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Where did Lazarus go when he died? (John 11:11-14) Had he been in heaven, why would Jesus resurrect him?
Jesus said that Lazarus was sleeping. It wasn't literal sleep. But he was unconsious, as in sleep. (Eccl 9:5) And like sleep, a person can be awoken or resurrected from death. But when a person dies, his “thoughts,” KJ, “all his thinking,” NE; “plans,” RS, NAB] do perish.” (Ps 146:4)
In about 10 places in the Bible, we find the phrase “impotent in death.” It seems a person is powerless to do anything, to think, etc in death.There is a lot on this in the hell/sheol/hades/etc threads
Quote (david @ Feb. 12 2006,17:39) Where did Lazarus go when he died? (John 11:11-14) Had he been in heaven, why would Jesus resurrect him?
Jesus said that Lazarus was sleeping. It wasn't literal sleep. But he was unconsious, as in sleep. (Eccl 9:5) And like sleep, a person can be awoken or resurrected from death. But when a person dies, his “thoughts,” KJ, “all his thinking,” NE; “plans,” RS, NAB] do perish.” (Ps 146:4)
In about 10 places in the Bible, we find the phrase “impotent in death.” It seems a person is powerless to do anything, to think, etc in death.There is a lot on this in the hell/sheol/hades/etc threads
I agree with you here David. Many Christians speak of going straight to heaven at death, which is not biblical.When we die we go to sleep in Sheol, until the Resurrections
The dead are totally unconscious and oblivious to time.
10, 100, 1000 of years may past however as far as the dead are concerned, their next moment of consciousness, will be when they are awakened from the sleep of death at their appropriate resurrection.(Dan 12:2) And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life [that is, life in the age to come], and some to shame and everlasting contempt [that is, contempt (judgement) in the age to come].
The scriptures tell us what the dead are doing, sleeping; and where they are doing it, in the dust of the earth!!
Sultan
A lot of material on this subject has been covered in a topic heading of “What is Man”. You may wish to peruse these pages for further information.
Hi all……
You know, just “asking the question” shows there is confusion over this issue, and that people simpy aren't reading (or paying attention) to Scripture.
MANY “believe” they go straight to heaven? WHY do they believe this? Certainly not because they find it in the Bible. They believe it because that's what the(ir) “man-made church” has taught them.
MANY believe as you have all pointed out above…..we “sleep,” is a nice way to put it….awaiting the resurrection. NICE TO SEE THERE ARE THOSE WHO READ THE SCRIPTURES and make the effort to try to understand them. Those who “read,” may not ALWAYS agree on the meaning, but at least they are reading and TRYING to understand……unlike those whose Bibles are gathering dust 6 days a week and only see “action” on Sunday (or Saturday, in some cases).
Hang in there……no one ever said it was gonna be “easy!”
Quote (truebelief4u @ Feb. 12 2006,21:58) Hi all…… You know, just “asking the question” shows there is confusion over this issue, and that people simpy aren't reading (or paying attention) to Scripture.
MANY “believe” they go straight to heaven? WHY do they believe this? Certainly not because they find it in the Bible. They believe it because that's what the(ir) “man-made church” has taught them.
MANY believe as you have all pointed out above…..we “sleep,” is a nice way to put it….awaiting the resurrection. NICE TO SEE THERE ARE THOSE WHO READ THE SCRIPTURES and make the effort to try to understand them. Those who “read,” may not ALWAYS agree on the meaning, but at least they are reading and TRYING to understand……unlike those whose Bibles are gathering dust 6 days a week and only see “action” on Sunday (or Saturday, in some cases).
Hang in there……no one ever said it was gonna be “easy!”
Quote You know, just “asking the question” shows there is confusion over this issue, and that people simpy aren't reading (or paying attention) to Scripture. This is quite an assumption. Because a topic is started you automatically assume that ther is confusion and a lack of scriptural knowledge. I thought that this was a forum where topics were discussed. Please clarify your position before I write further. I'm trying to understand was this an insult or just worded incorrectly. I don't want to jump to conclusions.
ECCLESIASTES 7:9
“Do not hurry yourself in your spirit to become offended, for the taking of offense is what rests in the bosom of the stupid ones.”I would not take his words or mine as an insult.
Quote NICE TO SEE THERE ARE THOSE WHO READ THE SCRIPTURES and make the effort to try to understand them.
I would take that as a compliment. I think he's just frustrated that so many people claim to know it all and are so sure they know they're going to heaven, when they barely even own a Bible. I feel his frustration.Often, I start topics just wanting to know what others think, not because I'm confused. But his point is that if it is something that has to be asked, then there is confusion, as more posts will go on to reveal. Yet, the Bible is clear, and there shouldn't be. Hence, frustration.
I would not take any of this as an insult, but rather, I think he was trying to be complimentary.
david.
Quote (Adam Pastor @ Feb. 12 2006,23:06) When we die we go to sleep in Sheol, until the Resurrections The dead are totally unconscious and oblivious to time.
10, 100, 1000 of years may past however as far as the dead are concerned, their next moment of consciousness, will be when they are awakened from the sleep of death at their appropriate resurrection.(Dan 12:2) And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life [that is, life in the age to come], and some to shame and everlasting contempt [that is, contempt (judgement) in the age to come].
The scriptures tell us what the dead are doing, sleeping; and where they are doing it, in the dust of the earth!!
I agree. We still live when we die.According to Paul we have a body waiting, Revelation agrees showing us souls under the altar that are conscious and crying how long until we can return?
Hi Malcolm,
So is this perhaps the place that Jesus went to prepare for us? Not Hades or Sheol but a special place under the altar of God?I believe it could be, seems like it would be a waiting place, a good place to be in the meantime. But it is evident that it was not completely fulfilling because they were longing to return.
True,
A bit off the subject but what do you make of the 24 elders shown in Rev 4 etc.If they are men why only 24 in heaven? My thought is that they are archangels, princes, sons of God because they are not shown otherwise in heaven as you would surely expect.My thought here only
Could they be two sets of twelve?
12 being the twelve fathers of Israel after whom the tribes are named and 12 being the 12 disciples of Jesus?
Jesus told them they would sit on thrones with him judging the people.
Isn't that what elders did? sit at the gates and judge matters?Hi Malcolm,
He also said we would too[Rev 20.4 and the words of Jesus]What about the timing too. Was not John one of the twelve. Was he seeing himself?Quote (Sultan @ Feb. 13 2006,03:46) Quote (truebelief4u @ Feb. 12 2006,21:58) Hi all…… You know, just “asking the question” shows there is confusion over this issue, and that people simpy aren't reading (or paying attention) to Scripture.
MANY “believe” they go straight to heaven? WHY do they believe this? Certainly not because they find it in the Bible. They believe it because that's what the(ir) “man-made church” has taught them.
MANY believe as you have all pointed out above…..we “sleep,” is a nice way to put it….awaiting the resurrection. NICE TO SEE THERE ARE THOSE WHO READ THE SCRIPTURES and make the effort to try to understand them. Those who “read,” may not ALWAYS agree on the meaning, but at least they are reading and TRYING to understand……unlike those whose Bibles are gathering dust 6 days a week and only see “action” on Sunday (or Saturday, in some cases).
Hang in there……no one ever said it was gonna be “easy!”
Quote You know, just “asking the question” shows there is confusion over this issue, and that people simpy aren't reading (or paying attention) to Scripture. This is quite an assumption. Because a topic is started you automatically assume that ther is confusion and a lack of scriptural knowledge. I thought that this was a forum where topics were discussed. Please clarify your position before I write further. I'm trying to understand was this an insult or just worded incorrectly. I don't want to jump to conclusions.
Hi sultan,
We love your input here and look forward to more.Yes you get plenty of insults here as people find their cherished treasures are as useless as broken toys, and sometimes they start spitting their dummies.
When men rest their faith on something of sand they get angry when that foundation is challenged.
Nobody changes unless they are challenged and that is why we do what we do-to set men free from human prisons and give them hope of a greater light than they now know.
In the process our ignorance is shown too at times and we grow too.
All good fun.
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