his kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.If we know God then we are saints? I don't know about anyone else but I haven't raised any from the dead lately.
Or even healed anyone. Would not a saint be able to perform works such as these. If all are saints then who are the people of the saints in the above scripture?Not everyone will be spirit beings some (most) will have a new fleshly “holy” bodies. Isn't this the “new” creation of God? Flesh and spirit?
Hi kenrch,
I think many people confuse the catholic view of saints with the biblical view.The catholics elevate those they choose from among their flock who are overtly religious, indulge in self abasement or have devotion to man, or church doctrine to such status, making sure they include some from every land for political reasons. And they “prove” then to be saints by praying to them and if they seem to get an answer confirm they must be in heaven- monstrous folly.
The sons of God are ordinary folk who are led by the Spirit of God and love his ways.
You should take opportunities to pray for the sick and if you are in Christ you will see him working with you. Only those in Christ will have the new heavenly bodies in the millenial kingdom ruling with Christ on earth and restoring order on earth.
Quote I can remember when the pastor called the congregation saints. It just didn't sit well with me then and even now! I really don't think that I belong in the same category as the apostles or even a missionary living in a mud hut for the preaching of the gospel. So these “people of the saints” are they not of the 144k?
Yes, they are kenrch. You are right. They are the annointed Christians who receive the kingdom.
Saints is just a word that means “holy ones.”Quote I think many people confuse the catholic view of saints with the biblical view.
Agreed. That's why I think “holy ones” is a better rendering than “saints.” People have the wrong view of what saints are. No one is without sin. Saints don't have halo's. That's from paganism.
The holy ones you mentioned are those who are annointed to be joint heirs with Christ (who is the holy one of God; Mark 1:24; Rev. 3:7, JB) of God's kingdom.david
Quote (david @ Oct. 22 2006,19:51) Quote I can remember when the pastor called the congregation saints. It just didn't sit well with me then and even now! I really don't think that I belong in the same category as the apostles or even a missionary living in a mud hut for the preaching of the gospel. So these “people of the saints” are they not of the 144k?
Yes, they are kenrch. You are right. They are the annointed Christians who receive the kingdom.
Saints is just a word that means “holy ones.”
Hi david,
It is the sanctifying work of God by the Spirit and the Word that changes men who are saved and perfects them. It is a process that makes us holy to be like to the Holy one of God.Psalm 89:18
For the LORD is our defence; and the Holy One of Israel is our king.
Ezekiel 37:28
And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.
Ezekiel 20:12
Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them
John 17:17
Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
Ephesians 5:26
That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
1 Thessalonians 5:23
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Hebrews 13:12
Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered
Romans 11:16
For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
Ephesians 1:4
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Ephesians 5:27
That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish
1 Peter 1:15
But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
2thess 2
13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:“HOLY ONES” MAY BE RENDERED “SAINTS” IN YOUR BIBLES (KJ and others)
DANIEL 7:18
“But the holy ones of the Supreme One will receive the kingdom, and they will take possession of the kingdom for time indefinite, even for time indefinite upon times indefinite.’”
(HOLY ONES RECEIVE THE KINGDOM)DANIEL 7:21-22
““I kept on beholding when that very horn made war upon the holy ones, and it was prevailing against them, until the Ancient of Days came and judgment itself was given in favor of the holy ones of the Supreme One, and the definite time arrived that the holy ones took possession of the kingdom itself.”
(HOLY ONES RECEIVE THE KINGDOM)DANIEL 7:25
“And he will speak even words against the Most High, and he will harass continually the holy ones themselves of the Supreme One. And he will intend to change times and law, and they will be given into his hand for a time, and times and half a time.”DANIEL 7:27
““‘And the kingdom and the rulership and the grandeur of the kingdoms under all the heavens were given to the people who are the holy ones of the Supreme One. Their kingdom is an indefinitely lasting kingdom, and all the rulerships will serve and obey even them.’”
(HOLY ONES ARE GIVEN THE KINGDOM AND RULERSHIP)ROMANS 1:7
“to all those who are in Rome as God’s beloved ones, called to be holy ones: May YOU have undeserved kindness and peace from God our Father and [the] Lord Jesus Christ.”
(SOME ARE CALLED TO BE HOLY ONES)1 CORINTHIANS 1:2
“to the congregation of God that is in Corinth, to YOU who have been sanctified in union with Christ Jesus, called to be holy ones, together with all who everywhere are calling upon the name of our Lord, Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours:”
(BEING A CHRISTIAN DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN YOU ARE A HOLY ONE.)1 CORINTHIANS 6:1-2
“Does anyone of YOU that has a case against the other dare to go to court before unrighteous men, and not before the holy ones? Or do YOU not know that the holy ones will judge the world? And if the world is to be judged by YOU, are YOU unfit to try very trivial matters?”
(HOLY ONES WILL BE JUDGES, IN THE KINGDOM)2 CORINTHIANS 1:1
“Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus through God’s will, and Timothy [our] brother to the congregation of God that is in Corinth, together with all the holy ones who are in all of A·cha′ia:”EPHESIANS 1:1
“Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus through God’s will, to the holy ones who are [in Eph′e·sus] and faithful ones in union with Christ Jesus:”
(BEING A FAITHFUL ONE DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN YOU ARE ONE OF THE HOLY ONES WHO RECEIVES THE KINGDOM. AFTER ALL, THE HOLY ONES ARE RULERS IN THE KINGDOM OF GOD. THEY NEED SOMEONE TO RULE AND JUDGE OVER. RIGHT?)EPHESIANS 1:18
“the eyes of YOUR heart having been enlightened, that YOU may know what is the hope to which he called YOU, what the glorious riches are which he holds as an inheritance for the holy ones,”
(THE HOLY ONES RECIEVE AN INHERITANCE, THE KINGDOM, WITH CHRIST)EPHESIANS 2:19
“Certainly, therefore, YOU are no longer strangers and alien residents, but YOU are fellow citizens of the holy ones and are members of the household of God,”PHILIPPIANS 1:1
“Paul and Timothy, slaves of Christ Jesus, to all the holy ones in union with Christ Jesus who are in Phi·lip′pi, along with overseers and ministerial servants:”
(JUST BECAUSE YOU'RE AN OVERSEER OR ELDER OR DEACON DOESN'T MEAN YOU ARE ONE OF THE HOLY ONES WHO RECEIVE THE KINGDOM)COLOSSIANS 1:1-2
“Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus through God’s will, and Timothy [our] brother to the holy ones and faithful brothers in union with Christ at Co·los′sae: May YOU have undeserved kindness and peace from God our Father.”
(AGAIN, JUST BECAUSE YOU'RE A FAITHFUL BROTHER DOESN'T AUTOMATICALLY MAKE YOU A HOLY ONE OR SAINT. THE HOLY ONES HAVE A SPECIAL PRIVILEGE OF RULING IN GOD'S KINGDOM OVER MANKIND)2 THESSALONIANS 1:10
“at the time he comes to be glorified in connection with his holy ones and to be regarded in that day with wonder in connection with all those who exercised faith, because the witness we gave met with faith among YOU.”HEBREWS 6:10
“For God is not unrighteous so as to forget YOUR work and the love YOU showed for his name, in that YOU have ministered to the holy ones and continue ministering.”
(A DISTINCITION. GOD WON'T FORGET THE LOVE AND WORK IN THAT THEY MINISTERED TO THE “HOLY ONES.”)HEBREWS 13:24
“Give my greetings to all those who are taking the lead among YOU and to all the holy ones. Those in Italy send YOU their greetings.”
(ANOTHER DISTINCITION)REVELATION 11:18
“But the nations became wrathful, and your own wrath came, and the appointed time for the dead to be judged, and to give [their] reward to your slaves the prophets and to the holy ones and to those fearing your name, the small and the great, and to bring to ruin those ruining the earth.””DAVID
Quote It is the sanctifying work of God by the Spirit and the Word that changes men who are saved and perfects them. It is a process that makes us holy to be like to the Holy one of God. Quote 1 Peter 1:15
But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
It should be remembered that “holy” is just a word that means “clean”–spiritually, morally, physically, clean. Clean in all ways possible.
We are all to imitate our heavenly Father. “Holy holy holy is Jehovah of armies,” the Bible says.
But those who are designated as Holy ones and who receive the kingdom. They have a distinct job and are given special privileges.
These are the ones who recieve the kingdom, as noted in scripture above. They are the ones who along with Christ, judge the world, as noted above, in scripture.david
I guess I'd also like to add that in the Bible they are referred to as holy ones (“Saints” in KJ and some other Bibles) WHILE THEY ARE ON EARTH. They don't have to die to be called holy ones. Peter says they must be holy because God is holy. (1Pe 1:15, 16; Le 11:44) All the spiritual brothers of Christ in the congregations are frequently called “holy ones.”—Ac 9:13; 26:10; Ro 1:7; 12:13; 2Co 1:1; 13:13.
Hi kenrch,
David has posted the JW belief that there is a special group called the holy ones among the saved. He has yet to explain how these are chosen. They believe they go to heaven while others among the saved live on earth and their tenure is far less secure. JW doctrine is bizarre folly.david's offerings
“ROMANS 1:7
“to all those who are in Rome as God’s beloved ones, called to be holy ones: May YOU have undeserved kindness and peace from God our Father and [the] Lord Jesus Christ.”
(SOME ARE CALLED TO BE HOLY ONES)1 CORINTHIANS 1:2
“to the congregation of God that is in Corinth, to YOU who have been sanctified in union with Christ Jesus, called to be holy ones, together with all who everywhere are calling upon the name of our Lord, Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours:”
(BEING A CHRISTIAN DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN YOU ARE A HOLY ONE.)EPHESIANS 1:1
“Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus through God’s will, to the holy ones who are [in Eph′e·sus] and faithful ones in union with Christ Jesus:”
(BEING A FAITHFUL ONE DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN YOU ARE ONE OF THE HOLY ONES WHO RECEIVES THE KINGDOM. AFTER ALL, THE HOLY ONES ARE RULERS IN THE KINGDOM OF GOD. THEY NEED SOMEONE TO RULE AND JUDGE OVER. RIGHT?)COLOSSIANS 1:1-2
“Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus through God’s will, and Timothy [our] brother to the holy ones and faithful brothers in union with Christ at Co·los′sae: May YOU have undeserved kindness and peace from God our Father.”
(AGAIN, JUST BECAUSE YOU'RE A FAITHFUL BROTHER DOESN'T AUTOMATICALLY MAKE YOU A HOLY ONE OR SAINT. THE HOLY ONES HAVE A SPECIAL PRIVILEGE OF RULING IN GOD'S KINGDOM OVER MANKIND)etc etc
So this somehow says only some are holy ones?
Thus these verses apply only to those holy ones and are no interest to those who miss out!Some will look and look and not see, filling in the gaps in their confusion with rationalisations and human logic. SIGH
“So this somehow says only some are holy ones?
Thus these verses apply only to those holy ones and are no interest to those who miss out!”–Nick.So, I take it you have “no interest” in the scriptures that speaks of the 144,000? No interest? Yet, “all scripture is inspired of God and beneficial.” (2 tim 3:16)
I've never made it seem as though some are missing out Nick. You have made it seem that way.
–Is it not God's right to allow some to have a special role?
–Are you missing our or is it unfair that you weren't born an angel, or perhaps you wish you were Christ?
How unfair that you are so limited. Is that how you feel? –Doesn't God have the right to let some have rulership (for our benefit i might add) while others are ONLY granted EVERLASTING LIFE IN PARADISE AMONG FELLOW WORSHIPPERS OF GOD IN PEACE. How unfair of God?
You try to make it seem that way. You are wrong. It is because of His “UNDESERVED kindness” that you should be given anything at all. We are nothing Nick. You do well to remember that. Anything God gives us, isn't deserved. It is by His mercy and love. God owes you nothing.Quote DANIEL 7:18
“But the holy ones of the Supreme One will receive the kingdom, and they will take possession of the kingdom for time indefinite, even for time indefinite upon times indefinite.’”
(HOLY ONES RECEIVE THE KINGDOM)DANIEL 7:21-22
““I kept on beholding when that very horn made war upon the holy ones, and it was prevailing against them, until the Ancient of Days came and judgment itself was given in favor of the holy ones of the Supreme One, and the definite time arrived that the holy ones took possession of the kingdom itself.”
(HOLY ONES RECEIVE THE KINGDOM)DANIEL 7:25
“And he will speak even words against the Most High, and he will harass continually the holy ones themselves of the Supreme One. And he will intend to change times and law, and they will be given into his hand for a time, and times and half a time.”DANIEL 7:27
““‘And the kingdom and the rulership and the grandeur of the kingdoms under all the heavens were given to the people who are the holy ones of the Supreme One. Their kingdom is an indefinitely lasting kingdom, and all the rulerships will serve and obey even them.’”
(HOLY ONES ARE GIVEN THE KINGDOM AND RULERSHIP)It's clear and obvious that these “holy ones” spoken of are given “kingdom and rulership.”
Nick cannot dispute this. I think he may not understand what rulership is, or the fact that not everyone needs to be a ruler. That's not how it works in his government or indeed any government in the world. The government has rulers that rule over the people. Not everyone needs to be a ruler because rulers have subjects. Those who make up the kingdom (government) are rulers and they are not the only ones who will be granted life. They are the only ones who are granted certain privileges. It's obvious that a ruler has subjects. If everyone was a ruler, no one is really a ruler, because who do they rule. Hence, Nick avoids that subject.From the scriptures I've just quoted, it's abundantly clear that those holy ones are the ones who receive the kingdom.
Quote 1 CORINTHIANS 6:1-2
“Does anyone of YOU that has a case against the other dare to go to court before unrighteous men, and not before the holy ones? Or do YOU not know that the holy ones will judge the world? And if the world is to be judged by YOU, are YOU unfit to try very trivial matters?”
(HOLY ONES WILL BE JUDGES, IN THE KINGDOM)Nick does not know that the “holy ones” will judge the world, apparently. They are given a special privilege, one that God reserves for them. God is not holding anything back from us. He has promised the best things imaginable for us–perfect health, perfect bodies, endless life in paradise among fellow worshippers of Jehovah God. Yet, God reserves the right and has the right, does he not to select a little flock to have a certain special responsibility. One of those responsibilities involves judging. We will be judged by our peers, people who experienced the same hardships we did on earth. Hence, no one can say they were judged unfairly. They were judged by people who faced every conceivable trial, just like them.
Quote ROMANS 1:7
“to all those who are in Rome as God’s beloved ones, called to be holy ones: May YOU have undeserved kindness and peace from God our Father and [the] Lord Jesus Christ.”
(SOME ARE CALLED TO BE HOLY ONES)1 CORINTHIANS 1:2
“to the congregation of God that is in Corinth, to YOU who have been sanctified in union with Christ Jesus, called to be holy ones, together with all who everywhere are calling upon the name of our Lord, Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours:”
(BEING A CHRISTIAN DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN YOU ARE A HOLY ONE.)EPHESIANS 1:1
“Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus through God’s will, to the holy ones who are [in Eph′e·sus] and faithful ones in union with Christ Jesus:”
(BEING A FAITHFUL ONE DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN YOU ARE ONE OF THE HOLY ONES WHO RECEIVES THE KINGDOM. AFTER ALL, THE HOLY ONES ARE RULERS IN THE KINGDOM OF GOD. THEY NEED SOMEONE TO RULE AND JUDGE OVER. RIGHT?)EPHESIANS 1:18
“the eyes of YOUR heart having been enlightened, that YOU may know what is the hope to which he called YOU, what the glorious riches are which he holds as an inheritance for the holy ones,”
(THE HOLY ONES RECIEVE AN INHERITANCE, THE KINGDOM, WITH CHRIST)PHILIPPIANS 1:1
“Paul and Timothy, slaves of Christ Jesus, to all the holy ones in union with Christ Jesus who are in Phi·lip′pi, along with overseers and ministerial servants:”
(JUST BECAUSE YOU'RE AN OVERSEER OR ELDER OR DEACON DOESN'T MEAN YOU ARE ONE OF THE HOLY ONES WHO RECEIVE THE KINGDOM)COLOSSIANS 1:1-2
“Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus through God’s will, and Timothy [our] brother to the holy ones and faithful brothers in union with Christ at Co·los′sae: May YOU have undeserved kindness and peace from God our Father.”
(AGAIN, JUST BECAUSE YOU'RE A FAITHFUL BROTHER DOESN'T AUTOMATICALLY MAKE YOU A HOLY ONE OR SAINT. THE HOLY ONES HAVE A SPECIAL PRIVILEGE OF RULING IN GOD'S KINGDOM OVER MANKIND)HEBREWS 13:24
“Give my greetings to all those who are taking the lead among YOU and to all the holy ones. Those in Italy send YOU their greetings.”
(ANOTHER DISTINCITION)Nick, I wonder what you think of that. I'm not sure you've yet mentioned it. If these holy ones receive the kingdom, and you're one of these holy ones and everyone who is a Christian or true Christian is a holy one….whom do they rule over?
Please answer that question. I'm truly curious.david
HEBREWS 6:10
“For God is not unrighteous so as to forget YOUR work and the love YOU showed for his name, in that YOU have ministered to the holy ones and continue ministering.”Nick:
Quote So this somehow says only some are holy ones? Nick, do you think it says everyone is a holy one? It doesn't. There are those who have God's favor because they ministered to the holy ones.
Quote Some will look and look and not see, filling in the gaps in their confusion with rationalisations and human logic. SIGH Doesn't that scripture say that God won't forget you, who have ministered to the holy ones. You've worked and shown love for the “holy ones.” So God isn't unrighteous as to forget the work and love you've shown towards Him in doing this.
Clearly, God won't forget these people. God will be good to them. But are they included in the “holy ones” that they themselves minister to?MATTHEW 25:37-40
“Then the righteous ones will answer him with the words, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty, and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and receive you hospitably, or naked, and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to you?’ And in reply the king will say to them, ‘Truly I say to YOU, To the extent that YOU did it to one of the least of these my brothers, YOU did it to me.’”
HEBREWS 6:10
“For God is not unrighteous so as to forget YOUR work and the love YOU showed for his name, in that YOU have MINISTERED TO THE HOLY ONES and continue ministering.”DAVID
HEBREWS 2:11
“For both he who is sanctifying and those who are being sanctified all [stem] from one, and for this cause he is not ashamed to call them “brothers,””These ones who have been sancified (made holy, or held as holy) are Jesus brothers. They can be called Jesus brothers because they have been made holy. They are holy ones, clean spiritually.
MATTHEW 25:37-40
“Then the righteous ones will answer him with the words, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty, and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and receive you hospitably, or naked, and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to you?’ And in reply the king will say to them, ‘Truly I say to YOU, To the extent that YOU did it to one of the least OF THESE MY BROTHERS, YOU did it to me.’”“[God] saved us and called us with a holy calling, not by reason of our works, but by reason of his own purpose and undeserved kindness.” (2 Timothy 1:9)
A holy one is sanctified by virtue of Jehovah’s calling, according to the undeserved kindness of God and in harmony with His purpose.
Holy ones of the Christian congregation are parties to “a new covenant.” The shed blood of Jesus Christ validates this covenant and sanctifies its participants.
HEBREWS 9:15
“So that is why he is a mediator of a new covenant, in order that, because a death has occurred for [their] release by ransom from the transgressions under the former covenant, THE ONES WHO HAVE BEEN CALLED might receive the promise of the EVERLASTING INHERITANCE.”What is their inheiritance? What are they heirs of?
ROMANS 8:17
“If, then, we are children, we are also heirs: heirs indeed of God, but joint heirs with Christ, provided we suffer together that we may also be glorified together.”These are the ones that will be joint heirs with Christ.
Christ:
DANIEL 7:13, 14:
“With the clouds of the heavens someone like a son of man [Jesus Christ; see Mark 14:61, 62] happened to be coming; and to the Ancient of Days [Jehovah God] he gained access, and they brought him up close even before that One. And to him [to Jesus Christ] there were given rulership and dignity and kingdom, that the peoples, national groups and languages should all serve even him.”Holy ones:
DANIEL 7:18
“But the holy ones of the Supreme One will receive the kingdom, and they will take possession of the kingdom for time indefinite, even for time indefinite upon times indefinite.’”
DANIEL 7:22
“until the Ancient of Days came and judgment itself was given in favor of the holy ones of the Supreme One, and the definite time arrived that the holy ones took possession of the kingdom itself.”Going back to Romans 8:17, those who are joint heirs with Christ, are joint heirs of the kingdom. Co-rulers with Christ. They will be glorified with Christ.
david
Quote “[God] saved us and called us with a holy calling, not by reason of our works, but by reason of his own purpose and undeserved kindness.” (2 Timothy 1:9) Regarding this “holy calling,” here are some other references:
PHILIPPIANS 3:14
“I am pursuing down toward the goal for the prize of the UPWARD CALL of God by means of Christ Jesus.”
1 THESSALONIANS 2:12
“to the end that YOU should go on walking worthily of God who is CALLING YOU TO HIS KINGDOM AND GLORY.”
HEBREWS 3:1
“Consequently, HOLY BROTHERS, partakers of the HEAVENLY CALLING, consider the apostle and high priest whom we confess—Jesus.”Certain ones, a select few, these holy ones, whom Kenrch believes may be the 144,000 have a calling, an “upward call,” a “heavenly calling,” a “calling to his kingdom.”
So, Kenrch, you began this thread. What do you think?
Quote (david @ Oct. 22 2006,23:27) Quote “[God] saved us and called us with a holy calling, not by reason of our works, but by reason of his own purpose and undeserved kindness.” (2 Timothy 1:9) Regarding this “holy calling,” here are some other references:
PHILIPPIANS 3:14
“I am pursuing down toward the goal for the prize of the UPWARD CALL of God by means of Christ Jesus.”
1 THESSALONIANS 2:12
“to the end that YOU should go on walking worthily of God who is CALLING YOU TO HIS KINGDOM AND GLORY.”
HEBREWS 3:1
“Consequently, HOLY BROTHERS, partakers of the HEAVENLY CALLING, consider the apostle and high priest whom we confess—Jesus.”Certain ones, a select few, these holy ones, whom Kenrch believes may be the 144,000 have a calling, an “upward call,” a “heavenly calling,” a “calling to his kingdom.”
So, Kenrch, you began this thread. What do you think?
David,I would think that their are certain ones called to have rank just as their are Archangels and angels. It seems that the statement “people of the saints” would indicate two class of people those called “the saints” and those who are the “people of the saints”. I have never considered myself a saint. A saint in my humble opinion lives their lives for Jesus. Their whole life not just on the web or every sunday but every minute they eat, drink, and LIVE Jesus. Perhaps that's why we don't see the dead being raised and the “greater works” Jesus said we would do. A true saint would have the Holy Spirit LIVING within them all the time and not the occasional vist of the Holy Spirit such as I get.
Quote Dan 7:27 And the kingdom and the dominion, and the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven, shall be given to the “people of the saints” of the Most High: his kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him. Daniel 7:27 (New International Version)
“Then the sovereignty, power and greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven will be handed over to the saints, the people of the Most High. His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all rulers will worship and obey him.'”Quote I would think that their are certain ones called to have rank just as their are Archangels and angels. It seems that the statement “people of the saints” would indicate two class of people those called “the saints” and those who are the “people of the saints”. My Bible translates it as the NIV does above. There is no in “people of the holy ones (saints.)”
DANIEL 7:27 (NWT)
““‘And the kingdom and the rulership and the grandeur of the kingdoms under all the heavens were given to the people who are the holy ones of the Supreme One. Their kingdom is an indefinitely lasting kingdom, and all the rulerships will serve and obey even them.’”So I think I was confused by your question.
Quote Their whole life not just on the web or every sunday but every minute they eat, drink, and LIVE Jesus. Perhaps that's why we don't see the dead being raised and the “greater works” Jesus said we would do.
While Jesus was on earth, he primarily spoke to others about God's kingdom. Since he fortold a great preaching work or our time and commanded his disciples to do so (mat 24:14; mat 28:19,20) perhaps he meant that a similar preaching work would be accomplished on a much greater scale and time.Hi david,
You say
“So, I take it you have “no interest” in the scriptures that speaks of the 144,000? No interest? Yet, “all scripture is inspired of God and beneficial.” (2 tim 3:16)”You have said that they only apply to the holy ones and they are not all are holy ones.
I regard this nonsense and say all who are saved are among those seen as holy by God.
The JW's over-read scripture to imagine a separation here where there is none.
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