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Hi,
I have been hearing about, “Come out of her my people” in Rev 18:4 that it is related to the institutional churches and that the institutional church/organised religion is “Babylon”. Plagues are promised for those staying in “Babylon”
Just to explain my circumstances, I started seeking a year ago and have tried 2 churches but felt that there was lots of error mixed with truth and wanted to find only truth. Up to now I have been doing most of my learning by reading lots and lots and checking back to scripture, trying to check scripture with scripture.
I am torn between wanting to fellowship but also being concerned with hearing things that I feel are not scriptural or seem to be scripture taken out of context to support doctrine e.g trinity, pre-trib rapture (144k literal Jewish male virgins) etc.
Also one of the churches I went to something happened that I thought was totally wrong – the main sermon was preaching on calling for the power of the holy spirit, then did an alter call with laying on of hands, then invited/suggested people, if they wanted, to lay down in from of the cross they had at the front of the church.
The other church did sing some of the old time hymns which I enjoyed and sometimes got more out of reading what the hymn was saying than out of the sermon.
Where do you fellowship??
At the present I seem to just fellowship with believers on the internet.
Hi mk,
Few fellow walkers.
Like you I cannot abide good mixed with evil.
But fellowship with the Father and the son is the best
Jn9
35Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God?36He answered and said, Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on him?
37And Jesus said unto him, Thou hast both seen him, and it is he that talketh with thee.
2 John 1:9
9Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
Hi mk,
I do believe few will step outside of their comfort zone and dare to reject the whore.
But I also believe if you do you must cling desperately to the map of the Word.
We are not alone if do so and we share in the life of the vineNick
Just an aside
When I hear some say that we are ordered to assemble together “go to church on Sunday” and if we don't we are disobedient – the verse used to support this is
Quote Hbr 10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Hbr 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some [is]; but exhorting [one another]: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
What I believe the not forsaking the assembling ourselves together is referring to is seeking the Father through the Son – verse 24 is already talking about considering each other.
The word used for assembling is used one other time in the NT for the gathering of the church to Christ
G1997
ἐπισυναγωγή
episunagōgē
ep-ee-soon-ag-o-gay'
From G1996; a complete collection; specifically a Christian meeting (for worship): – assembling (gathering) together.Quote 2 Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [by] our gathering together unto him, It seems that the emphasis has been moved from Seek Father and Son first and fellowship with believers
to fellowship with believers first and while you are doing it seek God and JesusQuote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 15 2008,09:13) Hi mk,
I do believe few will step outside of their comfort zone and dare to reject the whore.
But I also believe if you do you must cling desperately to the map of the Word.
We are not alone if do so and we share in the life of the vine
I am wondering and believe the fear of being deceived, keeps people bound to the whore. They do not understand what the scriptures are saying and believe what the churches tell them :- that if they do not trust “the church” to give them the “correct doctrine” that they will be apostate and go to hell forever, and so they stay in the apostate church.Hi mk,
Indeed.
Seek ye first the kingdom…
Job 3:25
“For what I fear comes upon me,And what I dread befalls me.Meerkat We originally belonged to the Catholic Church from Childhood till my Husband was 47 and I was 46. In the Catholic Church we never read the Bible. We did have a Cath. Bible but the Church did not teach us to read it. We had the Catechism and that is all we needed. I remember teaching our 4 Children the trinity doctrine. One Sunday My Husband came across Mr. Armstrong. He used to say dust of your Bibles and start reading it. We did and we were surprised that the trinity doctrine was false.
We left the Catholic Church and joined the W.W.Church of God. We started to keep the Sabbath and not eating unclean meats. When Mr. and Mr. Tkatch took over they joined with mainstream Christianity and now even believing in the trinity doctrine again. We left in 1994 and have studied at home and God has shown us several truths since then. I do sympathize with you I miss the fellowship also, but I cant bring myself to join any Church. Learning who Antichrist is and the whore keeps me from doing so. We are to seek God's Kingdom and it is Spiritual IMO my Kingdom is not of this world, He told us.
Peace and Love IreneIrene,
Thank you for your reply …….. It is not only my wanting fellowship with like minded believers it is also a concern for those in the churches, and also knowing that the pastors/ministers are looking out for people who will lead the flock astray. So I feel like I should warn but also not feeling strong enough to be thought of as a heretic. When I did try “churchgoing” and mentioned some of what I was thinking I got the implied warning of church discipline, also not being sure that I can explain it and also knowing that a lot do not want to hear.
Quote (meerkat @ Dec. 15 2008,13:52) Irene, Thank you for your reply …….. It is not only my wanting fellowship with like minded believers it is also a concern for those in the churches, and also knowing that the pastors/ministers are looking out for people who will lead the flock astray. So I feel like I should warn but also not feeling strong enough to be thought of as a heretic. When I did try “churchgoing” and mentioned some of what I was thinking I got the implied warning of church discipline, also not being sure that I can explain it and also knowing that a lot do not want to hear.
That is interesting, we too went with our Son to His Church which is a Baptist Church. When Georg approached the Pastor and asked Him about the trinity, He finally said after several visits, lets just agree to disagree. That was the end of that. Our Son does not want to hear nothing what we have to say. So it goes. So many are ignoring the truth, which is so sad. But you cant blame them, the God of this world(Satan) is blinding their eyes. IMO
Peace and Love IreneQuote (Tiffany @ Dec. 15 2008,14:06) Quote (meerkat @ Dec. 15 2008,13:52) Irene, Thank you for your reply …….. It is not only my wanting fellowship with like minded believers it is also a concern for those in the churches, and also knowing that the pastors/ministers are looking out for people who will lead the flock astray. So I feel like I should warn but also not feeling strong enough to be thought of as a heretic. When I did try “churchgoing” and mentioned some of what I was thinking I got the implied warning of church discipline, also not being sure that I can explain it and also knowing that a lot do not want to hear.
That is interesting, we too went with our Son to His Church which is a Baptist Church. When Georg approached the Pastor and asked Him about the trinity, He finally said after several visits, lets just agree to disagree. That was the end of that. Our Son does not want to hear nothing what we have to say. So it goes. So many are ignoring the truth, which is so sad. But you cant blame them, the God of this world(Satan) is blinding their eyes. IMO
Peace and Love Irene
Yes, the thing is they think exactly the same …………. anyone who is deceived will not believe they are deceived ………..Quote (meerkat @ Dec. 15 2008,08:36) I am torn between wanting to fellowship but also being concerned with hearing things that I feel are not scriptural or seem to be scripture taken out of context to support doctrine e.g trinity, pre-trib rapture (144k literal Jewish male virgins) etc.
Hi Meerkat,Some may be surprised at my reply here….
If you are currently in a church, and it's a basic Christian church, I wouldn't leave her…..
Mother church is not the whore! Good Lord. I don't know what all these guys are talking about. A good church is good for the soul. It equips you so that you can go out and spread the gospel. The fellowship soothes the soul and gives you a base to draw from. Don't leave her…..
I've come full circle on this topic. I left the church (where I was really involved) over the topic of the Trinity. I wanted to be true to God, and what I felt he revealed to me. I didn't want to support false doctrine! I didn't want to be a apart of those who didn't know OR care (my read) about who and what God was. I didn't want to worship Jesus as God when he wasn't! On and on……
My advice, for what it's worth, stay.
Spit out the seeds, and keep the fruit.
It is possible to grow and love God, and still go to church.Fellowship is important. Because we cannot see God, or even hear God, we need our brother's and sister's in the Lord. We need to hear the Word preached every Sunday (or Saturday). It's a good thing. It's not a whorey thing. Keep it in perspective. Trust me, you won't go to hell for going to church every Sunday (regardless of what some tell you here).
God knows your heart, and your heart is for Him.
Much love,
MandyThank you Mandy,
I didn't start seeking while in a church …… I was drawn by God to search and seek the scriptures prior to thinking I “should attend church” I guess I need to think a bit more ……. I am caught between being a bit turned off by the sunday church services being very ritualised, and knowing that others do not want to hear what I believe, and wanting to meet people physically who think how I do. For me fellowship is about saying, being what you really feel, but the church recommended to me I get the feeling it is about being christian because they are told to be one by other christians and just believing the doctrine because thats what pastor says. However the people are mostly very nice people ……………….. and from there I feel concerned for them.
Sorry, Meerkat, I was under the impression that you were already a churchgoer!
Speaking from experience, you will never find a body of believers who believe just as you do (you can't even find that here). Every church will have it's rules and regs to follow (obey). But you can choose which bits are for you, and which bits you throw away. I think there is a wonderful trade-off in fellowship if you are able to do this. I am speaking from a place of regret, you must realize. I wish I would have been able to do that before disfellowshiping myself. It's not too late for me, and I am seeking fellowship for myself, and my children.
We are born into a Christian culture. Some are born into Islam and other religions. Embrace what you are given; love the one you're with!
God knows we are trying to find Him through it all.
Love,
MandyQuote (Not3in1 @ Dec. 16 2008,04:26) Sorry, Meerkat, I was under the impression that you were already a churchgoer! Speaking from experience, you will never find a body of believers who believe just as you do (you can't even find that here). Every church will have it's rules and regs to follow (obey). But you can choose which bits are for you, and which bits you throw away. I think there is a wonderful trade-off in fellowship if you are able to do this. I am speaking from a place of regret, you must realize. I wish I would have been able to do that before disfellowshiping myself. It's not too late for me, and I am seeking fellowship for myself, and my children.
We are born into a Christian culture. Some are born into Islam and other religions. Embrace what you are given; love the one you're with!
God knows we are trying to find Him through it all.
Love,
Mandy
Mandy! I do wonder if you take all those who do not believe in the trinity for instance, you would get quit a few together. Also I know a few that do not go to Church like we do. Then if you take what Jesus said that only few will find it. The road is steep and it is. Knowing who started the Catholic Church and all Sister Churches that came out of Her, I have a problem joining one. IMO So it is up to the individual I guess what to do. I will not judge.
Peace and Love IreneQuote (Not3in1 @ Dec. 16 2008,04:26) Sorry, Meerkat, I was under the impression that you were already a churchgoer! Speaking from experience, you will never find a body of believers who believe just as you do (you can't even find that here). Every church will have it's rules and regs to follow (obey). But you can choose which bits are for you, and which bits you throw away. I think there is a wonderful trade-off in fellowship if you are able to do this. I am speaking from a place of regret, you must realize. I wish I would have been able to do that before disfellowshiping myself. It's not too late for me, and I am seeking fellowship for myself, and my children.
We are born into a Christian culture. Some are born into Islam and other religions. Embrace what you are given; love the one you're with!
God knows we are trying to find Him through it all.
Love,
Mandy
Thank you again Mandy,I appreciate your posts, you are helping me sort out what I need/want. Humans do need community and I feel that is what I am seeking, and need to work out how to get to that place. For me I think part of the fellowship I want is discussion and exploring, does it make sense rather than “pastor said so, so its true and if you explore you will be deceived”
The bolded part is especially helpful.
“Speaking from experience, you will never find a body of believers who believe just as you do (you can't even find that here).”
However I am finding it nice to find that some respond to different ones of my thoughts, and even though there may not be agreement, there is discussion and consideration. I actually find some diversity good.
Meerkat,
If it wasn't for HeavenNet, I probably would have been tons more frustrated during my Trinity search.
I have logged many hours here – reading back posts and generally putting in time with various believers. It's a good thing. But it certainly isn't a substitute for physical fellowship and community worship. Not at all.
Nick, one more post and your going to roll over to 30,000 posts!!
Shouldn't there be some sort of fanfair or something?
A free coffee from t8, at least?
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