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Hi CO,
So to correctly cut scripture you should not cut out the one eternal gospel which was for all, and you should not apply wrongly verses written to the saved by teachers like Paul.1Jo 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
Seek the Spirit and the Word, if what I say is true.
The bible is not a college text book. Indeed if it were it would have faded centuries ago
. We cannot apply mans teachings to the Word of God and have the answer the Spirit (the author) gives.Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
Joh 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
1Jo 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
CO we must become as children relying on our Father and not man. “WE” humans by nature want to know NOW! However unless the Spirit confirms it then it is just that, our nature that gets in the way of the Spirit that guides us to ALL truth.
If the Spirit does not bear witness that which was said I put it on the “back burner” and wait until the Spirit bears witness. I neither say it is true nor do I say it is not true UNLESS the Spirit bears witness. If the Spirit does not want me to know something their is a reason, either it is not true OR I'm simply not ready for that truth.
If what I'm saying does not bear witness with your spirit then put it on the back burner. On the other hand are you relying on man's teaching, or the Spirit and truth.
May the Spirit of Truth guide you,
Ken
Quote (IM4Truth @ July 18 2007,12:54) Chosenone You are so right. God did divorce the Jew's and He is not done with them, He will graft them in again.
We are under a New Covenant. God made the Old Covenant with Israel and the Sabbath was a Sign between them and God.
Peace Mrs.IM4Truth
Hi Mrs. IM4 Truth, thanks for your reply, much appreciated.God Bless.
Hi kenrch.
Thanks for your reply. Yes, you are right about the spirit that leads you to truth. “All is of God” (Ro.11:36) And again I agree with you that God will enlighten us according to His will, He not always teaches us all His ways now, His ways are not our ways, we are Gods achievement (Eph.2:10), not our own, “lest we should boast”. He leads us into unbelief at times for our own good, “Consequently, then, to whom He will, He is mercifull, yet whom He will, He is hardining.” (Ro.9:18) See also Ro.11:7:8, what God did with Israel: What then? What Israel is seeking for, this she did not encounter, yet the chosen encountered it. Now the rest were calloused,
8 even as it is written, God gives them a spirit of stupor, eyes not to be observing, and ears not to be hearing, till this very day.
God is in complete control, what we do to try to gain salvation is futile, “the flesh cannot please God”. Another scripture,
Ro.11:32: For God locks up all together in stubbornness, that He should be merciful to all.
33 O, the depth of the riches and the wisdom and the knowledge of God! How inscrutable are His judgments, and untraceable His ways!
34 For, who knew the mind of the Lord? or, who became His adviser?
35 or, who gives to Him first, and it will be repaid Him?
36 seeing that out of Him and through Him and for Him is all: to Him be the glory for the eons! Amen!
I especially like verse 35 “who gives to Him first, and it will be repaid Him?” (not anything the flesh can do.)Blessings.
Quote (IM4Truth @ July 18 2007,12:54) Chosenone You are so right. God did divorce the Jew's and He is not done with them, He will graft them in again.
We are under a New Covenant. God made the Old Covenant with Israel and the Sabbath was a Sign between them and God.
Peace Mrs.IM4Truth
Where do folks keep getting this “did divorce the Jews”? Scripture, please, and not just words.Thanks!
kejonn, the scripture you asked for: So it came that Israel was divorced, ‘cast away because they did not hearken unto God, and made to be wanderers among the nations’ (Hosea 9:17).
“When a man taketh a wife and marrieth her
then it shall be,
If she find no favor in his eyes because he
hath found some unseemly thing in her,
That he shall write her a bill of divorcement,
and give it into her hand, and send her out
of his house” (Deut.24:1).
God was the “Husband”, Israel was His wife. They are now divorced, but will be reconciled in the future (Ro.11:26).
You're welcome.Blessings.
Quote (chosenone @ July 19 2007,07:38) kejonn, the scripture you asked for: So it came that Israel was divorced, ‘cast away because they did not hearken unto God, and made to be wanderers among the nations’ (Hosea 9:17). “When a man taketh a wife and marrieth her
then it shall be,
If she find no favor in his eyes because he
hath found some unseemly thing in her,
That he shall write her a bill of divorcement,
and give it into her hand, and send her out
of his house” (Deut.24:1).
God was the “Husband”, Israel was His wife. They are now divorced, but will be reconciled in the future (Ro.11:26).
You're welcome.Blessings.
kejonn?Quote (chosenone @ July 19 2007,07:38) kejonn, the scripture you asked for: So it came that Israel was divorced, ‘cast away because they did not hearken unto God, and made to be wanderers among the nations’ (Hosea 9:17). “When a man taketh a wife and marrieth her
then it shall be,
If she find no favor in his eyes because he
hath found some unseemly thing in her,
That he shall write her a bill of divorcement,
and give it into her hand, and send her out
of his house” (Deut.24:1).
God was the “Husband”, Israel was His wife. They are now divorced, but will be reconciled in the future (Ro.11:26).
You're welcome.Blessings.
CO,All neat and tidy, and it helps support your view, but is still does not hold a bit of water. For one thing, God hates divorce (Mal 1:16). So you use the absolute wrong word here.
Israel may be “cast away” for a time, but they are not divorced. That is the whole idea of Hosea, and that is why Hosea was sent to retrieve his harlot wife. His wife left him, not the other way around, just as Israel chose to leave God. Or do you accuse God of a hardened heart?
Mat 19:8 He said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way.
Regardless of their actions, it is never God who hardens his heart, but his people who harden their heart toward God. So if the divorce is real, it is Israel divorcing God, not the other way around. You attribute something to God which is unbiblical. Finally, if you accuse God of “divorcing” Israel, you are saying that God goes against His own Laws. You are on treacherous grounds because if He has “divorced” Israel, they are forever “divorced” and there will be no reconciliation
Deu 24:1 “When a man takes a wife and marries her, and it happens that she finds no favor in his eyes because he has found some indecency in her, and he writes her a certificate of divorce and puts {it} in her hand and sends her out from his house,
Deu 24:2 and she leaves his house and goes and becomes another man's {wife,}
Deu 24:3 and if the latter husband turns against her and writes her a certificate of divorce and puts {it} in her hand and sends her out of his house, or if the latter husband dies who took her to be his wife,
Deu 24:4 {then} her former husband who sent her away is not allowed to take her again to be his wife, since she has been defiled; for that is an abomination before the LORD, and you shall not bring sin on the land which the LORD your God gives you as an inheritance.Quote (kejonn @ July 22 2007,02:48) Quote (chosenone @ July 19 2007,07:38) kejonn, the scripture you asked for: So it came that Israel was divorced, ‘cast away because they did not hearken unto God, and made to be wanderers among the nations’ (Hosea 9:17). “When a man taketh a wife and marrieth her
then it shall be,
If she find no favor in his eyes because he
hath found some unseemly thing in her,
That he shall write her a bill of divorcement,
and give it into her hand, and send her out
of his house” (Deut.24:1).
God was the “Husband”, Israel was His wife. They are now divorced, but will be reconciled in the future (Ro.11:26).
You're welcome.Blessings.
CO,All neat and tidy, and it helps support your view, but is still does not hold a bit of water. For one thing, God hates divorce (Mal 1:16). So you use the absolute wrong word here.
Israel may be “cast away” for a time, but they are not divorced. That is the whole idea of Hosea, and that is why Hosea was sent to retrieve his harlot wife. His wife left him, not the other way around, just as Israel chose to leave God. Or do you accuse God of a hardened heart?
Mat 19:8 He said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way.
Regardless of their actions, it is never God who hardens his heart, but his people who harden their heart toward God. So if the divorce is real, it is Israel divorcing God, not the other way around. You attribute something to God which is unbiblical. Finally, if you accuse God of “divorcing” Israel, you are saying that God goes against His own Laws. You are on treacherous grounds because if He has “divorced” Israel, they are forever “divorced” and there will be no reconciliation
Deu 24:1 “When a man takes a wife and marries her, and it happens that she finds no favor in his eyes because he has found some indecency in her, and he writes her a certificate of divorce and puts {it} in her hand and sends her out from his house,
Deu 24:2 and she leaves his house and goes and becomes another man's {wife,}
Deu 24:3 and if the latter husband turns against her and writes her a certificate of divorce and puts {it} in her hand and sends her out of his house, or if the latter husband dies who took her to be his wife,
Deu 24:4 {then} her former husband who sent her away is not allowed to take her again to be his wife, since she has been defiled; for that is an abomination before the LORD, and you shall not bring sin on the land which the LORD your God gives you as an inheritance.
Hi kejonn.
You misinterpert this scripture. It says that the “man” issues the divorce, “HE” writes the bill of divorcement, not the other way around. Also you say, “it is never God who hardens His heart”, that is true, but He (God) hardens their hearts”, (Ro. 11:7-8) 7 What then? What Israel is seeking for, this she did not encounter, yet the chosen encountered it. Now the rest were calloused,
8 even as it is written, God gives them a spirit of stupor, eyes not to be observing, and ears not to be hearing, till this very day. See? It was God hardening “their” hearts.
Then you say in Deuteronomy that it says once divorced you may not return. You misread this also, it says that if she marries another, and the latter dies, she may not go back to the first.
But God will again take her (Israel) back, see Ro.11:25:32. 25. For I am not willing for you to be ignorant of this secret, brethren, lest you may be passing for prudent among yourselves, that callousness, in part, on Israel has come, until the complement of the nations may be entering.
26. And thus all Israel shall be saved, according as it is written, Arriving out of Zion shall be the Rescuer. He will be turning away irreverence from Jacob.
27. And this is my covenant with them Whenever I should be eliminating their sins.
28. As to the evangel, indeed, they are enemies because of you, yet, as to choice, they are beloved because of the fathers.
29. For unregretted are the graces and the calling of God.
30. For even as you once were stubborn toward God, yet now were shown mercy at their stubbornness,
31. thus these also are now stubborn to this mercy of yours, that now they also may be shown mercy.
32. For God locks up all together in stubbornness, that He should be merciful to all.
Notice verse 26, “And thus all Israel will be saved”.
Notice verse 32, it says “For God locks up all in stubbornness”, see, it is always God in control.Blessings.
Quote (chosenone @ July 21 2007,14:23) Hi kejonn.
You misinterpert this scripture. It says that the “man” issues the divorce, “HE” writes the bill of divorcement, not the other way around. Also you say, “it is never God who hardens His heart”, that is true, but He (God) hardens their hearts”, (Ro. 11:7-8) 7 What then? What Israel is seeking for, this she did not encounter, yet the chosen encountered it. Now the rest were calloused,
8 even as it is written, God gives them a spirit of stupor, eyes not to be observing, and ears not to be hearing, till this very day. See? It was God hardening “their” hearts.
Then you say in Deuteronomy that it says once divorced you may not return. You misread this also, it says that if she marries another, and the latter dies, she may not go back to the first.
But God will again take her (Israel) back, see Ro.11:25:32. 25. For I am not willing for you to be ignorant of this secret, brethren, lest you may be passing for prudent among yourselves, that callousness, in part, on Israel has come, until the complement of the nations may be entering.
26. And thus all Israel shall be saved, according as it is written, Arriving out of Zion shall be the Rescuer. He will be turning away irreverence from Jacob.
27. And this is my covenant with them Whenever I should be eliminating their sins.
28. As to the evangel, indeed, they are enemies because of you, yet, as to choice, they are beloved because of the fathers.
29. For unregretted are the graces and the calling of God.
30. For even as you once were stubborn toward God, yet now were shown mercy at their stubbornness,
31. thus these also are now stubborn to this mercy of yours, that now they also may be shown mercy.
32. For God locks up all together in stubbornness, that He should be merciful to all.
Notice verse 26, “And thus all Israel will be saved”.
Notice verse 32, it says “For God locks up all in stubbornness”, see, it is always God in control.Blessings.
CO,If it were only that simple. I get the feeling from many of your posts that you are anti-semitic. You claim on one hand that “salvation is for all” but you seem to leave Jews out of this “all”. Why are they not included? Are they cursed for being born to the wrong parents? Where is your loving and merciful God in all of this?
You make God out to be some big selfish child who picks and choses who he will save. “Well, they didn't do as i say so now I'm giving eternal live to the Gentiles. That will show them.” What happened to John 3:16? Is it now “For God so loved the world, except the Jews”?
Actually, Romans 11:7-8 should be a lesson for you. It is a warning to all people that they too can be like the Jews, who had the privilege to be God's chosen people but abused it to go their own way. Other people can do the same thing by choosing to reject God just as he Jews did. Be thankful that God chose to turn to the Gentiles and bring salvation because of the hardness of the Jews' hearts.
Also, the object of Romans 11 is to show just why salvation has come to the Gentiles. All Jews have the opportunity to turn just as Gentiles, it is not kept from them. But you missed some verses in Romans 11
Rom 11:19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.”
Rom 11:20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;
Rom 11:21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.
Rom 11:22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God's kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.See verses 21-22. Kinda goes against your “universalist” attitude, eh?
Now, back to your interpretation. Yes, man writes the bill of divorcement, but you claim God divorced Israel. He is the man here. Since God hates divorce, and he has made laws saying that if the “bride” that is divorced runs to another after the divorce and marries the “world” that they cannot be reconciled.
Rather, Israel is playing the harlot but there is no divorce on HIS part. This is evident in Hosea 2:2. Israel has played the harlot and has thus dissolved the marriage. But you claim it was God that divorced them. Not so. That is why God will take them back in time — because He has not written the bill of divorcement.
I do not misread Deuteronomy, you do. You focus on the death component only and gloss over the other. Let me show it again.
Deu 24:3 and if the latter husband turns against her and writes her a certificate of divorce and puts it in her hand and sends her out of his house, or if the latter husband dies who took her to be his wife,
In this case, the “latter husband” would be the world. If God divorced Israel, the world could then “divorce” Israel if they turned back to God because the world world would find no favor in Israel.
However, if the action is all on Israel, then Hosea 2 shows the results. God will take them back. It is Israel who played the harlot and Israel who will have to return to God. God will take her back. This cannot be possible if He actually divorced her.
Again, please be careful of attributed something of God which He hates (divorce). We turn away, the Israelites turned away. God allows this but He does not turn away.
I am saddened by writing this post, as I am any I write in response to you. You will reject everything written because you have determined in your heart that salvation is for all (except for the Jews) regardless of their lifestyle and choices. I really do not know why you bother to read the Bible at all. The only thing I can figure is you do so to twist scripture and cheapen everything God has done.
If this post seems harsh to you, sorry. The Apostles were imprisoned or died preaching the gospel of Christ. There have also been many who have been imprisoned or killed in other countries for spreading the gospel ever since. Even still today! And you make it appear that none of this was necessary because all people are saved (except the Jews) anyways. You dishonor the sacrifice these people have made.
krjonn.
How do you get from my post that I said, “everyone except the Jews will be saved”? Its there in black and white, Ro. 11:26 ::And thus all Israel will be saved”. These are the Jews. I can't possibly see how you accuse me of saying something I haven't said, have a look, its in the previous post. “Do not bare false witness”.
You should feel bad about your post, your mind is made up, you will not acknowledge scripturel truth.Blessings.
CO,
Not just this post. It is something I've discerned after reading many of your posts. And I am not ashamed because I don't feel bad about standing up for my savior.
BTW, please stop using this “false witness” accusation. It does not apply to you.
Exodus 20:16 – “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.”
10 Commandments, for the Jews. By you own constant admission, you do not live under the Law.
kejonn.
Again, just “something you discern after reading many of my posts”. As usual, just a general opinion, no proof of these 'posts'. If you would be kind enough to just quote the statement I made, it will be in one of my posts, then you might have some credibility, otherwise, your accusations are false, and deserve no attention.THEY WILL NOT TOLERATE SOUND TEACHING
A. E. KnochIT IS WRITTEN concerning these last days that the leaders of religious movements will not tolerate sound teaching. This should always be borne in mind in the search for truth. Error has gained such a grip on us that it is often called “the truth,” and the truth is denounced by calling it such names as “speculation,” “gnosticism,” “heresy,” and many other false terms, simply because men cannot bear even to think of it as truth. The thought that they have been teaching error all their lives is intolerable. Have their great and good men been wrong? Has Christendom been wrong
for centuries? All of these questions, intended to make the truth intolerable to others, only show that those who utter them are included in this Scripture. Beware of them!Bear with intolerable doctrines. Search the Scriptures to see if such things may not be so. The fact that a doctrine seems intolerable does not prove it to be wrong. Rather, it proves that it may be right. Here is a valuable way-mark from the spirit of God.
In my early days I was warned against many great truths, as so bad that they should not even be considered. The “non-eternity heresy” was spoken of as an intolerably false doctrine. So with others. Only constant and intimate contact with the Scriptures has enabled me to overcome my aversion to them. The “intolerable” teaching has proved to be the most glorious truth. Give good heed to intolerable truths, but beware of those who ridicule and denounce them. Cleave to faith in the written Word alone.
Blessings.
kejonn.
Again and again, show me the “unsound teachings” you struggle with. You are so clever at avoiding truth, just attacking with general accusations, your credibility is sinking. You need to address the quote to which you are using as your accusation.Blessings.
Quote (chosenone @ July 22 2007,00:45) kejonn.
Again and again, show me the “unsound teachings” you struggle with. You are so clever at avoiding truth, just attacking with general accusations, your credibility is sinking. You need to address the quote to which you are using as your accusation.Blessings.
CO,Did I say “your” unsound teaching? See, you read too much into statements. Just like the gnostic comment. Are you paranoid? Perhaps conviction is telling you that I am speaking of you. Who knows. All I said was that I struggle with unsound teaching. It can be from anyone. I've done a bit myself while in the flesh so I know I can be guilty of unsound teaching as the next person.
And don't tell me my credibility is sinking. In your eyes maybe it is, but I was not sent to please men.
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